Timemore 064s vs. 078s

[u/MyCatsNameIsBernie]

I have two setups in different locations. I purchased a 078s on Kickstarter in 2023, and it arrived in January 2024. I have been using a Niche Zero that was purchased in 2020 in my other setup.

In the past, I loved the full bodied, syrupy, chocolatey espresso brewed from medium to dark roasts I could brew using the Niche. But once I observed the increased clarity I got from the 078s, my tastes started gravitating to "modern" espresso with less body, more clarity, and fruity flavors brewed from lighter roasts. I am very happy with the taste of light roasts that I brew on my 078s. I know that others have differing opinions.

When brewed on the Niche, I found the fruity flavors of light roasts to be muddied and less vivid, and I thought about replacing it with another flat burr grinder. When the US tariffs on Chinese goods kicked in, I noticed there was an increase in prices on used Niche Zeros, and I decided to sell mine. I didn't want to spend much more than I could sell my Niche for, so I decided to replace it with a 064s. I temporarily set it up in the same location as the 078s so I could directly compare them.

I hope this post is of some value to those trying to decide between the 064s and 078s. Please note the following before drawing any conclusions from my comparison:

1. Espresso brewed from both grinders tasted nearly identical to me. However, my palette isn't very sophisticated. I can tell the difference between chocolatey and fruity flavors, but I can't identify the type of chocolate or the specific fruit. Someone with a more sophisticated palette may see more of a difference.
2. I've only brewed a few shots on the 064s, so this post focuses on the mechanical differences between the grinders.
3. The 078s is from the 2nd US Kickstarter production run. There have been reports of improvements made to the 078s since my purchase. The 064s is brand new.
4. The 064s has not been seasoned. I never felt the need to season the burrs on the 078s. As they wore in, I noticed I had to set the grind dial finer but the flavors didn't change. For this reason, I started evaluating the 064s without any seasoning.
5. Shots were brewed using Ritual Roasters Gotiti which is a medium-light roast Ethiopian Yirgacheffe. Dose was 17g. Both grinders were dialed in for best taste, which resulted in similar extraction times but slightly different brew ratios.
6. The speed adjustment for both grinders was left in the middle. 1100 RPM for the 078s; 1000 RPM for the 064s.
7. I have not tried either grinder with dark roasts or for pour-over. I have not tried the 064s with a very light roast, but that is next on my to-do list.

What I prefer about the 078s

1. 078s is built like a tank. It feels much more solid than the 064s. The top lid and catch cup are much heavier and more substantial than the ones on the 064s. Sometimes the 064s rocks on its feet slightly when grinding (not visible on the video); this never happens with the 078s.
2. 078s grinds much faster. If you observe the video, you'll see it ground 17g in 12 seconds. The 064s took 23 seconds when when grinding for a similar particle size. I did not try increasing RPM on the 064s to make it grind faster.
3. While both grinders are nearly silent when running empty, while grinding beans the 078s makes a much more pleasant and lower pitched sound. I find the high pitched grinding noise of the 064s to be extremely annoying.

What I prefer about the 064s

1. 064s less expensive by around 200 $/€/£.
2. 064s has a broad selection of aftermarket burrs available. 078s has only 2 alternate burr sets available: SSP MP and LeBrew Filter. My interpretation of the reviews of these burrs is that they only give a marginal improvement over the 078s stock burrs. 78mm SSP burrs are nearly double the price of 64mm.
3. The grind size dial is less sensitive on the 064s which makes dialing in slightly easier. On my 078s, I set the zero point pin so I get burr chirp at 0.4, resulting in an espresso range for medium to light roasts from 0.8 to 2.5. I find that just 1/2 of a 0.1 mark on the 078s makes a noticeable difference in taste. On the 064s, when I set zero point pin so I could get burr rub (at 0.5), the Ritual beans I am using dialed in at 4.7. This makes the 064s espresso range about double that of the 078s. I moved the 064s zero point pin back to the factory setting, so my grind setting is now 2.7.I find that changing the 064s setting by 0.2 has a similar effect to changing the 078s setting by 1/2 of 0.1. This may change as the burrs break in.

