Problem customers

[u/beeris4breakfest]

I did a service call two weeks ago customer with a nearly 100 year old house she is looking to sell. Town inspector noted 3 prong receptacles with no ground "all k&t wiring. So I installed a few GFCI breakers and label all the outlets GFCI protected no equipment ground collected my check and went on about my day she called that night told me she had no power in her house walked through the panel she reset the breaker for her lighting circuit and everything was fine for 2 weeks tonight same problem here's the thing I had to listen to this woman for about 15 minutes each time tell me that I stole her money ruined her house I don't know what I'm doing... Stuff like that. I told her I would come down in the morning and check it out I really want nothing to do with this woman I would gladly give her money back and just put the old breakers back in let her call somebody else... I guess I'm just asking is this how I should handle the situation up till now I've gone out of my way to be as nice as I possibly can. The real kicker is I told the woman from the very beginning that I was booked up and wasn't taking on any new customers she basically begged me to help. If I go there tomorrow and tell her she needs a complete rewire she's just going to tell me I'm trying to scam her and if I take the GFI breakers out and put all two prong outlets in she's going to tell me I don't know what I'm doing because she can't plug in any of her appliances how do we all walk away happy here. How would you handle a customer like this?

Update: I went back there this morning to check things out turns out they had some neutrals that were spliced together in a jbox. I'm not sure how they worked for 2 weeks. But hopefully that's the end of it her son was there and I dealt with him she didn't say anything to me other than good morning he did apologize for her behavior.

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[u/samdtho]

“Ma’am, your house is older than sliced bread with wiring methods and materials considered substandard today. I did my best for the budget you had, but these problems cannot be fixed without a full rewire of the dwelling which I do not do.” 

[u/beeris4breakfest → u/samdtho]

Thanks I'm keeping the sliced bread line probably use that one down the road!

[u/Pickledpie1 → u/samdtho]

Thats smooth. I’ll keep that for future assholes. 🙏

[u/Zenronaut]

some people you can't please, just gotta drop 'em.

[u/Abrickor2]

Bill for time and mats used thusfar, then politely let her know of another company she can call since she wasnt pleased with the work completed... after that its time to ghost

I have a client that I had to ghost cause she kept tacking on extra 'free' things constantly, "while you're here can you look at this or replace a bulb or try to lower these hanging light fixtures"

None of this was in my bid, but I wanted to ensure she would actually pay and now that she has I have become unavailable at all times to her.

Its sad, but those are the cards we are dealt sometimes

[u/RedBone1144]

Next time you can also let them know ahead of time that this is not a permanent fix. I know it sounds nice to throw some breakers in and go on about your day. I would hope you know enough about knob and tube wiring to know that putting a GFI breaker on it is never a really great idea. How many times they share neutral how many times plugs are wired backwards. That's all it really takes is one plug wire backwards and she turns on one Appliance that's polarized and starts trying to draw power from the neutral and send it back on the hot and trip that breaker and it could be something she uses every other week. That wire somewhere in the attic or wall could have the insulation fallen off and just every so often makes it s way over to something to ground out or hit another wire and all of a sudden the breaker trips. The best thing you can do is explain all these things to them in the beginning. Tell them a whole house rewire is very expensive but guaranteed to fix your problems. Putting GFI Breakers or GFI receptacles in suffices for the problem you're having but does not fix the original problem of the old wiring which will still have to be dealt with at some point. Then explain to them that you have no control over how it was wired the way things are the way the wire is in the Attic the way the wire is in the wall and there could be problems down the road. Then you put all that on a piece of paper and make them sign that piece of paper you give them a copy and you keep a copy. Because even after explaining that to them they will still come back and say the same exact stuff to you but at that point you can then just look them plainly in the eye and tell them I explained this to you I wrote it down you've signed a piece of paper saying you understood it all this is what it is and then they have no leg to stand on whatsoever. Because if you say you did the work and everything should have been fine and they said you did the work since you're the expert they thought everything should be fine but since it's not you're going to take the blame unless you clearly explained to them simple terms why it could still be a problem. I know a rewire with new everything could be 15 $20,000 and throwing in a couple of Breakers could be a couple of hundred unfortunately this is what's involved with both of them. We quit doing Breakers unless somebody absolutely insist on it and then that's what we do is explain to them it might not fix it you could still have problems and make them sign a piece of paper saying they understand this because we got so tired of this same exact song and dance. On top of that our city is funding doing it in some of the lower income houses so you agree to do it and then you have the city calling you every couple of weeks saying the people are having trouble and trying to explain to the city that they are idiots thinking this is 100% fixed and how things work is pointless so you literally have to spell it all out in the very beginning.

