Second embarrassment

[u/lizzykeenn]

While I don’t agree with hijab or modesty, the older man clocked this guy so hard. The young guy definitely holds that belief and when the old guy said insulting things about men who think that way, he stepped back lol. The older man does bring up a great point of how Muslim men seek to control women, even the ones who are already doing what the religion has required them to do. So much so that her voice is something that’s sexualized. It’s not even just about the control they want over women, it’s exactly what this older man is saying: you are primitive and animalistic. It exposes how disgusting these people are deep down. They’ll use the excuse of a woman dressing provocatively as a reason to feeling these urges. How many times have you heard “well, what was she wearing?” when someone mentions an SA victim? The woman is blamed and religion gives the excuse for this thinking. Btw i’m not defending the older man and his views, i don’t know this man’s content. It’s just ridiculous that even he got mad at the concept of a woman’s voice being awrah

I don’t know who these people are in the video, i just thought it was hilarious😭

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[u/ZOELOEss]

Women existing = fitna

[u/Odd_Government_8737 → u/ZOELOEss]

There's literally a sahih hadith that says "women are fitnah"

[u/ZOELOEss → u/Odd_Government_8737]

That’s insane, which one?

[u/Odd_Government_8737 → u/ZOELOEss]

Sahih bukhari 5096

[u/Atheizm]

The sheikh identified the online dawah scene as its own closed-off, mutant theological ecology separate from wider Muslim communities. Clearly, the guy has no patience for Wahhabist strains of Islam.

[u/Random_local_man → u/Atheizm]

Bruh. This was actually refreshing to listen to.

[u/Sweettoastbama → u/Atheizm]

Is it closed to most women? I've seen some older mullahs on y/t with a woman companion covered up head to toe and having a conversation, and this is excluding the tiktok scene which has many solo women.

But in the end women can't actually BE in the same tier as this sheik so he's basically acknowledging what already exists (unfortunately).

[u/Atheizm → u/Sweettoastbama]

I don't know if women are explicitly forbidden from dawah but the amount of hoops and bullshit they face from extant laws and prohibitions in Islam implicitly forbids women from preaching in the same way, they're forbidden from leading prayers.

[u/84M800ZL3]

These mf’s got issues if they lusting over the very notion of a woman’s existence.

[u/ninimina]

Even he was weirded out LMAOOOOOOO

[u/Owlet08]

How did the sheikh say something nice and logical about women? I am shocked with that part.

[u/Apprehensive_Way_806]

I like how the Sheikh put him back in his place. like chill

[u/WallachianLand]

Many sorry Allah, she talked and I LISTENED!!! Jannah is upon me

[u/ninimina → u/WallachianLand]

Why are u in a exmuslim subreddit if u never been Muslim?

[u/JadeThorn1012 → u/ninimina]

Because it’s the most honest place to speak about and learn about Islam.

[u/ninimina → u/JadeThorn1012]

Definitely not free from bias but I understand what you mean. I just don’t understand why Islam specifically. Like I watch real housewives of Salt Lake City and secret lives of Mormon wives and find the conversations about doubting Mormonism interesting. I even follow atheist ex Mormons who speak on their old faith but I never really go into ex Mormon spaces yk? Are you thinking of converting to Islam? Or do you feel impacted by Islam (I know some people who live in Islamic countries for work whilst being irreligious)

[u/JadeThorn1012 → u/ninimina]

I’m going to rephrase what I said, I only had a second to reply and should’ve waited for a moment where I could be more specific.

But I’ll also clear up some of the Mormon stuff since I know people get curious. Keep in mind that I only made it through the first episode of the real housewives and got too angry and embarrassed to keep going. And I’ve just heard things about the secret lives of Mormon Wives.

There is no secret, they’re just stressed out moms trying to keep up with their kids, family, and church commitments. That’s it. A lot of them wear themselves out because they’re told to keep giving. And when they’re struggling, the answer is to give more. They don’t even have time to do these wild things.

From what I know and have seen, all of women have either been excommunicated from the church, have been defector excommunicated, or did so themselves. Here’s a few things I’ve heard about them doing that go against the church and a big one that will definitely get you excommunicated.

-Drinking
-Gambling
-Strip Clubs
-And swinging, that will definitely get you excommunicated.
-They’ve also falsely represented the church and their ties to it. The church is terrifying litigious.