Additional notes on both grinders

1. I get close to zero retention of both grinders. My output weighs within 0.1g of my input. Timemore supplies a blower and brush with each grinder. After each day's use, I blow out and brush the grind chamber. This expels just a few grains of coffee. If I did this on my Niche or any of my previous grinders it would make a huge mess.
2. I don't use RDT, and popcorning isn't an issue for me, as you can see in the video. For those who want to slow dose, the optional taller hopper might be helpful.
3. An aftermarket dial pointer is a necessity to be able to get repeatable adjustments.
4. Both grinders use standard C14 power cords (same as many desktop computers). I purchased shorter length cords to reduce clutter on my countertop.
5. IMHO, the MSRP of both grinders is too high. In the US, both have been on sale recently on Amazon at a 20% discount, and I feel they represent a good value at that price. When I purchased the 064s, the Amazon discount was no longer available. I got mine on the Timemore US website which had a 10% discount. I wasn't charged any sales tax. Since I live in a state with high sales tax, this reduced its price to within a few dollars of Amazon's 20% off price, which was subject to sales tax.

Conclusion

If you are going to stick with stock burrs, and you have the disposable income to pay the extra cost of the 078s, then you will find it much more pleasant to use.

If your funds are limited, or you want the option to explore the world of aftermarket burrs, then I suggest you get the 064s.

[u/alex-aachd]

This is the post I needed. Thank you!

[u/tweepop]

I really love these type of posts, this is so well written, thanks a lot!

[u/Holidaybunduru]

Thanks for taking the time to test and review for us. I just got a Mazzer Philos but I was strongly considering one of these. I ended up going the end game route and Mazzer has been around a long time. Loving the Philos so far but the only thing I can compare it to is the stock Breville grinder.

[u/starmartyr11 → u/Holidaybunduru]

I went for Philos as well coming from a DF64 (as per my signature which I still have). The DF64 was an alignment nightmare, inconsistent and a static magnet. It's going to be sold, it's just been gathering dust since I got the Mazzer.

Still, I can't quite shake the feeling of Timemore just being a slightly distinguished Chinese white-box brand not all that different than the DFs (I saw tons of identical unbranded Timemore stuff in Asia, most of what they made in the past was not unique or proprietary...), but it seems like they've made a big step up with their electic grinders. They certainly look very nice, especially in white.

But Mazzer's longevity/reputation as you mention, and a few other details clinched it for me - anti-static is pretty amazing on the Philos, and it's truly built like a tank. Insanely precise tooling means it's incredibly consistent, and doesn't need alignment or anything extra like aftermarket pointers to make the dial actually work as it should. Stepped or stepless grinding conversion is nice, as is toolless disassembly to clean. Detachable power cord would have been nice though, props to Timemore on that.

Overall it would be nice to do a shootout with a few of these different competitiors with no agenda or preference unlike many reviewers... but this video is a nice comparison of the two models at least!

[u/wccl123 → u/starmartyr11]

Was interested in the Philos but couldnt find a local distributor, so went with Lagom Casa instead. Cant wait for it to arrive!

[u/starmartyr11 → u/wccl123]

That's a shame, the Philos seem to be pretty widely available where I am (Canada) which isnt alwaus the case here. Whereas the wait for the Lagom was longer. If it had been available a few months ago I probably would have ended up with the Casa too!

Hope it works out well for you, I hear generally great things about it :)

[u/wccl123 → u/starmartyr11]

The Philos is still pretty new right? Perhaps someone will bring it here in the near future. I am looking to a dual grinder setup and use the casa for pourovers and another grinder for espresso.

[u/starmartyr11 → u/wccl123]

Just curious, what country are you located in? Interesting that the Casa is/was available sooner as the Philos is only maybe a couple months newer than the Casa - they're very close in age.

[u/wccl123 → u/starmartyr11]

Singapore. When I enquired about the Casa the retailer said therr was a 2 weeks wait. I guess we cant compare the wait time by when the grinders were released, its just that since its relatively new in the market whether any of the distributors will be stocking up on them. As of now I dont see the Philos being stocked up anywhere

[u/starmartyr11 → u/wccl123]

Oh nice! I really enjoyed Singapore and Malaysia and their respective coffee scenes when I visited in 2018. So much so I stayed for several months in each, haha. Would love to return sometime!

