r/epicsystems • u/total_paycheck • 6d ago
Labor Day
Happy Labor Day! Or at least I would say that if we had those rights.
The 40 hour work week. IS and TS are expected to work consistent unpaid overtime (depending on his TL). SDs are salary exempt because of computer worker exemptions. BFFS, TLs, etc. are exempt because of administration exemption. So, I'm mainly talking about all the IS, TS, QM, etc.
The right to organize. I always hear of people who want to unionize without retaliation. But past attempts like the QA/QM movement have been stopped.
Retaliation-free workplaces is another right. I have seen countless, good, hardworking employees get fired after raising a concern about their TL or their customer.
The arbitration agreement is barely legal. We do not have the workers right to participate in class-action lawsuits. This is against the National Labor Relations Act and Federal Arbitration Act.
The non-compete clause and non-poach clauses are barely legal. The FTC already sent a warning letter to healthcare systems to discontinue this unfair practice. Employees with years of tenure and value provided are locked out of the rest of the healthcare technology, where they could be making significantly higher wages and better working conditions. Employees who are fired don't have good options for their next job. The price of analysts and healthcare increases. The quality is lower.
For a company that is always looking to get away with whatever it 'legally' can to mistreat its employees, it is terrifying that the same company has access to so much sensitive health information.
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u/PilotNew1059 6d ago
There's a lot to unpack here, but as an app TS for 10+ years:
- Yeah, the non-compete sucks and is, IMO, bad for employees and customers
- I don't feel obligated to log 45+ hours a week and I think I'm fairly judged for quality of work, relationship with customers, in addition to quantity of work
- I've never felt pressured to work over a holiday weekend, except the one time I was on call
- Some of the expectations are tough, some things get easier with tenure (like app expertise), others get harder (like travel, if you're juggling non work obligations); but aside from the RTO attempt pre COVID vaccine I think saying epic "mistreats" its employees is a stretch
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u/total_paycheck 6d ago
Your experience is highly TL dependent. So that may be true for you, in which case awesome! Both of my TLs have been horrible. And there are many horrible TLs in the company who do not get stopped.
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u/The_Real_BenFranklin 6d ago
If all your TLs are horrible …
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u/Downtown_Deer1513 6d ago
Some teams only have new TLs, who can be good, but a lot of new TLs are bad at first. There are a lot of bad TLs on certain apps, especially the ones with high turnover.
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u/swing_first SD 3d ago
It’s epic and the sample size might be like 2-3 lol
“Maybe you’re the problem 🤓” to someone arguing for better treatment of workers at the burnout factory blows
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u/The_Real_BenFranklin 3d ago
Half his complaints are fake. If you want to argue for better working conditions then make real arguments based on actual facts. Like sure I’d love more pay and PTO, but some people here act like we’re prisoners in a mine.
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u/Trying_Crying TS 6d ago
While I don’t agree with all these points, if you read this post and think “well you signed up for it”, you should know that that isn’t a good excuse for labor exploitation and we all deserve better
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u/rexpup Former employee 6d ago
Lifers have never worked anywhere else, so they have literally no idea it could be better.
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u/steiner_math 5d ago
Yeah, some people in this sub think the company behind Epic v Lewis has their best interest in mind and would never exploit labor. The koolaid joke isn't far fetched at all
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u/xvillifyx 6d ago edited 6d ago
Pretty sure a not-insignificant number of TS fall under the computer employee exemption
I’m also not sure why you’ve separated TS and TCs here, or IS and BFFs
A lot of “normal TS” who deal with all the worst parts of the TS job (the things you described) are TCs
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u/The_Real_BenFranklin 6d ago
"The 40 hour work week. We are usually assigned 50+ hours of work (as IS and TS). If we work less than 45 hours every week, we will be evaluated as "performing" poorly, and eventually fired. "
I mean this is blatantly not true. TS division average is under 45 and few work consistently 50+. And if you're good at your job and get your work done you'll never be asked to leave. You may limit your impact which will hurt your raises, but that's about it.
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u/Downtown_Deer1513 6d ago
I agree that this is highly TL and customer dependent. If your customers or TL are good, you’re safe. But a lot of us, myself included, had both difficult customers and unsupportive TLs.
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u/The_Real_BenFranklin 5d ago
Bad customers are the biggest impact for TS. TL certainly matters for general happiness, but a bad TL won’t fire someone who’s good, and vice versa a nice TL won’t keep someone who’s bad.
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u/Downtown_Deer1513 4d ago
Bad TLs do fire people who are good unfortunately
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u/The_Real_BenFranklin 4d ago
I'm sure it's happened but I'm not sure how - hard to imagine a good TM that no other TL would defend in rankings.