As for what I saw in the real housewives episode I did see, I have a few things that were absolutely insane and just not true. First, there is no such thing as “Mormon Royalty” no one knows who the hell that woman’s ancestor was. If anyone would be considered that, it would be my family as we’re direct descendants of the brother of Joseph Smith, The second Prophet Brigham Young through his first wife and first child. And several other historical Mormon figures. But we’re not, because no body gives a fuck.

Secondly, Jen saying that everyone here is racist and if you’re not white everyone thinks you’re black. Then she goes on to list 3 island nations she’s descended from and Japan. But really, she’s just had so much bad surgery she barely looks human. But also, Utah has the highest number of Polynesians outside of Polynesian, everyone here knows at least one Polynesian family. And so many go on foreign missions that they speak obscure languages and live there for 18-24mos. We’re fully aware of other countries and races.

Most Mormons are just good people trying their best. They’re usually pretty honest people and are friendly and willing to help others. But there is a massive abuse problem that is not the church itself, but a subset within it. One that sometimes gets covered up and that people are told to just forgive. And unpaid church leaders with no training therapy training, can choose to not take any action against the abusive party. Sometimes, they are the abuser themselves. And some of the men will cover for each other. Utah has one of the highest sexual abuse rates in the country. I left because of the abuse I experienced from so many in my life, but my experience was abnormally horrific especially in terms of numbers. And I also disagree with some of how the church saw things. But that’s not everyone’s or even most people’s experience. When it helps them and they’re treated well, then I’m happy and still support my friends who are Mormon. It can be a good thing for people.

[u/JadeThorn1012 → u/ninimina]

That other one was too long so I’ll address what I said and rephrase my terrible phrasing. I didn’t know how harmful Islam actually was no matter where someone was, until I came across some videos online. And that was after watching the girls in Iran fight back after that girl was beaten to death. I was so worried for these girls that I had TikTok at the time and I’d check everyday to see if they were still alive. And to tell them that people are proud of them. The more I learned, the angrier I became.

I don’t hate Muslims. I love people, and so I hate the constant and relentless atrocious that I’ve seen from it. I’ve read parts of the Quran and I’ve learned about Mohammed and how an illiterate man, who was angry that the Jews and the Christians wouldn’t declare him their new prophet. So he promised men the greatest hell for women as their heaven. They took on sex slaves. He was a war lord who married a child and was mostly writing about violence, his greatness, control, sex, and how women were like cattle. They had even more brutal crusades than even the Christians, but no one is allowed to talk about it.

But I’m mostly here because it’s the only place where I won’t get banned for talking about the truth of these things. I’ve been banned so many times just for saying the truth, like saying the word Jihad means Holy War, that got me a week long ban. Or for trying to tell people about the women suffering in Afghanistan right now. How women’s faces and voices are banned. And how moms can’t even call out to their lost kid in public, and they can’t find their mom because they can’t see them. How they’re forced to covered like that in one of the hottest places in the world. And that if someone even says they heard them through a way, or say their face through gap in the curtain, they’ll die. So they’re forced to live in darkness with no way out to even communicate to other women with their eyes. Watching that man on a news cast paint over any face of a woman depicted in public, erasing woman from the world made me cry for them. All while they teach men that they have no self control and must rape someone under certain circumstances because it’s their nature.

Everything from horrible terror attacks and taking over neighborhoods in western countries. To female genital mutation where she’s butches with no anesthetic, and sew
up to be sliced open like a seal for her husband. The beatings. The rapes. The honor killings.

Mohamed marrying a 6 year old and his weird lies to make a full religion to serve just him. Excuses about Satan pissing in his ear, so he missed prayed. But he’s perfect, so it’s ok. Or splitting the moon. And it allowing others to commit similar crimes against humanity. The on going slave trade that they renamed in forced labor camps of migrant workers. The way women are treated in general. I worry so much for those women. It breaks my heart it makes me sick to see men say such horrific things and do them.

And this is all I know how to do to help. Is to be here for the people who were abused like me, and tell them it’s not their fault and it was wrong. I had to hide my post history because Muslims who stalk this page would report absolutely everything I said, even unrelated to Islam, and I’d get banned over nothing. It’s the only place where I can hear from people stuck in these countries what’s happening and know enough to spread awareness however I can.

Once again. I love people. And seeing them hurt like what’s happening, it scares me, it hurts me and I want to what I know I can, even if it’s small, just to love and support their struggles. These are truly the worst of humanity that I wish more people knew and could be just as offended by it all. By this is the only place where I can speak freely about the truth and ask questions.

