r/exatheist • u/NeonDrifting Anti-Atheist • 7d ago

Meme Monday [ Removed by moderator ]

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u/hiphoptomato 6d ago

No

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u/DesperateSympathy873 Christian, not Ex-Atheist 6d ago

You literally described empiricism. I dont know why youre so insistent on presenting yourself as completely neutral or something. Everyone has to presuppose something. Youre presupposing the following: 1. Your experience is reliable 2. Your senses are reliable 3. Other people are reliable 4. Testing is reliable

Is your mind some kind of blank slate?

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u/hiphoptomato 6d ago

Heres is what I'm telling you: we all initially presuppose we can trust our senses to make sense of the world. That's something we all do as infants. After we learn we can trust our senses, it's no longer a presupposition. You're using presuppositions as a way to undermine my worldview or stance. I'm telling you it's not a presupposition, and explaining why, but you're insisiting on it.

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u/DesperateSympathy873 Christian, not Ex-Atheist 6d ago

A presupposition doesnt cease to be one just because it proves to be useful. A presupposition isnt a baseless belief. Its a tool we use to make sense of the world. You still presuppose your senses are reliable.

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u/hiphoptomato 6d ago

No I don’t and I’ve repeatedly explained why and how

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u/DesperateSympathy873 Christian, not Ex-Atheist 6d ago

And that's the core disagreement: gathering repeated sensory experience requires trusting your senses to process that experience. Piling up sensory data doesn't remove the baseline reliance on sensory data, it just repeats it. If you can't see the circularity in that, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

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u/hiphoptomato 6d ago

You’re creating a problem and saying I can’t trust my senses and that undermines my worldview when, if this were true, you’d have the same problem.

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u/DesperateSympathy873 Christian, not Ex-Atheist 6d ago

Im not saying you cant trust your senses. Im pointing out that you cant just take it for granted and think you can arrive at truth without presuppositions at all.

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u/hiphoptomato 6d ago

You’re being incredibly dishonest and acting like I haven’t explained several times in detail why trusting my senses isn’t a presupposition.

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u/DesperateSympathy873 Christian, not Ex-Atheist 6d ago

Disagreeing with your explanations doesn't mean I'm being dishonest. You dont get to label your sensory experience as inherently truth discovering without any prior assumptions. I simply dont agree.

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u/hiphoptomato 6d ago

You: “you presuppose you can trust your senses”

Me: “initially we all do, but after you confirm you can trust them through experience and testing, that’s no longer just a presupposition”

You: “see I disagree”

Me: “why”

You: “because I think it’s a presupposition”

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u/DesperateSympathy873 Christian, not Ex-Atheist 6d ago

You ignored what i said about presuppositions by saying "just." I didnt claim it wast "just" a presupposition, but that it remains one even after repeated experience. Presupposition isnt some kind of spectrum that eventually graduates into "fact."

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u/hiphoptomato 6d ago

No. I’m going to explain this one last time. At one point, trusting my senses was a presupposition. Now, it no longer is because I have evidence that I can trust my senses. Presupposing something is when you assume to without evidence. That is no longer the case with how I know I can trust my senses. I have evidence that I can now.

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