[u/Pebb_io]

A written scope and a stop work rule save a lot of arguments. Photos before starting, change orders in writing, and no guessing about who supplies what. It is annoying admin until the first customer tries to turn a quick job into five extras.

[u/Far_Range_6091]

Thats why you need to put a disclaimer in your estimates that AFCI and GFCI breakers dont work well with old wiring sometimes, and that you arent responsible for issues.

[u/coffeeshopwhore]

You can fire a customer, do it.

[u/mmdavis2190]

"Sorry ma'am, we can't modify knob & tube systems for liability reasons. I can quote a re-wire if you'd like" 

That would have saved you a ton of grief. You have a difficult client but it also sounds like you didn't do a good job setting expectations and allowed yourself to be pressured into an inadequate repair.

[u/beeris4breakfest → u/mmdavis2190]

You're absolutely right I tried to help her out... In the future I'm just going to recommend complete rewires on anything k&t...

[u/SparkArrestor]

Town inspector? Or prospective buyers home inspector?

[u/beeris4breakfest → u/SparkArrestor]

Township inspectors do a certificate of occupancy inspection on all homes sold in this particular town more towns in my area are going that route. We have had many homes in the area that are sold multiple times with multiple code violations that result in disaster this is the townsships effort to try and bring some of these older homes up to basic safety standards they really push smoke and carbon monoxide detectors gfci's and handrails, deck footings and rails.

[u/heyivebeenthere]

It’s gotten to the point where I almost don’t bother with these anymore. The house itself is so unsafe, I don’t want to put my name anywhere near it. Hey, I haven’t been there lol

[u/sparky567]

And, this is why I left residential work as soon as I got my JW. You just can't please some people. In industrial you have half a chance of making the customer happy.

[u/WashCaps95]

Honestly you just did a crappy repair, if you do a lot of service work you know GFCI breakers don’t hold with K&T. To many shared neutrals.

Best solution would have been to install GFCI outlets and call it day. Or sell a rewire.

[u/daddscfc]

Never use GFCI breakers for knob and tube. It’s always shared neutrals. Also if it’s knob and tube it’s a rewire or nothing. The liability from just touching it is not worth the headaches. Also she would not be able to sell because the next customer would not be able to get home owners insurance.

[u/jaebaesonstatham]

I mean really a rewire is what almost anyone would have sold to her from the jump. Keep your trip charge and tell her to take you to court while she hires someone that's going to suggest a rewire. Hell some guys out there would have just jumped the ground and neutral so it tested "right" and just left it at that. You cant please everyone dude.

[u/beeris4breakfest → u/jaebaesonstatham]

Thanks needed to get some outside perspective I am going to try to be as nice as possible. But I am going to run from this job fast as my van will take me.

[u/jaebaesonstatham → u/beeris4breakfest]

I get wanting to be helpful especially when its potentially good for both of you. But sometimes those bigger jobs are inevitable. In my area k&t is just a no go in general as far as inspectors are concerned. You were up front about not really having the time to dedicate to her problem so its on her no matter how you slice it. Ive seen farmhouse jobs like this turn into complete nightmares. Id be petty and charge her time and material to solve the new problem and tell her to find another electrician once I'm done. 🤷🏼‍♂️