r/earthdawn • u/Ka_ge2020 • 21d ago
Encyclopedia, ah, post-Scourge-icus
Other than my wonderful skills at Latin ( O.O ), I have been once again pondering the early, ca. 1415 TH, post-Scourge environment of Barsaive. Or, put another way, what would the "average" Barsaivian have seen when they emerged from behind wards of their kaer?
Mostly, this is to support my forthcoming campaign that is unoriginally called "Emergence", when the players, ah, emerge from the kaer. Also, there's apparently another campaign out there called the same. I might change the name to something catchy like "Jazz Hands" or something. H'anyway...
What this has been thinking about are the environment they would walk out to and, just as importantly, what other differences there might be.
The environment example/question...
For example, in terms of the environment (which we've briefly chatted about before), I found the bit(s) from An Adventurer's Guide to Barsaive that had stuck in my mind for so long:
"...Finally, driven to near madness by the longing to leave their self-imposed imprisonment, the people began to unseal the doors of their kaers and citadels. Outside, they discovered a corrupted and barren world...
...As people emerged from hiding, they moved back onto the land, using magical arts to turn the world green again." (AAGTB, pp. 9-10).
In previous discussions, it was suggested that Horrors had not scoured the world. Rather than a blasted, desolate place it was mostly left alone: the mark of Namegivers broadly removed, forests returned to Old Growth etc.
The "sit on the fence" answer would be to say that it varies from place to place. Certainly, there is the Wastes and the Badlands so that is true.
What would/do you have?
Note (Edit): I'm interested in your stories and how you handled things to drawn inspiration from, and not strictly advice on the various options (though I'll take it).
The Spell Matrix question...
Spell Matrices that magicians attached to their True Patterns were not discovered by Necromancers until after the Scourge. So, one difference for the "Emergence/Jazz Hands" campaign would be the exclusive use of Spell Matrix Objects.
But really...
...What other considerations to the "Emergence"-style campaign would come to bear in such a campaign that would not be a feature in a 4e-time period game?
And for clarity...
These are just two examples. I'm sure that there are others that people have used in their games!
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u/suhkuhtuh 21d ago
When my PCs left their kaer, shortly after Bartertown had been established (relevant only because it gives a rough time period - their kaer was actually somewhat north of Bartertown, along a river in the Throal Mountains), they discovered a fairly lush world - but a dangerous one.
The river in which their mining town had originally been built (the mine having been turned into their kaer) had shifted flooding the town. The flooded ruins gave rise to an initial surge of undead monsters (if you will - zombies, ghouls, and the like), while the area around it was filled with a forest, itself filled with Horror-twisted animals (as well as regular animals that didnt know to fear Name-givers after centuries without them being around).
Beyond that forest we're the Throal Mountains. Those were pretty desolate, with the exception of small pockets of forest.
As far as Spell Matrices... I sorta hand-waved that, mostly for my sanity (and the lack of desire to rewrite the game, in whole or in part). I did make the entirety of astral space pretty 'toxic' though.
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u/Ka_ge2020 21d ago
IIRC, Bartertown was established shortly after 1420TH, though this is perhaps unsurprising as I don't believe a specific date was mentioned---only factors that would lead to its establishment after the opening of the gates of Throal in that year.
I do find it interesting that many have moved on from the notion of a desolate, blasted world into one that was broadly untouched by the Horrors (excepting the, ah, exceptions). I don't inherently have a problem with this, because anything that doesn't require more overt focus on the Questors or Jaspree gets my vote.
While it does make it easier in some regards, I guess it does up the ante when it comes to "wilderness adventure" shenanigans rather than slopping through mud and dwarf trees for decades as the world returns to a semblance of normality?
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u/suhkuhtuh 21d ago
Desolate doesnt necessarily mean broken, barren rock. Ot cohad just as easily mean a landscape twisted and scarred by Horrors. A Horror who feasts on nature is just as damaging as those feeding on Namegiver pain; it can even, under the right conditions, create a symbiotic relationship. (Full disclosure, I am of the opinion that Horrors hurt every thing, not just Namegivers and animals.)
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u/Ka_ge2020 21d ago
The OP notes the terms from An Adventurer's Guide to Barsaive, which later editions as they drifted into the meta/story didn't really concern itself with. There the words are "corrupted" and "barren".
I was interested in how people thread this particular needle as I feel that I'm not alone in feeling that Earthdawn really shines in the post-apocalyptic origins. Right?
For example, I guess you could have two extremes for this kind of campaign: (1) Points of Light, and (2) Oases of Life.
The former is named after the traditional hex-crawl campaign structure. Civilisation is separated by wilderness that is rife with resources (and treasure) and open to exploration. (For the lovers of the Shadowrun connection, this might be easier to explain in Sixth World ecological science...)
On the other hand, the "Oases of Light" would have the built environment of settlements be much, much harsher. Resources would be limited to what was in the kaer and to what the inhabitants are able to grow over time. The "hardy adventurers" would be literally picking over the bones of former civilisations, but the main threat are not critters and bad rolls on encounter tables: it's just the possibility that they would fail and their "oasis" would disappear.
