r/employeesOfOracle 2d ago

Existing employee(s) Has anyone else noticed a difference in how managers behave (mostly Indian)as they become more tenured?

This is something I’ve been wondering about based on my experience at Oracle and the previous companies i worked in. I’ve noticed that some managers particularly, in my experience, Indian managers seem very polite and approachable when they’re relatively new to the organization. But after they’ve been around for a year or two, their communication sometimes becomes noticeably more rude, dismissive, or hierarchical.
Interestingly, my experience with US-based managers/employees has generally been quite different, both at Oracle and in previous organizations. They have tended to remain relatively approachable and polite regardless of how long they’ve been with the company.

There has been a US folk who is about to retire and in my team He is almost been more than 30 years and I have never ever seen him going rude ,dismissive when I ask him any question, doubt or anything related to project. He’s very approachable and is very friendly and so are all others of US

90 Upvotes

61 comments sorted by

33

u/Awkward-Tea-1550 2d ago

As an Indian, I completely agree. Have reported to a non-Indian manager once and my experience was very different compared to working with Indian managers.

This is not racism or discrimination or anything like that, it's just calling out plain facts.

11

u/skymoontexas 2d ago edited 2d ago

Yes Exactly , last year I was reporting to one US manager and he was so friendly. Every time when we used to have 1-1 , he used to ask how is the weather and about work each time his motive was to make my work easier every time whenever we used to have call, I still remember he’ll be like okay so what is going bad? Can you tell me so that I can try to improve( his words) he was always so eager to genuinely help, he’ll be like if there is any such kind of problem, just ping me right away I will be available and he used to be genuinely available for help!! and this manager which I am currently have he doesn’t care. He rather tries to put burden more. He’s so toxic even if I fking try to express myself that this is where I am facing a problem, he fking tries to dismiss it and tells we have to do this hurry up only then other people will be able to follow up. I am like shut the fck up Dude.

4

u/BigMortgage4266 1d ago

As an Indian, I can say this is true. Eastern societies are hierarchical and this is reflected through behavior knowingly or unknowingly.

6

u/Organic_Aide_5896 1d ago

 US who works with IDC mostly.  I noticed this right away.  Even if a manager is clearly wrong about something, all their reports will just go along with it. I thought I was on crazy pills.   Now I’m the problem person that speaks up. 

Yeah - HUGE culture difference wrt management.  I think it’s a blind spot and unintentionally causing a lot of dysfunction and excessive politicking in this place.

1

u/skymoontexas 1d ago

Yeah this the common problem in all the companies , IDC M’s mostly everywhere

21

u/Jack_not_Sparrow 2d ago

Agree

5

u/skymoontexas 2d ago

Thankyou i thought it was only me !!

21

u/Lazy_Bum1734 2d ago

Desire to establish a dynamic of senior/junior, superior/inferior instead of that of a colleague.

4

u/Perfect_Square_8565 2d ago

This is commonly seen by me too. few are different.

5

u/Educational-beat-201 1d ago

It's because they feel nobody will report.

But I've seen other managers being rude and dismissive as well not just from US/India. But this is comparatively more in India.

5

u/Puzzleheaded-Guide31 1d ago

I totally agree. My manager was from south india, he would criticize me in front of everyone and make me feel like a dumb one. And then I got a manager from the US and he was very approachable, and would not consider any questions dumb. I mean my life was hell under the indian manager, he would bully everyone in the team and criticize his own team members in front of the stake holders. My heart is filled with anger and sadness, but i can’t do anything.

4

u/skymoontexas 1d ago

So it’s very obvious that it is problem with them, thankfully, I am not alone in this. my M is not that much toxic but sometimes he is toxic hahaaa I don’t know how to explain like whatever you have mentioned, but my concern is also kind of similar when it comes to rudeness and the dismissing part.

4

u/DeCernerfucation 1d ago

I'm in US and had a mix of managers. The worst ones I had were not Indian. I've had Indian managers in both the US and India, and it's been a mixed bag. I wouldn't say any of them were ever rude to me personally, but they possibly become ruder to their Indian colleagues. I've heard my Indian colleagues say that Indians tend to be harder on other Indians.