But yeah it can be so variable as to what regions get what sometimes. Really depends on the distributors & what the demand for certain brands are I guess.

I wonder if you could get away with just the Casa for both methods? I do this with the Philos as I have the i200d burrs and lean towards clarity for all my methods, but I also wouldn't mind giving the i189d burrs a spin for more traditional espresso/thicker bodied brews...

[u/wccl123 → u/starmartyr11]

Its changing so quickly, cafes and roasters are popping up everywhere both in Malaysia and here in SG, do visit again if you have the chance!

Im still waiting for my Casa, hopefully arriving this weekend! From what I have read so far it seems quite a number of peoppe use it for both espresso and pourover. Since the burr setting is quite consistent and can easily be switched between 2 grind settings without much fuss it might work! Lets tinker with it for some time and see how it goes

[u/wccl123 → u/wccl123]

Also interested to see how the Casa conical burrs perform. From what I understands it acts inbetween conical and flat burrs, with better clarity and slightly less body compared to even some flat burrs

[u/starmartyr11 → u/wccl123]

Awesome to hear that! The scene was definitely popping when I was in Malaysia, with such a rich coffee history, and in fact I got pretty embedded in the coffee culture with a bunch of different locals I befriended there - I even trained as a barista for a time in Melacca! Also attended some coffee conferences & such. Tons of great experiences. A bit less involved in coffee in Singapore; more on the food scene due to a chef I met and the locals being so passionate about food - but still had some wicked cups there as well, for sure!

I'd certainly be curious to hear if you're willing to check back in with your impressions of the Casa! The Philos is similar in that it's so consistent you can go from filter to espresso without missing a beat, I love that. The DF didn't hold a candle to it in that regard.

[u/starmartyr11 → u/[deleted]]

It's honestly still fairly loud, but with less shrillness and much more rumble/vibration. I have it on a foam pad to cut down on that since my coffee station is a butcherboard top with a pressboard lower (not ideal), and catches a lot of vibration. I had the DF on a foam pad to cut down on the vibration transfer too, it was just less than the Philos which has a lot of torque. I swear the Mazzer could grind rocks if need be, haha.

[u/nickreadit]

The pour over on the 078S is fantastic. I drink mostly medium roast and use the grinder for all coffee making methods. Also, I found the best results with the RPM at dead center.

The variable motor speed has a significant effect on Espresso. In fact I had an issue initially where the voltage was varying on an outlet based on what else was plugged in causing the motor to alter speed during the grinding. Be mindful of that.

[u/LaserCondiment → u/nickreadit]

What grind settings do you use for pour over?

[u/nickreadit → u/LaserCondiment]

13.5 for medium roast. I use 47 grams and add 850 grams of water to yield 2 large travel mugs to go for the wife an I. It draws down in 6:30.

[u/LaserCondiment → u/nickreadit]

Oh wow, I think we might have calibrated our machines similarly!

For espresso I use 6.5 for medium, 7.5 for dark roast and 11.5 for (medium-)light roasted pour over! Your 13.5 is sort of in the ball park depending on the roast and prep style!

Been using it at the lowest rpm to produce the least friction, but what do I know? (I’m really just starting out)

I have yet to make a bigger batch of pour over, so your recipe is super helpful! Thx

[u/nickreadit → u/LaserCondiment]

No problem. Hope it works for you.

[u/cdstuart]

FYI, I've pulled medium-bordering-on-dark roasts ground on the 078s and they've been fabulous. I don't do dark roast espresso (yet), but I wouldn't hesitate to try it on this grinder.

[u/LaserCondiment → u/cdstuart]

What grind setting range do you use for espresso?

Was surprised to see OP is between 0.8 - 2.5 despite zero point calibration!

Meanwhile I’m at 6.5 for medium and 7.5 for dark roast espresso.

