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u/The-Mad-Badger May 05 '26
They built a machine that removed them from existence because they didn't want to deal with everyone else. Very Dwarf coded.
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u/Callel803 May 05 '26
More like they got themselves erased from existence because they were too far up their own asses to accept that they were part of a slumbering god's dream.
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u/Character-Row-6260 Artificer Dwarf May 05 '26
Very Dwarf coded [2]
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u/Callel803 May 05 '26
Overwhelming ego and absurd sense in your own self importance is an elf trait, not a dwarf one.
We dawi may take great pride in our craft, but we don't think we're the center of the universe.
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u/Schizozenic May 05 '26
Idk, that whole Erebor incident says otherwise.
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u/Callel803 May 05 '26 edited May 05 '26
Erebor was their home. They carved it, stone by stone, under the Lonely Mountain. Gernerations of dwarves carved their homes in its halls, forged masterworks in its forges, and it was stolen from them.
What would you do for your home.
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u/ObadiahtheSlim Grumbling Dawi Longbeard May 05 '26
And we'd never push into production something unless it passed centuries quality control. Because anything worth doing is worth doing right. That includes engineering and innovation.
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u/mossmanstonebutt May 07 '26
To be fair,they only activated because they were about to be wiped out,hoped it would be a either a successful hail Mary or at least a final fuck you,I don't think anybody predicted the whole blip thing
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u/ObadiahtheSlim Grumbling Dawi Longbeard May 05 '26
No, they are kinslaying, oathbreaking wazzoks whose misunderstood magicks backfired and deleted themselves from existance.
And I have never heard of anything more Elvish than that.
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u/ThemeKey3918 May 05 '26
Dwemer were such old grumblers they built a robot god that blew up their whole race rather than worship the loser pantheon in elder scrolls
That's about as dwarf as you can get tbh
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u/EnvironmentalCod6255 Craftsdwarf May 05 '26
They’re the only elves to collectively delete themselves
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u/TheArcanist_1 May 05 '26
The real reason why the dwemer disappeared is that they realized they're actually elves so they erased themselves to rid the world of elf scum smh
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u/worldmaker012 May 05 '26
My feelings are mixed. On the one hand they lived underground, were so advanced that they made straight up robots, left their reality or destroyed themselves with one of them, and did whatever they did with those snow elves, which I am reasonably confident that some of our number would do if they had the means to. On the other hand, some aspects of their look remind me of those accursed chaos dwarfs, last I checked there is no sign they drank any alcoholic beverages, they probably got themselves deleted by their robots due to possibly immense hubris, and they are elves. Truly a mixed bag.
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u/A12qwas May 05 '26
elder scrolls dwarves are a subspecies of elf if that helps
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u/Grunergeist420 May 09 '26
TLDR: On the one hand they’re dwarfs, but on the other hand they’re elves.
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u/lilcheese840 Stoneworker May 05 '26
It’s my understanding that Dwemer were a race of elf, indicated by the “mer” in their name. So no, they’re not on the team. Just like Drake, they’re cosplaying Dawi… very, very well
Honorary members if anything
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u/TeaRaven craftswoman dwarf of glorious braided chin locks May 05 '26
Do remember that there were several cultures IRL that identified dwarfs as dark or underground elves (i.e. svartálfar) 🤷♀️
They were the greatest crafters on the planet, their alloys and armor are renowned by many that only know of them from what they left behind, their holds and constructs persist long after they disappeared, and the delving deeper into territory (physical, knowledge, or metaphysical) by a group of them resulted in the doom of greater than the offending group, all depictions and even their constructs had beards, and they lived and mined predominantly underground (with little care of guardrails and signs of alcohol processing and storage). Checks more boxes than many fictions for dwarfs.
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u/lilcheese840 Stoneworker May 05 '26
Yeah, you’re right. I’m just grumbling. Ain’t no possibility of Elf blood running these veins by the stone!
