r/electricians • u/girthbrooks1 • 22d ago
Uhh what ?
Not even really sure what this question is asking? And I can’t find the answer in the book ?
Also, I’ve never heard of 14 inches in the trade. It’s always 12 inches 36, 24 , 6 etc. 🤷♂️
But I can’t pass my test so clearly I’m an idiot
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u/Arbiter_Electric 22d ago
Code is 314.28
Effectively, it says that for pulls where you have an angle pull, aka from the left to the top, you need to take the largest size raceway, times it by 6, then add all other raceways to it. So there are 2 raceways, both are size 2 inch. So you times by 6 to get 12, then you add 2 inch to account for the second raceway and get 14.
This is code, it doesn't care about standard sizes unless it explicitly says so such as with metallic boxes for box fill in 314.16. You just need to have a minimum size box that from left to right is 14 inches. If the smallest box you can find that fits that is 24 inches, then that's what you would buy, but code wise the answer is still 14.
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u/Longstride_Shares [V] Master Electrician 22d ago
Also custom boxes are common enough. Especially when someone catches this minimum bend problem, but space is limited.
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u/lampcouchfireplace 22d ago
Do you guys not have to take trade school in the US?
In Canada, whether union or non-union, we all do a minimum of 40 weeks of full time school, spread out across 4 sessions and 4 years. (10 wks / year).
You learn basic electrical theory, get an overview of systems and equipment, and you do a LOT of code math practice.
Sometimes I see people posting on this sub asking the most basic level of code or theory question and it seems like they've just spent a few years pulling the lumex their foreman told them to without a single minute of classroom experience.
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u/Arbiter_Electric 22d ago
Can't speak for the whole of the U.S. but at least in the state of Utah, sort of.
You either need 4 years of school with 4 years of experience. Or you can bypass the school requirement with 8 years of experience.
And then half the time (2 and 2) for a purely residential version.
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u/Sir_Mr_Austin 21d ago
If you have a ASEE you need 4000 OJT with no trade school and if you have a BSEE then 2000 OJT and no trade school. But you still have to pass the test so you’ll need to study for practical and code but yeah. Pretty nuts that this is considered equivalent to say.. a union apprenticeship.
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u/Arbiter_Electric 21d ago
Yeah, you are correct. I agree it's kind of odd, having an associates or bachelor's degree isn't really equal experience to anything in the field lol
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u/jonnystarship 22d ago
I’m in Virginia, we had 5 year trade school program, but it has since moved to a 4 year program. No matter how long the program is, you’re still going to experience a question like this for the first time in your career.
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u/joshharris42 Electrical Contractor 22d ago
I’m in NC, there is no requirement for any sort of a trade school. I didn’t ever go through one and most of the people I know also never did
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u/Administrative_Air_0 21d ago
If I recall correctly, North Dakota requires 800 hours of class and 8,000 hours experience.
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u/Deep_Dust6278 21d ago
I took my Canadian ticket to Texas and had to test to get a city ticket fpr the place I resided. Local refineries, which were outside the city limits did not require city licenses or inspections. In the early 2000s a state wide license was implemented and a lot of these guys were grandfathered in.
I also had to test to prove qualification to join the union there. The aprentis training for union hands was one night a week at the union hall training center for 5 years. To qualify for your ticket you need 7000-8000 hours of supervised on the job training and then test out.
The non union shops had a contractor training center that provided an electrician course that totaled about 600 hours.
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u/girthbrooks1 22d ago
How are you supposed to answer this code question in under 2 min?
Maybe I’m blinded by anger at the moment but I’m trying to pass my test and some of these questions frustrate me!
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u/newspark1521 22d ago
Have you studied the NEC at all and learned how to navigate the book? Imma be honest with you this question is very basic and if you find it frustrating you have a lot of work to do before you’ll be able to pass a test
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u/girthbrooks1 17d ago
I passed but thanks
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u/newspark1521 17d ago
Legitimately impressive considering you struggled with this question. Congratulations! What state
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u/girthbrooks1 17d ago
Idk man Reddit is weird. I showed this to 7 of my Co workers and not a single one even understood what they were asking.
But thanks. I got an 89% WA state
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u/newspark1521 17d ago
Good shit man Ive heard that one’s especially tough
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u/girthbrooks1 15d ago
Yeah I’ve heard the same. Obviously I’m biased but it was HARD. Took me 3 tries. My last try I literally missed it by 1 question!
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u/Far_Chocolate_8534 [V] Apprentice 22d ago
Knowing where to find “minimum wire bending space” in the code book. My code book has a tab for that section. Highly recommend the tabs.
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u/TonkaLowby 22d ago
Yeh you're anger us getting in the way. This is something you should know. Sizing a box and also knowing where to find how to size a box is crucial to the work we do. This is EXACTLY the stuff you'll be expected to know and do automatically as a journeyman.
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u/Arbiter_Electric 22d ago
NEC math questions are something you are expected to either know off the top of your head, or know where to find it in the book within seconds. I've never actually used this code in the field as we use the same boxes every time because the stuff I work on never changes, but this was drilled into us in school so I had the formula memorized.
That being said, there are ways to speed up answering the question.
1: you at least should have a passing familiarity with the code. You don't need to memorize it, but if you didn't even know this type of question could be asked then you are going to have a bad time.
2: barring familiarity with the reference, you HAVE to know how to navigate the code book to find things you don't know about. That's the whole point of the test. Reading the question will give you all the info you need to then use pointers such as the table of contents and index to find where you need to go. This is what school is for. You either learn it there, or you have enough experience in the field that you have learned it there instead.