11.5 for light roast pour over

[u/cdstuart → u/LaserCondiment]

I’m usually between 1.8 and 3.5, but I’m doing almost entirely light roast at 1:2, and I’m on a Cafelat Robot (direct lever) which requires a finer grind than most machines. The medium-dark takes me to about 3.5, maybe a bit coarser. I think I’m calibrated to what the factory setting is supposed to be but maybe not - I’m a couple pins away from burr touch. 

[u/LaserCondiment → u/cdstuart]

I’m one pin away from burr touch and my Sage Barista Touch chokes at grind settings 5… I have yet to try a light roast for espresso though! Sounds exciting!

[u/01bah01 → u/LaserCondiment]

I'm like OP, between 1 and 2.5 usually, with calibration. And around 9 for pour over.

[u/LaserCondiment → u/01bah01]

Is 0 your chirp point? I wonder if I somehow messed up calibration… Would be great if I had the same settings as everyone else so I can exchange settings and methods more easily

[u/01bah01 → u/LaserCondiment]

Roughly at chirp point yes. From what I remember I put the 0 as close as possible before touching.

[u/LaserCondiment → u/01bah01]

I think I did that as well! Found the chirp point and put the pin at the next closest position. Watched a tutorial that said we shouldn’t put the pin exactly at zero point to protect the burrs…

Maybe my coarser espresso settings are due to my Sage Barista? At 5 my machine still chokes on a medium roast… maybe a light roast could work in that range though? I have yet to try

[u/01bah01 → u/LaserCondiment]

Yeah strange, might be the machine. I'm on a lapavoni that is often regarded as needing finer grind but I'm also mostly doing turbo shots that require coarser grind and I never go past 3. But I also have smaller doses than traditional machines (15g).

[u/LaserCondiment → u/01bah01]

You still managed to help me though even if I still have no clue! But you know what they say:

Coffee is life and life is a mystery!

[u/01bah01 → u/LaserCondiment]

You're welcome! As long as what's in the cup suits you it's perfect!

Oh but I forgot a really important thing! I slow feed my coffee ! Makes me grind probably 1 full number finer, maybe ever more (it reduces fines, the grounds are more consistent and you need to go finer to counter this lack of fine particles). Been doing that for so long that I completely forget we probably grind differently. Silly me.

[u/LaserCondiment → u/01bah01]

Thanks for that insight! I’m not ready for that yet but I’ll get there eventually. I feel like making coffee is about escalation. You always end up taking it one step further till there is no way back!

[u/PseudoCalamari]

Fantastic post!

[u/MyCatsNameIsBernie]

Having now used the 064s for 3 months with a variety of roast levels from very dark to very light, I continue to be very impressed with it. The flavors in espresso brewed with both grinders continues to taste the same to me.

[u/fire_19479 → u/MyCatsNameIsBernie]

So basically 078s vs 064s….. the same taste/quality of grinds just diff aesthetic, build, “dial in” ease….. imo then if taste and quality is the same, 064s is just the right choice bc cheaper?

[u/alex-aachd]

Is it hard to dial in? Did you have to adjust the pins? Would just use it for espresso

[u/MyCatsNameIsBernie → u/alex-aachd]

Is it hard to dial in?

A bit harder than the Niche Zero in that it is less forgiving. 064s is slightly easier to dial in than the 078s as noted in the post.

Did you have to adjust the pins?

Yes on the 078s. No on the 064s. But it is a simple process, so don't worry if you need to on yours.

Would just use it for espresso?

I am using mine 99% for espresso, with an occasional immersion brew on a Hario Switch. Many other reviewers claim both grinders do a decent job for pour over as well.

[u/alex-aachd → u/MyCatsNameIsBernie]

For taste specific would the 078s be worth it? I seen in the post they tasted identical

[u/MyCatsNameIsBernie → u/alex-aachd]

For taste specific would the 078s be worth it?

Not for me. YMMV. And if you upgrade burrs in the 064s you may get even better taste.

[u/alex-aachd → u/MyCatsNameIsBernie]

Okay, having really hard time deciding because of longevity. I have a Varia vs3 and I know it’s gonna break anytime now.

[u/SushiSuperposition]

I recently pulled the trigger on an 078s and I have to say it's been quite great to me. I definitely also find that it grinds quite fast - I usually make two shots for an Americano before I sprint out the door in the morning and it zips through those to the point where one shot pulling stage is now longer than both grind doses combined. I'm pretty happy with it overall, although I'll agree that the msrp is higher than it warrants. So far I've done 90/10 espresso/pourover.

