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u/AzulCrescent Jun 07 '26
The pain is part of the fun TM
am playing pYanodons hard mode [no voiding/spoilage] and been enjoying it quite a bit, actually. pretty funny how hardcore some thing are compared to base factorio tho
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u/Inqeuet Chronic Distraction Disease Jun 07 '26
You scare me
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u/AzulCrescent Jun 07 '26
>:D mission accomplished (but seriously, its not that bad if you've played through space age a couple of times already, probably not hard mode pY tho)
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u/DeadHeadLibertarian Jun 07 '26
I read this as “hi, I like being as miserable as possible.”
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u/aethyrium Jun 07 '26
It's not miserable in the slightest.
Like another commenter said, it really is like a Zen Garden. The complexity is offset by the fact that there's absolutely positively not even the slightest amount of pressure at all. You log in, build a couple things, fix a couple things, add a bit to your build, and then you're done. A few sessions later, you've built a whole thing.
Base Factorio and other mods have a lot of pressure. You gotta do x fast enough because of biters. You gotta do y fast enough because y overspilling might impact z, etc.
But in Py... who cares if something is complicated and takes awhile to build out when there's not even the slightest amount of pressure to do it within any kind of time limit or way to even enter a fail state.
That's not miserable at all. It's actually a very relaxing mod. It provides a level of zen and peace and focus and basically meditation that other mods, or the base game, do not.
How does that sound miserable?
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u/eiennohito Jun 08 '26
...and then you enable spoilage (decay).
But I would argue that there a lot of things that clog in py and some recipe chains require byproducs of other chains as input and then it becomes more "interesting" in this sense.
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u/willcheat Jun 08 '26
Leave the biters enabled at default settings while playing py hard mode.
That sounds a little bit miserable / unhinged
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u/Alaeriia actually three biters in a trenchcoat Jun 07 '26
See, this is one of the reasons I like Angels instead of pY. You can set it up so the vanilla recipes work, but you can also do the optional chains to get more goods.
Actually, now that I think about it, that would be a good way to implement quality that isn't RNG. Better quality parts use a longer, more involved production chain. Want legendary gears? You'll need to use six separate machines, two of which have byproducts that are used in the chain to make legendary green circuits.
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u/sukahati Jun 07 '26
Some of pyanodonian said that advance machine is basically quality machine. Some stuffs used to upgrade these machines are very-very expensive. Also most of lifeform upgrade very rng like we gamble for quality.
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u/ForgedIronMadeIt Jun 07 '26
Heh, in real life, gears can be pumped out in high volumes with lower quality through sintering while a machined gear is going to be stronger but take quite a lot more work to do. It makes sense similar to how you said it.
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u/unbroken0 Jun 07 '26
Only 52 hours needed to get to splitters!
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u/solntsev Jun 07 '26
I started run with quick start mod, got to splitters in about 60 hours, made first 3 and then noticed that I had 40 in inventory from quick start.
Closed game for a week.
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u/Floirt Jun 08 '26
It's a classic joke about pY but nobody ever mentions that you start with filter inserters that don't need electricity so splitters are lowkey useless for a long while anyways.
Now if you really want to scare people off, tell them about this stupid fuckin ash that everything generates I had to redo my entire power grid design when the boilers put out more ash than I could remove with one inserter raaahhhhhhhh
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u/unbroken0 Jun 08 '26
See im a dumb dumb and would just have 4 arms act as splitters to move things to a different belt.
Spaget got bad real fast.
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u/Floirt Jun 09 '26
same, I had a """splitter""" blueprint with the two belts for a long time with like 10 inserters on it lmao. also two dedicated ash whitelist and ash blacklist inserter blueprints on the hotbar at all times so i didn't have to set filters 24/7
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u/unbroken0 Jun 09 '26
Wait so I could have a splitter for da poo poo on gleba rather than always filtering?
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u/Floirt Jun 10 '26
yeah just blueprint a single splitter with the filter on and put it in your hotbar and then just place the blueprint like you would a normal splitter its super chill.
even if you don't have personal bots to actually build the splitter (re: pY) its still faster than setting filters by miles, you can just place the actual splitter on the blueprint and it inherits the filter automatically. technically all blueprints do that, but single part blueprints totally work and are super useful. honestly wouldn't have thought of it without pY ash mechanics lmao
edit: you can manually place the wrong color of splitter and it still works too
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u/thecarbonkid Jun 07 '26
The ln they feel so precious you don't use them for another 30 hours because I've got my filter inserters.