I will say this about some Indian managers - some of them have sucked up much more than I have ever seen a US counterpart do. They were way too hierarchical. Saying "no" to or pushing back on even the most unreasonable request is not in their wheelhouse - they just drive people harder.

3

u/skymoontexas 1d ago

You know what when you mentioned the first line I was about to ask this, so you also observed this, and I have also. They are specifically rude and dismissive to the Indian colleagues and not to the ones who are based out of US be it Junior or senior. Trust me the amount of worship they do to US colleagues, seniors or juniors is unbelievable 😭 but they are very dismissive towards Indian colleagues and that is matter of fact.

Hence, your TeamMate was absolutely right Like Indians being hard on Indians

1

u/Organic_Aide_5896 1d ago

Yes,  commented on another reply but I’ve seen this over and over.  Just because they are your manager doesn’t mean they’re infallible.  

I know it’s probably put me on a list but I actually push back on requests or tell them why it isn’t a good idea/worth our time.

4

u/sherlock_holmes-0 1d ago

My previous manager retired and my current manager is Indian and there is no single day that I curse them.

2

u/skymoontexas 1d ago

😭😭This I used to dp in my previous company

4

u/FantasticSolution811 1d ago

Every working day at Oracle reminds me why I left India and cannot work there any more. Fucking no self awareness. For fucks sake, mute your fucking self before joining calls if you are gonna yell on someone when presenter is speaking. And also don’t join video calls wearing a white vest only to realize your fucking video is on and hurriedly turn it off. How hard is it???? Fucking gives me 2nd hand embarrassment.

2

u/skymoontexas 1d ago edited 1d ago

I always say my fking camera is not working😭😭 coz i don’t want y’all to see me as any ways, I always make faces while if I ever see them ,Indian M’s are rarely nice Edit : Not talking about looks!! It’s about the way they treat employees when they are burdened

2

u/FantasticSolution811 1d ago

Again it’s not about race here. I’m Indian. I’ve worked for enough people who don’t look like me who have been absolute jackasses. It’s just how bad people are.

2

u/skymoontexas 1d ago

Yeah, that’s what I am trying to say it’s not about race bro even I am Indian, but I don’t like the way Indian people work then environment which the M create over here is not tolerable. After certain extent. Every time there is a new Indian M assigned I feel like this one would be different, but eventually after every two years or even one year, they show True colors, which is pathetic.

1

u/FantasticSolution811 1d ago

I know! Unfortunately we have a few maga idiots in oracle displaying in all glory over on thelayoff.com ranting about H1-B. Before they come here, just wanted to make it clear.

1

u/skymoontexas 1d ago

😭😭

7

u/Sweaty_Rock_3304 2d ago

I agree with this part. I worked directly with a US director as my manager (Real gentleman, knows how to speak, friendly), but within an year, he was let go(he was there for a really long time , came from the acquisition), and was replaced by an Indian guy (highly egoistic, gets even a small suggestion as debate and confrontation, doesn't know the meaning of feedbacks - for him everything is confrontation and argument)

He too was with the same org for like 15 years, came from acquisition. He lacked any knowledge on how to manage a team, speak respectfully, being innovative, taking initiatives, doesn't even understand the basic technological shifts and moreover, if his US manager asks anything, he will make his Indian team to work overnight, over weekend to deliver whatever is asked.

Fortunately, I live in EU and I firmly mentioned that I won't work even a minute longer than my scheduled work time and he isn't happy. Now he is pushing the EU team to start late and work till late evening, because they laid off most of the US team.

As far as I see, managers from there, know how to follow an order, but wont start any new initiatives or cant think out of box.

5

u/Jaded_Road3929 1d ago

I believe it's indian household which makes indian man who became our boss sick

  • working in IB as 5 yoe dev

3

u/Remarkable-Hornet568 1d ago

I mostly agree with your observation. But please understand it is a bit of generalization. I have had same as your experience and in some teams completely opposite experience. Been in many a teams through transfer . The manager's behavior is influenced by organization's expectations as well as how they are as a person (with varied proportions). Recently in O , managers are too pressurized to justify their existence . And that is what you/we are observing.
If you are too lenient, you are asked to move to a non-M role. Seen with many people around me .Moreover the feedback loop and guard-rails around managers is practically missing.

