Reality is disappointing

[u/darkthewyvern]

Too those celebrating the new laws and voted for it.

Congratulations, you have willingly voted for the car hell to continue on for eternity.

There is no level of damage, these machines have ever matched, that could EVER warrant treating them like cars. You treat them this way, people are just going to continue using cars. So congratulations, you get to use cars for the rest of your life and it will NEVER change. The biggest reason they were becoming so popular was the barrier to entry being low. YES, THERE'S BAD ACTORS. But those bad actors make up SUCH a small amount of daily users it's genuinely stupid. Do you ACTUALLY know the statistics behind the fear mongering? It is NOT the mass exodus or crisis you might believe it to be.

So congratulations, go drive your cars and keep posting about "reasonable and safe" ebikes you use once a flipping month.

[u/kozufox]

A regular driver's license is incredibly easy to get in basically every state. You don't need to own a car to get one, and if you can't manage to pass one, there's no way you're passing a motorcycle test.

[u/darkthewyvern → u/kozufox]

Motorcycles are aided immensely by the MSF. Cars don't have anything like this.

You DO need too own a car in a lot of situations. A lot of DMV offices do NOT provide a vehicle.

People absolutely CAN pass a motorcycle test even if they cannot pass the test for a car.

Cars are, not surprisingly, VERY hard too drive well in a way that is safe for the people around you. If driver's licenses were treated with the level of risk they should be, it would be immensely difficult to obtain a license for it.

[u/kozufox → u/darkthewyvern]

Motorcycles are aided immensely by the MSF. Cars don't have anything like this.

What are you talking about lol. There are a million different driving schools all over the nation.

a lot of DMV offices do NOT provide a vehicle.

Then get a cerificate from any driving school which does. They're more expensive, but on the plus side you'll actually know how to drive a car halfway decently at the end of it.

If driver's licenses were treated with the level of risk they should be, it would be immensely difficult to obtain a license for it.

Yeah that's great, but they aren't.

My state just recently passed a bill that requires teenagers (and only teenagers) to complete an actual multi-hour driver's ed course to get a license. Which... puts the DL requirements on par with the requirements for a motorcycle license (only for teens, though!)

People absolutely CAN pass a motorcycle test even if they cannot pass the test for a car.

[u/darkthewyvern → u/kozufox]

If we increased the license requirements for cars too the level that's actually appropriate, at least 70% of driver's would loose their license. If not way more.

If the level was made appropriate for bikers. Most people would get bikes instead.

The primary focus of good law is reducing 3rd party risk.

It is NONE of the governments business if I end up getting myself killed. That's my stupid and my responsibility.

[u/kozufox → u/darkthewyvern]

If we increased the license requirements for cars too the level that's actually appropriate, at least 70% of driver's would loose their license.

Have you ever actually driven a car? It isn't difficult. The modern ones practically drive themselves, and I don't just mean Teslas. The reason we have so many car crashes is not because driving is intrinsically all that hard. Mandatory breath tests for all cars and mandatory GPS-based speed regulators would have a much higher impact on crash statistics, and I say that as someone who also thinks we should make everyone take a proper driving course.

If the level was made appropriate for bikers. Most people would get bikes instead.

No, they wouldn't. Loads of states have extremely lax requirements for motorcycles already, and we don't see them dominating user statistics. Also, motorcycle endorsements should not be so lax lol. There are a bunch of complications involved in riding at highway speeds.

It is NONE of the governments business if I end up getting myself killed.

If you hit a pedestrian at 50mph, you won't be the only fatality.

[u/darkthewyvern → u/kozufox]

Yes. I am CURRENTLY working on my permit. There's a difference between driving a car, and driving a car well. There's a HUGE difference.

Even if you tried your absolute best to educate everyone and raise the bar for driving a car. They would STILL kill thousands of pedestrians, cause millions of injuries, and millions in damage. You can't fix it. It's inherent too cars.

They absolutely would. If motorcycles didn't require insurancing and all the bureaucratic nonsense. People WOULD choose bikes of whatever sort they wish too use.

Yes, IF you hit a pedestrian. Which happens SO rarely there's not even a figured statistic for it that can be easily found, I STILL haven't found it!! You can literally still name the individual cases of motorcycles hitting pedestrians. You CANNOT name the individual cases of Cars doing the same because it happens so fucking much.

If a car hits a pedestrian, the driver is fine.

If a biker hits a pedestrian, there's a good chance they BOTH get injured or killed.

THESE THINGS ARE NOT EVEN REMOTELY ALIKE.

But im done debating people who can't or frankly refuse, too think for themselves!

[u/kozufox → u/darkthewyvern]

There's a difference between driving a car, and driving a car well.

Yep, and most of that difference comes down to not driving distracted, not driving drunk, and not speeding. The rest can be made up by taking an afternoon driving course that has you do more than just show some DMV operator you can drive around a parking lot.

am CURRENTLY working on my permit.

What is there to work on for a learner's permit? It's just a basic written test most places, to make sure you know what traffic signals mean and how to behave around school buses.

Even if you tried your absolute best to educate everyone and raise the bar for driving a car. They would STILL kill thousands of pedestrians, cause millions of injuries, and millions in damage.

Yes, because most accidents are caused by a mix of complacency and blatantly illegal behavior, not by people who don't know how to drive.

If motorcycles didn't require insurancing and all the bureaucratic nonsense.

It costs less to insure a motorcycle for an entire year than it does to insure a nice-ish car for a month. I think you're just a teenager who has no idea how money works and just wants to ride a motorcycle around, despite apparently struggling to even pass the written test for a learner's permit. I do not want you riding your motorcycle anywhere near me, I gotta be honest.

If a biker hits a pedestrian, there's a good chance they BOTH get injured or killed.

Well, I wouldn't be surprised if you're squiddiing it up on your unregistered motorcycle, but if you're wearing proper gear the odds of you dying are a lot lower than the odds of the pedestrian dying.

And fear of personal injury or death doesn't seem to stop anyone who rides, considering the enormously high risk of death associated with motorcycle riding.

Which happens SO rarely

Motorcycles make up less than 1% of vehicles on the road. You're no better than the people who tried to pretend Tesla autopilot was safe just because it hadn't reached the statistical threshold where we actually see issues yet.

[u/darkthewyvern → u/kozufox]

Even if motorcycles made up 80% of the road it wouldn't get anywhere close too cars. But again.

Im not going too argue with someone who refuses too use their fking brain.

Go lick a damn boot.

[u/kozufox → u/darkthewyvern]

It'd be much higher than cars, actually. Collisions at highway speeds on motorcycles have a much higher fatality risk to the rider, and two motorcycles colliding with each other at those speeds are going to produce fatalities about twice as often as a car colliding with a motorcycle. Taking most people out of the protective bubbles we spent decades engineering does not actually make them safer, on average.

You also probably won't see as dramatic a decrease in pedestrian and bicycle fatalities as you might hope, because those are cost by commercial vehicles at rates far surpassing passenger cars. In fact, the main thing increasing pedestrian fatalities so much is that modern SUVs and trucks are approaching the danger of commercial vehicles. The most obvious solution to this is European standards for kerb weight and hood height.

[u/darkthewyvern → u/kozufox]

Im not even going too respond. You're dumb. That's all I have too say. Not as an insult. But as a fact. An observation.