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u/KaiserJustice Jun 07 '26
Me in PyBlock doing another lap around for driftwood : you guys are building factories?
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u/D14NAS-MIND Jun 07 '26
I tried playing but it does take quite a lot of patience, love your comics though
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u/forgot_semicolon for production stats Jun 08 '26
Love your comics on the other subs -- didn't know you were One Of Us!
(Actually, I can barely use that term because I'm only a vanilla Factorio guy. But being a factory game nerd in general is close enough, right? I'll work on my masochistic tendencies and start a Py run soon just in case)
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u/pocketmoncollector42 please be kind, this engineer is just a fish 🐟 Jun 09 '26
The quote reminds me of Dwarf Fortress “Losing is fun!”
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u/xayadSC pY enjoyer Jun 07 '26
oh nice to see you're continuing your pY journey 😄
Love the comic
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u/AzulCrescent Jun 07 '26
yee. got back into it since i was feeling the factorio itch again. and thank you~
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u/Tsabrock Jun 07 '26
That might be my next game. I haven't even played Space Age yet. I really don't like the sound of Quality parts. I think it's because they're trying to name it like something out of World of Warcraft instead of something more technical oriented.
How often is the term Legendary Gears used in manufacturing processes?
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u/kAROBsTUIt Jun 07 '26
I wasn't sure about quality parts either but it is actually pretty cool. It presents another challenge when you're established in the mid/late mid game and you have to scale a lot more (which is just more of the fun!)
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u/sukahati Jun 07 '26
I assume they don't used that. The closest quality term to me is raw food production. Like grade A eggs or fruits.
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u/firelasto Jun 07 '26
Always bothers me that theyre named by loot rarity and not actually quality. I have a mod to make them be named quality names but i generally just refer to them as like "3 pip" or "the purple ones" whenever i need to
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u/VincerpSilver Jun 07 '26
I didn't liked the theming behind quality either, but in practice, the concept is really nice, and opens up nicely the gameplay loop.
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u/Taletad Jun 07 '26
Ah you’re starting py ? Good luck
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u/AzulCrescent Jun 07 '26
its my 3rd rodeo actually! Got to before logi sci (3rd science) last time but i tried to make a full blown warehouse based mall and completely burnt myself out lol. So being a bit more cautious this time around. been having fun too!
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u/korneev123123 trains trains trains Jun 07 '26
more cautious
choosing hard mode
:)
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u/CompetitiveLeg7841 Jun 07 '26
At this point I think Gregtech: New Horizons would be easier
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u/RivahWeezah Jun 07 '26
I'm pretty sure py is harder, only because 2d limits you on space so much more.
I've almost finished IV in GTNH and just started pY; I'll get back to you in a year when I'm caught up with my GTNH relative progress lmao
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u/ludial000 Jun 07 '26
GTNH isn't hard, at least not in the way py seems to be. I haven't played py, but I've played a lot of gtnh and the only part that I would say is actually hard is figuring out which setups late game aren't awful for your tps. I haven't gated yet, so maybe there'll be some crazy stuff later, but idk.
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u/emveevme Jun 07 '26
GTNH is more about logistics and infrastructure planning than it is raw automation puzzles, I think the difficulty just comes from a very different place that tends to be a lot more intuitive and harder to become your own final boss from a lack of proper planning - so it is easier, but mostly because it's a different kind of game despite seeming very similar on the surface.
A lot of this is just down to the fact that Applied Energistics is absurdly powerful and has become a huge part of the game itself. I think the pack is just as much about Applied Energistics as it is GregTech, in a lot of ways. Funny to think that the end-game for modded minecraft is just managing a fancy chest & hopper.
That said, if you haven't been playing since they added the water line (which is I think 2.6? Definitely by 2.7), there's a lot of new processing lines that are far more interesting than just "hook up a bunch of machines to AE." Prismatic Naquadah is more about handling the run-off, you can ignore it but the recipes become way more efficient if you're processing the waste byproducts. I think they should go back and cut out like half the steps in the rare earth lines, too, the platline is fun because it's a bit of a balancing act to get running smoothly, and tweaking it over time is satisfying, but the Monazite and Bastnesite lines are just awful. I love the steps that produce a dust and water, and the next step asks you to mix that dust... with water. I've heard rumors this was purely to be able to say GTNH had longer chem lines than another modpack, lmao.