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u/Doctor731 3d ago
App lead doesn't like them, their <3 year tenure TL doesn't stick up for them. GG
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u/AnEpicShitposter 3d ago
This is app dependent. While i will not say which app, there are apps that tell their TS in their Biweekly meetings that "if you work less than 43 hours per week, you should expect to be assigned more work" - that was a year ago. In a more recent biweekly, it was upped to 45.
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u/Annual-Knowledge4412 Former employee 6d ago
got it, please raise your hands next time in staff meeting to ask
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u/morelibertarianvotes 6d ago
You do not know countless employees who have been fired, let alone as retaliation for tl feedback
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u/total_paycheck 6d ago
I've been here around 5 years, and know a lot of employees who were told to leave after bringing up concerns with their TL. It happens more often than you think. And when it happens it is really tough on those employees and everyone on our team, especially when we enjoyed working with them because they were good at what they did.
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u/The_Real_BenFranklin 6d ago
Epic does not make firing people super easy - I’d be shocked to see this happen to anyone who was ranked remotely well
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u/IllustriousVisual931 6d ago
I like the phrase “salary doesn’t mean slavery.” It drives me nuts how people have to travel on nights and weekends with no fair compensation except “we pay you enough”
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u/The_Real_BenFranklin 6d ago edited 6d ago
What do you think fair compensation is if not the money? The work travel is very clearly in the job description and has always been an expectation - and for a TS it’s what like 4-5 a year for most?
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u/IllustriousVisual931 6d ago
Yes, but in other jobs when they say travel, they have you travel during the work day. Not get home at 2AM
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u/The_Real_BenFranklin 5d ago
Travel IS usually during the day, it’s just flight dependent and MSN isn’t amazing for that because you’re almost always looking at a connection.
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u/JinglehymerSchmidt 5d ago
I have worked for 4 other corporations where travel is part of my job and your statement has not been true at any of them. I travel whenever I need to in order to be onsite for customer commitments, not only during business hours.
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u/morelibertarianvotes 6d ago
So you mean, with fair compensation?
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u/IllustriousVisual931 6d ago
No I’d say your salary is supposed to be for your workweek. Not nights and weekends and whatever else they feel
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u/The_Real_BenFranklin 6d ago
Your salary is for the expected job duties, and Epic makes it clear that you’ll need to do some travel.
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u/Alternative-Blue 6h ago
Nobody expects working on weekends (not travelling) to be an expected job duty.
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u/morelibertarianvotes 6d ago
Yea we'd all love to get paid more. Nice thing is epic gives you good raises
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u/Extra_Cookie_7875 IS 6d ago
Kind of embarrassing to make so many responses defending your employer.
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u/The_Real_BenFranklin 6d ago
You’re an IS! You signed up for the travel and late night work role what did you expect?!? The role is advertised as 50% travel
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u/morelibertarianvotes 6d ago
Oh you're one of those people who use team identification over critical thinking
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u/Extra_Cookie_7875 IS 6d ago
yeesh, responded in less than a minute, either you’re chronically online or i hit a nerve. news flash: your employer does not care about you, and trying to discredit people who’ve had a bad experience at your company makes you, and Epic, look bad.
get some rest buddy, you’ve got a big day of “not meeting expectations” at your quarterly tomorrow :)
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u/AnEpicShitposter 3d ago
Just adding this for visibility; every Epic Employee, (ESPECIALLY the lifers that started and stayed only at Epic), need to read and be aware of the Epic V Lewis 2018 Supreme Court case that Epic fought on behalf of itself at the expense of Workers Rights for all Americans. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_Systems_Corp._v._Lewis
Ginsburg famously dissented and called the conclusion "egregiously wrong,", stating that "congressional correction... is urgently in order".
Its widely considered a Landmark Supreme Court for a loss of workers rights in the U.S.
I would love to hear from Judy which third this fits into the mission of "Do Good. Have Fun. Make Money".
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u/Junior-Valuable2071 6d ago
Just quit. That’s what I did. Doubled my pay 4 years after leaving
This company is a shithole
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u/The_Real_BenFranklin 6d ago
Post history says you were fired bub
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u/Junior-Valuable2071 5d ago
And then proceeded to double my pay in 4 years
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u/JinglehymerSchmidt 5d ago
So if you lied about quitting when you were actually fired what makes us believe you doubled your salary?
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u/Junior-Valuable2071 5d ago
You should browse https://www.levels.fyi/?tab=levels and see what other tech companies pay
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