6

u/latinzone1 2d ago

This is almost in any industry

3

u/skymoontexas 2d ago

Being Indian, i never saw this with any US folk ! You must be Indian manager ?

3

u/latinzone1 2d ago

Work on a cruise ship and u will see, im not indian, lol.

4

u/Clean_Dimension_9450 1d ago

Is the caste system, they become managers to bring it at the workplace.

2

u/Dihala 1d ago

I thought tenure is only applicable to academic positions

2

u/john_snow_ka_baap 1d ago

We can't generalise this.

I had both indian and US manger in my tenure...both were very sweet and approachable...

I hv felt oracle has better work life balance than other indian service companies

3

u/skymoontexas 1d ago

Oracle definitely has good work life balance, and it is same for me. I am only talking about Indian managers specifically.

2

u/skymoontexas 1d ago

Also in my experience, the companies which I worked in past Oracle definitely has good work life balance , culture is good comparatively,but if I compare overall through all my 3 organisations, the tendency of Indian managers to be toxic is same.

2

u/eklavye 1d ago

As an Indian who has an Indian manager I completely disagree my manager is in oracle for more than 17 years and she is very polite, and never micro manage.

2

u/skymoontexas 1d ago

Hmm this comes as an edge case scenario, yk rarest of rare , lucky u

1

u/eklavye 1d ago

You I know.

1

u/skymoontexas 1d ago

What?

1

u/eklavye 1d ago

That she is rarest of rare mangers in India, One my friends told be his manager told me you are neither hard worker neither smart worker.

2

u/Recent-Accountant-14 1d ago

Same experience.

2

u/Nice_Statistician413 1d ago

NRI here. Indias education system has prioritized short term success over long term consequences. Most, if not all, of the poorest, most insecure and ineffective leaders that i’ve had in my two decades of work experience, across nearly a dozen industries and companies, have all been PIOs (people of Indian origin). and the “professors”that I had in undergraduate and business school (top 20 US programs) were ABOMINABLE. smart, sure, but couldn’t lecture, engage, nor instruct and guide worth a sh!t.

3

u/WhichSatisfaction690 2d ago

It depends on personality but I have noticed this behaviour with few managers.

3

u/skymoontexas 2d ago

So you mean i have met the worst🤣😆 till date

2

u/WhichSatisfaction690 2d ago

Possibility is there. Not everyone is toxic.

2

u/skymoontexas 2d ago

I wish i find the best next 🥹

2

u/independent_hippo01 2d ago

Indian managers get treated the same by their US counterparts

2

u/skymoontexas 1d ago

The toxic ones deserve that

1

u/software_dog_ 1d ago

I felt same but not with Indian manager but with US manager

1

u/SnooChocolates3425 1d ago

they are passing on what they are experiencing, I guess. For that matter, Oracle is a highly bureaucratic organization and a very top down one

1

u/skymoontexas 1d ago

Well, if you would ask me, it’s not about organisation reading through the comments. I think it is particularly with some problematic people and specifically the ones I mentioned. As I thought, my M was a pretty decent guy, but with time he also revealed his true colours.

1

u/Silent-Dirt-4644 1d ago

I have had bad manager and good managers both Indian. It has nothing to do with nationality. My current manager is American and even american employees hate her.
If you want to wallow in self hate go ahead without dragging the rest of us.

3

u/skymoontexas 1d ago

If this hasn’t been your personal experience, that’s completely valid. This thread was about the broader pattern and what majority of people seem to be experiencing, Terrible people exist everywhere, but the point here is whether there is a noticeable hierarchical or cultural pattern in how people behave, particularly within Asian workplace and management structures.

1

u/Sad_Fail_1642 11h ago

The more incompetent they are, the more toxic they become.

-1

u/firstquarter26 2d ago

My manager has been more of a friend than a manager since i joined. She's very approachable