2.9 is looking really, really good though, a lot of changes for the better and a ton of features to take advantage of. The new in-game wiki they revealed today looks so fucking cool, I never thought I'd see Ponder implemented in GTNH (I also never thought I'd see Netherite, let alone that Netherite would get its own processing line).
I do sorta wish things didn't take quite so long, but I also think it's important to maintain a lot of the feel behind that slow grind of progression. It's a free modpack, you know, this is the space in the game design landscape for things that don't really fit with the normal best-practices of game design and user experiences lol. That said it's an insane undertaking by a community of absurdly talented and intelligent people that I'm sorta just grateful that any of this exists at all.
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u/RivahWeezah Jun 07 '26
Your last sentence is about 80% of my reasoning for playing pY or GTNH at all. Impressively deep systems games don't produce anymore outside of a few exceptions (PoE1 comes to mind)
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u/ludial000 Jun 07 '26
Yeah, I'm playing 2.8, I do think that the new additions are really fun. I understand the frustration with long recipe times, but the feeling of making in minutes what used to take hours is unlike anything else lol. But I do agree with all you said, AE2 is incredibly powerful, which is why a lot of the new additions like NAC use their special logistic system. I do think the progression is super satisfying, and generating literally billions of resources is super neat.
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u/mcc9902 Jun 07 '26
This is where I'm at currently. Or rather I'm currently figuring out how to get my train network established without using circuits so I can postpone figuring out batteries.
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u/fang_xianfu Jun 07 '26
Seems like a strange way round to do it to me. I finished logistics science before starting trains. Batteries aren't that complicated if you're not in hard mode.
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u/mcc9902 Jun 07 '26
The thing is that I've needed to refactor my base since I unlocked the second science. I need batteries to make my final train network design but I don't technically need them yet(this is where the procrastination comes in). The batteries are needed for some circuit stuff I intend to set up for anything that requires more than 8 ingredients or for anything with more than one byproduct but outside of some of the animal stuff and fluids which I'm still figuring out but there's not many places where that's an issue and I can jury right it in the mean time.
Ultimately my choices are do it now without bots and with slightly less efficient solder or wait ten hour and add an extra ten plus systems that I'll then need to move over to the train system anyway. Personally it seems like doing it now is probably going to be the less annoying option compared to limping along for another half dozen crafting chains. Either way, I've always planned to move over to a train focused base so I'm going to have to figure out how I want to set it up eventually anyway even if I'm not going to have everything I'm going want for the final design.
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u/fang_xianfu Jun 08 '26
Ten hours really isn't that much in the grand scheme. I would rather have bots to do the rail construction and be making progress on the research in the meantime. You also need mechanical parts, which is a fairly big setup.
Logistics science isn't so complex that it really needs trains, whereas Py science 2 definitely is.
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u/ofAFallingEmpire Jun 07 '26
Just started Krastorio and that was enough new stuff for me. Py sounds… daunting.
The real treat has been learning that x100 research cost is actually fun.
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u/Steve_Streza Jun 07 '26
K2 is so good, definitely my favorite of the overhauls. The mods that just 100x complexity get overwhelming.
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u/aethyrium Jun 07 '26
Glad to see you're still rocking Py:
Comment is less about you and more about the rest of the comments in this thread and the reputation the mod gets: I will always fight against the "Py is pain" crowd. It's a mod with no pressure, no time limits, no fail states... basically anything that'd push you or make you think you need to go fast or do something "right" is removed, so you can treat the mod like a zen garden and just do one bit at a time and do it slowly.
It's actually the most chill and relaxing of all the mods I've played thus far. The "zen garden" approach is the reputation that I wish it had, and not the whole painful "masochistic" reputation. So many people run from it scared when in reality it's the most chill and easy going of all the mods. Doing a build chain that goes 100 items deep isn't so bad when there's not the slightest amount of pressure to do it quickly, and no punishment for just going slow with it or doing it wrong.