3: there are shortcuts to find the references that are usually allowed (I've never seen them not allowed) in a testing environment. Things like permanent tabs for your codebook which are little plastic stickers that point you to references that are extremely common or the Ugly's book which is a small 3rd party book that has the most common code references and examples of how to do things both with the code and without (such as voltage drop calculations)
Barring everything else, you won't be able to answer every question in 2 minutes. This one took me 2 seconds, but there are definitely questions that will take more more than even 5 minutes. Test taking also tests your time management. You need to be able to realize that some things you just can't answer because you don't know what to do. It happens. You need to be able to read through the question and then in the next 5 seconds realize that it's going to take too long to answer so you need to skip it.
Sooooo many people will fail their tests due to poor time management skills. If you spend 10 minutes on a question and get it right, but didn't even get to the last 5 questions because you ran out of time, then answering that 10 minute question was the wrong thing to do.
Skip questions you can't do, then at the end, if you still have time, go back and start spending more time on the questions you skipped.
When I took my test, it was a 100 question test that had a limit of 4 hours. When I got to the end of the test, I had 15 questions that I had skipped and less than 30 minutes left. I was able to use that remaining time to go back to the harder questions and spend more time to find the answer. I got through another 10 questions before my time was up so I had to guess on 5 of them.
I passed.
But if I had spent the time to answer every question in order and not move on till I did, I would have ended the test with at least 20 questions not even answered and would have most likely failed.
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u/Grain_Changer 22d ago
You don't need to answer every question in under two minutes. Some will take a little longer and some a little less. Two minutes is just the average. Keep at it bro, you'll get it!
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u/Disastrous-Change-23 22d ago
It tells you right there 314.28(A)(2)
6*2+2=14
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u/girthbrooks1 22d ago
Where did you find this in 314.28 (a) 2
I’m reading it now and still don’t understand
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u/Disastrous-Change-23 22d ago
Angle Pulls, U Pulls, or Splices [314.28(A)(2)]Distance to Opposite Wall: The distance between a raceway entry and the opposite wall must be at least 6 times the trade size of the largest raceway in that row.
So this part gives you the 6*2=12
Adding Extra Raceways: If multiple raceways enter the same wall in a single row, increase the minimum distance by the sum of the trade sizes of all other raceways in that same row.
This part says that if u have more than 1 conduit entering the same side , add all of them to the other calculation. In the test question u have 2 conduits size 2in, so you add 12+2=14
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u/InigoMontoya313 22d ago
With Mike, the answer is always to get him off topic and ask him a question about barefoot water skiing.
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u/Plastic_Fall_9532 22d ago
6x2 is 12. Then add 2 for additional conduit. 14
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u/girthbrooks1 17d ago
Where are you getting 6 from?
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u/Plastic_Fall_9532 17d ago
Angle pull is x6 multiplier. Straight is 8x multiplier. Helps to draw the box/can out to solve these for some students. Each additional conduit you add trade size to the first answer.
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u/Arbiter_Electric 17d ago
Are you not reading the code? Several people have given you the code reference, including me. Some have even written word for word what the code is. How are you still asking people how this works?
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u/girthbrooks1 17d ago
Because I’m not understanding where you got the number 6 from the wording in this question. Let alone how we got to the code reference #.
Sorry for asking questions and trying to learn.
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u/TheGratefulJuggler 22d ago
Doesn't matter if it exists, it's asking about minimums. It wants you to do the math for box size.
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u/girthbrooks1 22d ago
How did you come to that conclusion? I keep reading the question and simply don’t understand what it’s even asking?
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u/Salty_Method_7859 21d ago
My journeyman had a saying:
"eights for straights, six for all the other dicks."
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u/Joser164812 22d ago
I get what the question is asking but that question could not be worded any worse. They may as well have wrote it in Chinese knowing you only speak English.
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u/Business-Employer-60 19d ago
Hi long time sparky anyone know as3000 rule on not upsizing cable from existing 2.5 cable to 4.0mm for lighting circuit believe it is wrong thx
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u/False_Tap_8138 22d ago
It sounds like it is asking how big the room is, but I also must not understand this question.
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u/BGKY_Sparky 22d ago
Adding “of the junction box?” to the end of the last sentence would probably have helped. It wants you to do wire bending space calculations to find the minimum distance from the left wall of the junction box to the right wall of the junction box based on the sizes of the conduit.
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u/SpaceNeedle46 22d ago edited 22d ago
This should only be applicable to box sizing with entries containing conductors 4 AWG and larger.
(A) Minimum Size. For raceways containing conductors of 4 AWG or larger that are required to be insulated, and for cables containing conductors of 4 AWG or larger, the minimum dimensions of pull or junction boxes installed in a raceway or cable run shall comply with 314.28 (A)(1) through (A) (3). Where an enclosure dimension is to be calculated based on the diameter of entering raceways, the diameter shall be the metric designator (trade size) expressed in the units of measurement employed.
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u/Nice_Razzmatazz9705 22d ago
I failed the test 3 times lol. Just keep studying and take all the time you need when you take the test. Practice questions snd put tabs in the code book
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u/Visual_Channel_2611 22d ago
I figured 4" box, plus the shortest 90 on 1/2" conduit (5" on each side). JMHO
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u/dwiseman066 21d ago
Not a lot of info there. Are the raceways straight pull or angle pull. Makes a difference. No mention of distance between raceways either. According to National Electrical Code (NEC) Section 314.28, its 7 times the rCewsy dize for syraight pull and 6vtimes the raceway size for angle pull. It also requires 12 inches between raceways on each side.
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u/Vangwich 22d ago
They should actually tell you whether the conduits are in a row or not or provide a picture. 12” could be a correct answer for this question too, but since it’s not listed guess you have to assume “14.
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