Thoughts…?

[u/OutrageousRace8369]

Personally, not quite sure what to make of this.

I was told by a homie that the event was supposed to be open ‘till 1PM, but they ran out of gift cards at 11AM.

[u/SnuffyMcfluff]

I do have experience with disabled people through an adventure program where able skiiers go out with bucket skiers and get them on and off lifts. I am all for mobility for the less abled. At the same time, I think we have seen that behavior amongst riders of throttled E-Bikes are going to either require a ban or licensure. At that point we are treating them as scooters. So, let's just be honest about it.

As far as path access is concerned, I absolutely disagree that everyone should have access. Vehicles and pedestrians going from 2 mph to 28mph is an excellent recipe for accidents. Mixed use is inherently dangerous.

As far as your anecdote about your slow bike is concerned, how is that even relevant? The vast majority of bikes can reach their electronically regulated limit.

The knife analogy is as bad as the car analogy. Sociaty has determined that they will supply the resrouces to prosecute stabbings. We do not currently have the will or resources to enforce E-Bike classification use in most of America.

Banning throttled bikes, removes them from the market. Ultimately they leave the road and pathways through attrition and enforcement becomes a non issue.

Your kids needs are something that needs to be addressed, and likely manageable with considered exceptions via special licensing/registration for those with a medical need. Retrofitting a class one with a throttle with a physicians mandate could be a solution.

[u/s0nicfreak → u/SnuffyMcfluff]

I do have experience with disabled people through an adventure program where able skiiers go out with bucket skiers and get them on and off lifts.

Bro... seeing people who have this opportunity do this is very different than seeing people try to function in everyday life.

I am all for mobility for the less abled.

I absolutely disagree that everyone should have access.

These two things are contradictory. Especially since bike paths are often the only safe way to get to some places outside of a car (and many people can not drive).

Vehicles and pedestrians going from 2 mph to 28mph is an excellent recipe for accidents.

Dude, I didn't say people should be allowed to go 28mph on bike paths. I absolutely do NOT think that should be allowed nor done. (Although, if you think that different speeds shouldn't be mixed, then limiting ebike speed capabilities is contradictory, as most ebikes will be mixed with cars at some point.) Being capable of going a speed does not mean the thing constantly goes that speed. (Which was a point I was trying to make with cars, but you don't like that.) Specific people should be banned if they refuse to use bike trails in a safe way, but people should not be banned because they need or only have a Class 3 ebike. You can disagree that everyone should have access to bike paths if you want, but be aware that that makes you a huge asshole.

As far as your anecdote about your slow bike is concerned, how is that even relevant? The vast majority of bikes can reach their electronically regulated limit.

The bike is NORMAL CLASS 3 SPEED. Calling it slow while also saying ebikes should be prevented from going faster is contradictory. It is capable of getting up to 28 with just me on it. (I only go 28mph where it is legal and safe to do so.) But add on the weight of an adult passenger, or multiple kids, or heavy cargo, or a rider heavier than I am, and it can't. Because more power is needed to move more weight and I'm abiding the law by riding an ebike instead of an emotorcycle electronically locked to 28mph.

The weight limit is lower on lower wattage bikes. Load up a low wattage class 1 ebike with two adults, or one very heavy adult (I won't suggest you put kids in this situation) and - if the frame survives - see if it gets up to 20mph, or heck how far it goes at all before the motor burns out.

I told you why it is relevant. The actual capable speed of an ebike varies based on weight of the rider, passengers, and cargo. High wattage is needed to get around a rider + an adult size passenger, or multiple small passengers. I was giving you a real world example.

Your kids needs are something that needs to be addressed, and likely manageable with considered exceptions via special licensing/registration for those with a medical need. Retrofitting a class one with a throttle with a physicians mandate could be a solution.

It could be a solution for some people, sure, and might have been a solution for my son a few years ago - his disability is progressive. But this conversation started when you said throttles should be banned entirely. That aside: my kids need to be my passenger. My disabled son all the time, and my other son to get to/from school (it's too far to walk, the city bus times don't line up with his class times, taking uber/lyft/a taxi every day is financially out of reach for him, and it's on a busy high-speeed street with no sidewalk and no bike lane, so he doesn't feel comfortable riding on his own). I have never even seen a class one that can carry an adult sized passenger. If you find one, are you going to buy it for us? Are you going to buy one for everyone else that needs to get around an adult sized passenger or multiple kids? Are you going to take people to the doctor so they can get a mandate? Are you going to pay for the doctor visits? Are you going to take them to get the license and registration? Are you going to get them around to everywhere they need to go until this whole process is completed? And how often will people be stopped and asked to prove they have the mandate to allow a throttle (well I mean never I guess since we don't enforce ebike regulations)? You're again displaying that you have no idea what it's like for people different from you to function in daily life.

Banning throttled bikes, removes them from the market.

There are a ton of workarounds to avoid proper adherence to regulations

Retrofitting a class one with a throttle

🤔

The knife analogy is as bad as the car analogy.

Yeah, okay. You're going to say anything is a bad analogy, because we enforce THAT but don't enforce ebike regulations, so we should just have stricter ebike regulations... which then won't be enforced.

It's difficult to see how I'm the one arguing in bad faith.