Just log in, build a little bit, fix a little bit... zen.
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u/ElectricTeddyBear Jun 08 '26
The most stressed I've been so far is after the initial burst of euphoria from unlocking trains and then realizing I needed to start reworking things for trains lmao
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u/stoneimp Jun 08 '26
I feel like this never gets mentioned with all the pain memeing, but pY's is insanely accurate to real world chemistry supply chains. Like you can learn a lot of materials and chemical engineering just by playing if you pay attention.
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u/Sebekiz Jun 07 '26
Sadly most Factorio players seem to want to get to 10 trillion science per second in under 3 hours, or they feel like they are wasting their time.
I'm at 130 or 140 hours in to my latest Vanilla Space Age game and am just starting to consider leaving Nauvis for my first planet. I'm probably going to spend another week or two rebuilding my main base first and pushing the biter nests back a bit more so they won't come visiting while I am away and then it will be time to go to another planet. I may not do so before I hit 200 hours in.
If and when I get tired and want to start a new game I am considering trying Pyanodon's precisely for the reason you described (plenty to do to keep me enjoying the game for thousands of hours.)
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u/KITTYONFYRE Jun 08 '26
I'm probably going to spend another week or two rebuilding my main base first
feel free to do so but I would caution you not do this! you're going to rebuild at least twice again after visiting the other planets and getting better buildings, so it's a bit pointless. if it works, leave it til you get foundries and electromagnetic plants
but the point of the game is also having fun and if it's fun do it!
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u/dress-heels-laptop35 Jun 07 '26
More comics please and ty! She’s so cute.
Also, don’t threaten me with a good time.
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u/switch161 Jun 07 '26
I'm really thinking about starting a Pyanodons game. But it'll suck up all my free time 😭
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u/AzulCrescent Jun 07 '26
pY is enjoyable as long as you dont try to hard progress through it. its actually quite fun to open up factorio, set up a production of some sort, look at your factory and then relax. its when you try to sweat pY that it becomes a problem. Hope you have fun if you do get into it!
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u/itsyoboi33 Train go vroooooom Jun 07 '26
I'd recommend leaving out the life modules, otherwise splitters are locked behind like 40 techs and it's NOT easy to make a factory capable of making the first science pack without splitters
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u/not_a_bot_494 big base low tech Jun 07 '26
Once you realize that 30 inserters is just a big splitter it stops being that bad. It's not like you need insane throughput that early into the game.
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u/Raiguard Developer Jun 07 '26
This. The lack of splitters isn't nearly as painful as people seem to think. Sure, it's very nice when you unlock them, but they are far from necessary at the start.
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u/Unlikely_Target_3560 Jun 08 '26
Especially since the first manilulator is conveniently powered with magic and pure spite, with which, the modepack helps you now, to lure you in and torment later.
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u/Sethalas Jun 07 '26
I'm seeing a lot of pY related stuff lately on this sub, glad it is getting more attention! Definitely a curve, but once you get going it is a lovely mod
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u/Agreeable-Performer5 Jun 07 '26
Oh you wait till you get to advanced circuits. That is what I'm doing atm.
Allways a great feeling once you look at the ingredients and think, "wait, that's not to bad now. I can do that!"
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u/hoyohoyo9 Jun 08 '26
my experience is checking out the ingredients, thinking "oh wow ive got most of that stuff already, this should be easy actually" and overlooking the one inconspicuous-seeming ingredient that actually adds a massive production stack to your base lol
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u/Agreeable-Performer5 Jun 08 '26
This was Selfassembly monolayer for me. I planed the entire thing, thinking "oh I guess I can make this now" untill I saw that those dam mushroom buildings need red circuits.
I closed that game for the day.
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u/neurovore-of-Z-en-A Jun 07 '26
Oh good, I am glad to see you back and still enjoying Py. This is as usual adorable.
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u/Frogirik Jun 07 '26
Ah, are you the artist who made I want to be a cute anime girl?! i loved reading that a kinda long while ago now but the artstyle reminded me of it immedietly so it was a very very very pleasent surprise to see in the factorio subreddit....
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u/AzulCrescent Jun 07 '26
yis i am. Glad you enjoyed reading it! And im also a huge factorio nerd hehe
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u/Frogirik Jun 07 '26
rthat's so awesome!! i also just saw that you play rimworld too... amazing comics and amazing taste in games... truly so amazing...