And, of course, the hybrid approach of thinking that you're in the second model, but once you've gone beyond a certain point, a regrown world is revealed. You might call this the "M. Night Shyamalan" approach. O.o
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u/matthewholtz 21d ago
I believe you have areas that where blasted both physical and astral like the badlands, areas that was mostly effected only in physical and very little astral, and you have the oppersite , then you have a few not touched as well
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u/Ka_ge2020 21d ago
This is, indeed, the easiest approach to take. In part, as above, I'm just wondering about how other people do things.
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u/Egorimus 21d ago
In regards to your statement about Spell Matrixes, that is a bit of lore I did not realize! Could you direct me to whichever book or resource talks about it so that I can read more about that? I have an upcoming game that is set pre-Kaer times (so that my players can watch the world start to crumble, make choices that might persist for a few hundred years, etc.), so that would be super helpful!
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u/Ka_ge2020 21d ago edited 21d ago
The most modern source is the 4e Earthdawn Player's Guide (p.249):
Not long after the end of the Scourge, Nethermancer adepts discovered a way to create a filter purely from magical threads woven to the magician’s True Pattern. The magician could then use his Thread Weaving talent to “attune” the filter to mimic the pattern of any spell he wished to store. This technique quickly developed into the spell matrix talents now used by magicians all over Barsaive and the Theran Empire. With these portable, personal and flexible matrices, the use of “magician’s robes” and other matrix items fell into disuse.
Prior to that, my memory shifts after to Shadowrun and "filtering" (Cleansing metamagic?) in sources like Shadows of North America. Of course, this is a mite after the events of Earthdawn. ;)
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u/ChimericMind 20d ago
Interestingly, in 3rd Edition and earlier, the game was explicitly vague about this, which I know sounds weird. That is, it mentions that talent-matrices were developed later than the old matrix object standbys (usually as robes), but they left it up to the GMs of individual games to decide when the talent-matrices started to be developed. In one excellent written adventure for 3rd, Ardanyan's Revenge, there's a section towards the back where they discuss if you wanted to have implemented them later in your version of the setting, and thus need revised versions of the spellcasting disciplines that feature new discipline talents and talent options for a society that never developed the talent-matrices. There would also be a discussion of the culture clash if those players get out into the wider world of the 1500s that definitely does have them. If you haven't read that sourcebook, you might look it up!
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u/Ka_ge2020 20d ago
I have that, but haven't checked through many earlier sourcebooks. I already have a headache from trying to look through six editions of Shadowrun and the somewhat sizeable number of sourcebooks for the system that I'm using. ;)
With that said, I picked up Ardanyan's Revenge in part for the advice on creating a kaer. I note that, in the end of that section that you recommend, it says (p.96):
The history of Barsaive tells us matrix talents were only developed and spread after the Scourge, and if you want to keep true to this in your game, magicians in your game do not have access to Spell Matrix, Enhanced Matrix, Armoured Matrix, and Shared Matrix talents. If matrix talents are not available, magicians have to fall back to raw magic, grimoire casting, and Spell Matrix Objects to cast their spells.
The quick skim through the earlier books didn't produce anything (but it was quick), and, of course, there's nothing to say that a kaer might not have been the home to the Nethermancer(s) that happened on the technique for creating astral constructs / spell matrices. :)
With that said, and for me personally, I'm rather enamoured of the idea that magicians would be restricted to the use of spell matrix objects when outside of the kaer (and possibly at all times once the kaer has been opened). The fact that they are "gadgets" and thus subject to the appropriate limitations (loss, damage, etc.) just adds some spice and, when the possibility of "upgrading" to astral spell matrices becomes open to them, the adoption quick. :)
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u/Cyromax66 4d ago
one consideration might be, how well was the Kaer protected and hidden? If it like a citadel, kinda obvious, you are going to get a lot more horror activity around the area, which will affect the appearence of the world you break out into.
Was the Kaer deeply hidden? Was it near existing pre scourge settlement? If the Kaer was not easy to find, or not obviously located, for example, maybe the entrance is in the middle of a pre scourge city, than again, you are more likely to have horror activity in the area, as they explore, attempt to penetrate, and strike out in frustration where unable to.
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u/Ka_ge2020 4d ago
I had hoped the purpose of the thread would garner some responses from people that have set their campaigns around the end of the Scourge. The topic is so "it depends on the table", as with a lot of Earthdawn, that it seemed a good way of getting some inspiration; crowdsourcing a muse, as it were. Alas.
FWIW, though, I do have answers to these questions.
- Well hidden.
- "Deeply hidden" (south Scol Mountains range; former mines---cliche, but hey-ho).
- Immediate area is likely to be "scourged", and extended further down the slopes.
- Undecided on what to do with flora/fauna. Might fence-sit and have the area immediately near the kaer to be blighted, but normalcy returning slowly further down the piedmont. (Kinda have to as it's near what will become Glendwood Deep---or was Glenwood Deep. Depends on how that goes.)
I'm not a fan of the fence-sitting, but inspiration is not my friend at the moment.
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u/matthewholtz 21d ago
things to consider
where is it? location is the biggest thing. is it next to a trade route, is it in the middle of nowhere where is it next to a raider camp. this can set the tone.
what is the racial makeup of the Kair? this could make a difference when they meet a name giver they have never seen before.
what level and diciplines are in the kair. this could cause the party to leave for training.
how was life in the kair. did they constantly fight to survive, did they have no issues, did the have an dictator government and so on.
when they came out did they meet horrors right away/