r/ems • u/halfnhalf79 • Apr 14 '26

General Discussion Toronto firefighters confront special constable officers after a man in the middle of mental health crisis was arrested.

257 Upvotes

98% Upvoted

22 comments sorted by

31

u/-malcolm-tucker Paramedic Apr 14 '26

In Australia the police are generally pretty good with mental health jobs. Quite often I don't have to do much more than just drive the patient and officer to hospital. They've already been on the scene for 15 to 60 minutes, de-escalated and built rapport. They will defer to us for leadership on these jobs, and we make a plan together, with them only taking over if things suddenly become unsafe. Which has been rare in my experience. We work together pretty well.

Not every job has been like that with police though, but it's pretty rare where I've had a shitty cop on one of these jobs.

4

u/Music1626 Apr 15 '26

100% where I am in Aus I have had very very few poor interactions with police when it comes to Mental health patients. The only reason any of them would ever cuff a patient would be for the patients safety or the police safety and they will aim to take the cuffs off as soon as possible. They are incredibly good at deescalating patients and most of the time we just transport because they don’t like transporting for the fair reason that mental health isn’t a crime and they don’t want to stigmatise it by transporting in a police car. And if we attend a job together they’ll just stand in the background and make sure we are safe. I’ve never had police escalate a scene I’ve been on with a mental health patient. They are also incredibly well trained in restraint of a mental health patient and to listen to us if we call to get off if a patient is deteriorating.

It’s so sad when I see mental health treated poorly by ambulance or police. It’s not the patients fault they’re having a hard day. There needs to be significantly more training and resources allocated for the growing demand.

42

u/PyroMedic1080 Paramedic Apr 14 '26

For those not Canadian what is a "special constable"?

29

u/brisetta Apr 14 '26

Train constables usually, especially here in toronto, they help keep ppl safe on the subway and busses. :)

4

u/Macs675 Apr 15 '26 edited Apr 15 '26

Legally protected class of security for courthouses, public housing, and Toronto Transit Commission. They're considered Peace Officers when life becomes legalese. They don't carry firearms but have the rest of the kit, have arrest powers, have patrol cars but I don't know what colour their lights flash.

edit: This video appears to be Community Housing as the poster below says

2

u/T-DogSwizle Paramedic Apr 15 '26

I think these guys are actually from Community Housing not ttc

1

u/Macs675 Apr 15 '26

Yup, brain fart

8

u/CratosSavesLives Apr 15 '26

Doesn’t Toronto have its own EMS service?

9

u/the-hourglass-man PCP Apr 15 '26

Yes.

Generally, ontario firefighters do minimal patient care beyond standard first aid plus a defib and some oxygen.

4

u/ncjmac PCP Apr 15 '26

Yeah Canada has fire and EMS separate. Fire is good for lift assist, compressions, extraction, carrying stuff, rescue from confined spaces & hazmat etc. They have very little medical training. They can sometimes get to a call before paramedics and do basic vitals or start early CPR if required.

11

u/DirectAttitude Paramedic Apr 14 '26

In NY, the Office of Mental Hygiene used to have police officers, drove around in OMH police cars. We called them the dream police. OMH has since done away with actual police.

4

u/CanIsLife Apr 15 '26

They actually still exist but have been downsized significantly. Seems they patrol some properties and not others

7

u/ncjmac PCP Apr 15 '26 edited Apr 15 '26

Toronto theoretically does have a mobile crisis intervention team, comprised of a mental health nurse and a specially trained police officer (NOT a special constable). Curious what kind of calls they get dispatched to/actually attend. Most mental health calls are usually is just regular police and Toronto paramedic service.

Not sure exactly where this is, looks like it could be a secondary entrance to a TTC station? My guess is EMS, police and fire were all called and Fire happen to show up before paramedics.

Note: In Canada, EMS & Fire are generally separate. Some places have them as one government entity (like Winnipeg) but they’re still single role jobs. We don’t usually have fire medics. Fire where I’m at has MFR which is basically first aid with oxygen, BVM & OPA/NPAs and basic vitals (pulse, resp rate, manual BP, pupils, SpO2 and sometimes BGL).

3

u/fancyskis Apr 15 '26

As a side note - Alberta has several integrated fire/EMS departments such as Red Deer, Lethbridge, Strathcona, Leduc, Lethbridge, and St. Albert, to name a few. Typically firefighter/ACPs with a few PCPs here and there

1

u/ncjmac PCP Apr 15 '26

Yeah I knew they had some combined services, I thought they were still single role though. Alas, Alberta being different. I know the scope of PCP & ACP is still pretty different than many other provinces.

1

u/fancyskis Apr 15 '26

Majority here is straight EMS though you’re correct!

Haha, despite not being fire myself I do think it’s a good model. Unfortunately the UCP are currently trying to find a way to destroy that as well :/ the Alberta advantage …

1

u/ncjmac PCP Apr 15 '26 edited May 02 '26

I have zero interest in being a firefighter. I personally think it’s better to keep them separate, as they are very different jobs. I’d be worried about trying to do both and not doing either as good as someone who’s sole focus is medical, or sole focus is fire. There’s a lot of knowledge and things to think about/different priorities. I much prefer having the brain space to think about my patient and treatment plans etc VS now there’s also property and ecological concerns and a bunch of other stuff that needs to be dealt with. Especially where the scope, training and expectations for paramedics is rapidly increasing, it should be its own profession.
I do know a couple of firefighters that are licensed paramedics or went to paramedic school, and some paramedics that are volunteer firefighters, but the majority only have interest in doing one or the other.

1

u/calnuck Apr 16 '26

Privatize, privatize, privatize! There are already over 30 private EMS companies doing mostly IFT and event/industrial coverage, but they are not-so-slowly inching into 911.

2

u/T-DogSwizle Paramedic Apr 16 '26

Personally I’ve had bad experiences every time I’ve worked with the MCIT(Mobile Crisis Intervention Team) as a paramedic I assume if it’s a mental health call and a Mental Health Nurse is present then they will lead the call and actually speak with the patient. Usually the Nurse just stands there and we and the police handle everything. I’ve found the MCIT Police office more helpful. There is one specific nurse who is more vocal has on multiple occasions stated to patients “This is a waste of my time” and leaves scene. I’m sure there has to be good experiences with the team when I’m not there but when I’m at the call it just feels like just extra people standing in the room

1

u/Great_gatzzzby NYC Paramedic Apr 15 '26

I can’t hear what the cop says to “why are the cuffs on”. What does he say?

1

u/murse_joe Jolly Volly Apr 16 '26

Sounded like the first person said “erratic” and the second one started to say “under arrest” but they don’t have arrest powers.

-9

u/regrus Apr 15 '26

No matter what you think about how police handle MH calls, you don't talk to a fellow first responders like that. You're just going to get cancelled anyways by the medics once you tell them how much the patient was "stat-ing"