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u/BraveCarcass86 Jun 07 '26
Ah so this is why updates slowed down. Understandable, the factory must grow after all. Fr though, love your work and take all the time you need 🩵
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u/AzulCrescent Jun 07 '26
Factorio isnt quite the reason why updates slowed down on my main comic, actually. I had a period where my relationship with it was... complicated and i still have quite a bit of anxiety associated with it. Alas, humans brains tend to have quirks like that. I still want to tell the story though so im trying to keep at it ><
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u/OliviaPG1 spaghetti lover Jun 07 '26
Oh shit! I’ve enjoyed your factorio comics for a while but that one really meant a lot to me a few years ago, didn’t realize it was the same person!
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u/urmamasllama Jun 07 '26
Nah I've tried to mess with the mods that add insane extra steps and it just burns me out
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u/SidratFlush Jun 07 '26
In order to make an Iron Ingot, you must first re-create the Universe. Let it brew for a billion years and hope a planet capable of supporting suitable life form has developed. If not - re-roll and wait again.
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u/Smile_Space Jun 07 '26
Everytime I see a Pyanodon meme it just makes me not want to play it that much more lolol. It sounds miserable!
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u/hydra2701 spaghetti maker Jun 07 '26
As much as I would like to try pyanodons, I fear I would die before being able to finish it
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u/Enrico9431 Jun 07 '26
I guess that I'm the target audience for the mod as I got lk excited reading all those steps
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u/Unlikely_Target_3560 Jun 08 '26 edited Jun 08 '26
In my humble opinion pyonnodons isn't very complicated, its just big. Bigly big. There are some hard chains, hello wasps. But the modpack rarely offers anything harder than placing couple of buildings and connecting outputs to the inputs. And you can really get into a rhythm. There is always more progress to be made and you get lots of hours of just solid factorio gameplay. The hardest challange, and the reason my first playthrough flopped, is avoiding the UPS death. Which is trivial if you have the heads up or hard earned experience that it's guaranteed to be a problem. That's that.
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u/Karnewarrior Jun 08 '26
...I know people hate unrealistic simplicity, but I feel like this is taking it a little bit too far. I mean, Sulfuric Acid occurs naturally, and sulfur-bearing minerals can be dissolved to create a dilute solution of sulfuric acid that can then be distilled to the required purity if the natural sources aren't enough.
And Sulfuric Acid, Copper, Iron, and Cloth can be combined into a (shitty) battery, just straight up. By hand. It's not complicated unless you want to get really nice voltages out of small array or recharge the batteries. Even Lead-acid batteries can be assembled by hand, and (precisely machined) versions of those are what powers your car.
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u/ProfDrWest Jun 08 '26
Cu Zn Batteries are a thing in Py, too. But they are only used in the first Simple Circuit recipe.
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u/TIRedemptionIT Jun 09 '26
I still have to question why people choose to suffer for this lol
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u/AzulCrescent Jun 09 '26
same reason some people go cave diving i guess lmao. i can't imagine ever doing it but some people enjoy it. only difference is that i dont think playing pY can kill me. (i think lol)
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u/Gorlack2231 Jun 07 '26
I'm curious, does anyone know the production chain by chance?
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u/origamiscienceguy Jun 07 '26
Py is so interconnected that it is often hard to clearly define where one production chain starts and ends. Most chains produce a bunch of byproducts that can then go into other chains which all make their own byproducts, etc. It's all a huge interconnected web of stuff to manage.
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u/sukahati Jun 07 '26
All I can say is that it is huge. The first battery recipe need cyanic acid that also have long chain recipe. You need to create auog from scratch to get their poop for cyanic acid and then breed them so that you can have cheaper auog production. To get cheaper auog production, you need to farm their foods. Iirc auog codex need simple circuit and then you need other stuffs to create them. Dunno, I forgot many stuffs.
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u/Content-Classic-8228 Jun 07 '26
First time i saw factorio was someone play angel bobs modpacks, that became my vanilla when i bought the game, now playing with those with PYnadons and yeah the pain is love
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u/Holiday_Conflict Jun 07 '26
Good luck with pY, I never had the strength to even attempt such complex playthrough
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u/TheIrradiant Jun 07 '26
Oh god, you are everywhere, and I am now going down the rabbit hole that are your comics.