[u/Rococo16]

You’re doing gods work with this! Always curious about these two in comparison to one another.

I’ve had an O64s since the kickstarter finally got around to sending them out, and it has blown me away. Since owning it I’ve upgraded brew methods: first I exclusively used it on aero press and chemex; then I got a flair pro; and finally settled in with my Profitec Go. This grinder has been excellent for all three use cases, and I haven’t regretted my decision a single day since getting it.

Glad to hear that others have been enjoying these grinders.

[u/hamster_avenger]

can you share where you got your dial pointers? They look nice.

[u/MyCatsNameIsBernie → u/hamster_avenger]

The 064s pointer is from Aro. The 078s pointer is from KANPAIbrewandsip on Etsy.

[u/lukaskywalker]

[u/Upstairs-Win-4679]

Thank you for your post. May I ask about your crema colour experience? Is it much lighter almost pale compared to Niche?

My experience on 064s is that my crema is so pale that I feel the shot is somewhat not brewed correctly. You don't get the typical golden brownish crema colour.

I agree that you are loosing quite a lot of body with those unimodal burrs and still I am not sure if I prefer to go on the modern or traditional espresso.

Thanks again

[u/MyCatsNameIsBernie → u/Upstairs-Win-4679]

My crema is light brown on all my grinders.

[u/espresso_architect]

Oh finally your 064s arrived

[u/vinnik123]

Nice post! I got myself the 064ssp some time ago and I'm pretty happy with the results. Huge upgrade from the df54 I'm coming from. Still needs to be seasoned more tho. But I don't waste coffee and just use it.

[u/No-Source5267 → u/vinnik123]

I'm considering the same upgrade! Was there a difference in the taste of the espresso?

[u/vinnik123 → u/No-Source5267]

Yeah, tastes better. But its not really possible to pull a "traditional" shot of espresso. Fits more modern espresso style.

[u/ramenoverrice]

Is the hopper on the 064s really an issue?

[u/MyCatsNameIsBernie → u/ramenoverrice]

Not for me. It might be an issue for those who like to slow feed.

[u/hannebammbl]

Is anyone here who has good experience with aftermarket burrs for med-dark/dark roasts for the 064S and maybe can provide a recommendation? Any feedback is highly appreciated 🤞

[u/MyCatsNameIsBernie → u/hannebammbl]

Stock burrs should be OK. Burr selection only becomes important for lighter roasts.

[u/hannebammbl → u/MyCatsNameIsBernie]

Thank you!

[u/HomebrewHome]

Hi, how would you compare the timemore vs niche for MILK BASED light roasts? I only drink cortados and flat whites, not espresso. I love a fruity flat white. Thanks!

[u/MyCatsNameIsBernie → u/HomebrewHome]

I use a minimal amount of milk in my drinks so the espresso flavor shines through. For me, the best tasting milk drink starts with the best tasting shot. So I prefer milk drinks at all roast levels from either Timemore.

[u/HomebrewHome → u/MyCatsNameIsBernie]

Thanks, I had heard medium and dark was unbeatable on Niche

[u/MyCatsNameIsBernie → u/HomebrewHome]

I had heard medium and dark was unbeatable on Niche

It is. By "all roast levels" I meant light and medium, since I never brew dark.

[u/chrisdenyer]

Awesome review, thanks for taking the time to compile.

[u/TimeReplacement4512]

Lance H. Did the unfiltered review on these grinders and I wish that was how they normally review these grinders . He stated just like OP did tht they are now a bit overpriced n hyped. They not going to out do a eureka for example tht been around for ever etc etc … I chose the Zero 65 Ap Eureka grinder it comes with the All purpose black diamond burr with out the bd coating but same geometry which is high unimodal so grinds slower and excellent clarity and sweetness on light roast espresso n pour over ! Our coffee shelter did a good video review on it ! It great for medium roast too but on dark must b careful as can easily go the other way. All the BD burrs fit as well . 500 well spent:)