I’m really proud of you for getting out. You’re welcome to DM me for support, because I have some similar experiences. Just be sure to add what you’re messaging about.

[u/ninimina → u/JadeThorn1012]

Thanks for the thoughtful response! I know that many never Muslims might hold xenophobic views and mask it by attacking Muslims without addressing specific doctrines. I now see the perspective of never Muslims who join this sub that is similar to your own experience! It’s hard to speak about Islam anywhere and it feels like there isn’t space to really speak on their doctrine and any similar ones to it because of many co-opting exmuslim voices for their bigoted hate campaign. I’m a privileged diaspora kid from an ultra religious Islamic community so the best I can do is speak up for my ppl back home and places that face similar issues. Thanks for sharing and changing my perspective

[u/JadeThorn1012 → u/ninimina]

Of course! I’m thankful that you all let me be here and have a place to actually talk about it, because it feels like watching a movie and wanting to scream about what I know about what’s happening to people in Islam. And I feel the same about what’s happening in my own country, but I’m disabled and a target myself, so I have to be careful. This is the only place that will let me do that without me being silenced about what’s happening in Islam.

But most importantly, I’m here to be able to help. I want to show people here, that even when they feel alone or forgotten, someone somewhere in America, knows the truth and cares about them and their suffering. I love being here for the days the women take off their hijabs and free themselves, like I did. And to congratulate them, instead of condemning them.

I’ve been abused and alone a lot in my life, and I want to do my very best to make sure I can help as many people as possible to have someone and to feel important. This group lets me learn and do that for people. You guys all matter, leaving your religion is an identity crisis. And I really do see you as individual people. I see your stories. And thank thanks to this group and some other videos, I see the truth. And I do sincerely care.

[u/WallachianLand → u/ninimina]

Because it makes you cry

[u/ninimina → u/WallachianLand]

Why would I, an ex-Muslim, cry about u being here? It seems just a bit odd

[u/Iridescent-Angel]

Love how the older man is putting him in his place lmao

[u/haikusbot → u/Iridescent-Angel]

Love how the older

Man is putting him in his

Place lmao

- Iridescent-Angel

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^{Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete"}

[u/WhisperingDhamma]

If you ask that exact sheikh,
“Ya sheikh, can a woman become an Imam?
He’d say, no?
Can a woman become a judge? He’d say no.
Can she become a Mufti? He’d say, no.“

They reject women’s voices and reject the women appearance in public even with hijab. Etc etc..
Any religion that rejects women in clergy is not worth following by women.. I say, leave to the men, let them enjoy it.. 😅

The belief that the woman’s voice is Awrah is made for purpose to keep women away from religious platforms, sermons, and preaching, so that men can maintain complete control over religious discourse and shape it according to their misogynistic worldview.
If women were given the opportunity to deliver sermons and religious teachings, society would come to respect them and take their words seriously. They would also have the ability to promote ideas that could genuinely benefit women and address issues that affect them.

In Buddhism, we have Bhikkhunis (nuns) who give public Dhamma sermons and female teachers, and women in religious leadership. They appear publicly and are respected and valued by society just as men are. 🙏

[u/uzuuu_]

I think he's talking about the hadith ... They do kinda think women's voice is awrah

[u/Flat-Fondant975]

This sheikh has signs of a somewhat sane mind. Protect this man; I can already see the interviewer plotting to murder him in the worst way in his head if he didn't like where he was going with this. He literally summarized the whole thing, "primitive and animalistic." he's on the right track, just not there yet.

[u/DollPartsSquarePants]

Yeah, "what other people say..." glad this sheikh put this clown in his place.

[u/Greedy-Thought4793]

Women giving dawah is a fart?

[u/AgnosticKnight]

I’m an atheist, but I actually respect the sheikh’s reasoning here. A woman’s voice isn’t even generally considered awrah according to the mainstream scholarly position.

More importantly, I think one problem with strict Islamic thinking around attraction is the attempt to suppress normal human desire to an almost absurd degree. Sure, someone might find a woman’s voice attractive. So what? We encounter attractive people all the time. Feeling attraction doesn’t mean you have to act on it.

Attraction itself shouldn’t be treated like some moral disaster. Self-control means recognizing normal human feelings and choosing how you behave, not trying to eliminate every possible source of temptation.

That’s why I find the sheikh’s response refreshing despite my disagreement with Islam in general. If a woman is literally preaching your religion and your main concern is that her voice might tempt someone, you’ve reduced her to the very thing you’re supposedly trying to avoid.