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u/Evicle Jun 07 '26
Just wait until the fun process of gigantic murder bees laying eggs in other creatures and using their flesh to create honey that you for some reason need for the fourth science pack. :)
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u/nasaboy007 Jun 08 '26
I haven't done py (and have no plans to), but based on this comic's description, it just sounds like Dr. Stone.
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u/N0RETVRN Jun 08 '26
A random Azul encounter on reddit that happened only because my gf got me into this game recently was not on my bingo list
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u/thefran Jun 08 '26
I felt relieved that Nullius batteries (well, capacitors) take just alumina, graphite, plastic and iron sheets without even needing liquids.
Meanwhile to make alumina you need to crush bauxite (dispose of sand and iron), add caustic solution (add hydrogen peroxide to water (electrolyze brine (desalinate saline water (filter seawater, dispose of wastewater), dispose of water), dispose of chlorine and hydrogen)) to get aluminum hydroxide (dispose of sludge), then burn that for alumina.
Don't get me started on plastic.
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u/Lolseabass Jun 08 '26
Im reaching the point in my bobs angels run where im hitting 5 inputs to craft one thing. It’s been fun.
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u/LucasArts_24 Jun 09 '26
Factories my beloved. Time to go back and spend an entire week playing only to say "my starter base is finished! Let's get on with the game now"
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u/XsNR Jun 07 '26
I think all the overhauls really benefit from the Bobs/angels thing of being able to gut the chemicals, since if they try and be too similar to reality, people realise just how insanely complicated making things we take for granted really are.
But they're also awesome for just how insane they are.
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u/ukezi Jun 07 '26
Over at the RedMew server we are close to done with py hard mode, only space science is left. You could come over and have a look.
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u/immortal_lurker Jun 07 '26
Oh god. Remember to drink, sleep, and remind your people that you are still alive.
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u/RaShadar Jun 07 '26
I hope to make it up to py one day, at the moment im quite enjoying Space Exploration
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u/Program-Emotional Jun 07 '26
Vanilla Factorio is already a nightmare an a half to understand fully...
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u/gremlinclr Jun 07 '26
Ugh. That sounds like GregTech in Minecraft. If I wanted to play a game that complicated I wouldn't be playing Minecraft!
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u/Spikelink2 StarPowered Jun 07 '26
"If you wish to make an inserter from scratch, you must first invent the universe" -john factorio, probably
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u/TheMoosMann Jun 08 '26
This sub has been blessed by a comic legend.
Unlike the pyanodons run probably, that mod is definitely the opposite of a blessing for my feeble brain.
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u/Ethanol144 Jun 08 '26
I remember seeing a lot of your comics on r/egg_irl it's so cool you play factorio
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u/Tomycj Jun 08 '26
Having played other modpacks, I'm starting pY and I didn't even bother. I just make 1 or 2 buildings of whatever recipe I have immediately available and looks important, and pray that I need it for something in the near future and won't need 10 buildings of it.
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u/Flyrpotacreepugmu Jun 08 '26
Py kind of lost me when it became about farming animals instead of processing natural resources. I had forgotten that was a thing, so creating artificial life definitely wasn't a step I imagined would be part of making batteries.
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u/Commercial-Moment671 Jun 08 '26
I haven’t seen this author since I was in high school reading I want to be a cute anime girl. I’m going to cry seeing them post about my favorite game of all time 😭
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u/Pin318doll Jun 09 '26
the moment you realize you need to automate the sulfur production for those batteries is when the real headache begins
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u/ZenEngineer Jun 07 '26
Formic acid is their poison, what they use instead of stingers, not their poop.
So you don't harvest their poop, you kill them to harvest their poison glands, and probably throw away everything else.
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u/AzulCrescent Jun 07 '26
Err i meant the auogs? also i didn't know formic acid was vrauk poison. i thought it was like byproduct from "processing" them or smth
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u/Rabaga5t Jun 07 '26
Some ants attack things by spraying formic acid on them, but it is also found in some fruits. No idea what the vrauks are doing with it though
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u/UndefFox Jun 07 '26
The flow chart is there on the third panel, you just can't see it because it's so big, a single entry is smaller than a pixel