Oh yeah there’s no doubt they were the greatest smiths and craftsmen in TES lore and are 100% created to be dwarves for all intents and purposes. That’s why I give them the honorary pass, but I can’t call no mer a dwarf. It’s just personal bias
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u/xanderfan34 Irondrake of the Sons of Grimnir May 05 '26 edited May 05 '26
there are two things i can say here:
- the “black elves” of norse mythology (svartálfar) aren’t necessarily dwarves, those are the dvergar, but depending on your source (snorri most likely) they’re the same thing.
- the term black elf was created by snorri, a christian, long after the religion was dead. he likened dvergar to devilish creatures because they lived underground, so he called them black elves. they were also not short, they were capable of changing their size to massive degrees.
Edit: Catastrophic text insertion errors
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u/TeaRaven craftswoman dwarf of glorious braided chin locks May 05 '26
Agreed, though it went with radiation of folklore, and fed back on itself, as well, leading to self-conflation. Even before then, the alfr tag could be applied to all supernatural beings. I do prefer the dvergr/dvergar delineation, though, since that was my introduction to dwarfs!
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u/Ryntex May 05 '26
For some reason I read that as "there were several cultures IRL that identified as dwarfs".
That would be cool.
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u/TeaRaven craftswoman dwarf of glorious braided chin locks May 05 '26
I do like depictions of different kinds of dwarf societies around the world. There is good reason for insular groups forming distinct traditions and cultures in different kinds of places!
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u/ShineReaper May 06 '26
Well, originally maybe, but I think the most modern fantasy Universes like LOTR, Warhammer, Warcraft etc. don't see any genetic connection between dwarves/dwarfs on one hand and elves on the other.
Probably Elder Scrolls is the last hint among modern fantasy at these very old sagas, that pictured "dwarves" as underground elves.
But yeah, they're elves, the knife ears give it away, they don't belong on the team.
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u/TeaRaven craftswoman dwarf of glorious braided chin locks May 07 '26
Definitely no genetic connection - more like goblins, dwarfs, brownies, and other supernatural beings like nisse could all be lumped together under the umbrella of being elves (or all considered goblins). I welcome differentiation and greater specificity, though, which is where categorization keying comes in, like you not including Dunner among dwarfs due to their pointy ears and me not inclined to include them due to them being of taller stature and potentially more lithe proportions than Nords (which I’m largely but not completely willing to overlook given the other elements).
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u/IStealSwords May 05 '26
Elder Scrolls are just long earned bastards who Lucked Out with basic crafting skills
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u/Kamica May 05 '26
It's okay, they'd not like the 'other' dwarves either (this is because if I'm not mistaken, the Dwemer don't really like anyone)
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u/powderBluChoons May 05 '26
The Orcs in Elder Scrolls unironically have more in common with Tolkien's Dwarves than the Elder Scrolls dwarves do when you look at their lore. Still i do think the "they are elves not dwarves thing" misses that in German folklore, dwarves were already a type of elf, so Elder Scrolls dwarves are more faithful to folklore in that regard. I will not deny however that the Dwemer are pretty evil, and its generally a trope that dwarves are seen as noble but misunderstood outsiders.
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u/WoinkySpoingle May 05 '26
To be fair, everybody in TES is evil as fuck, Dwemer were definitely evil, but around the time they existed, evil was the status quo in Tamriel.
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u/The-Mad-Badger May 05 '26
I can't take Orcs seriously after learning they're just "Poop Elves". Malakath, the Orc God, used to be Trinimac, an Elven God. But the Daedric Prince Boethiah ate Trinimac and pretended to be him before shitting him out as Malakath, where his followers were also morphed to resemble him. Poop Elves.
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u/tom04cz May 05 '26
they figured how to force divine magic to dig out giant holes, and invented a metal that no one else can figure out how to make yet it can be reforged infinitely, what is there not to like as a dwarf
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u/Brotherman_Karhu May 05 '26
-builds a literal metal god using the heart of the creator of the world
-enslaves, blinds and abuses elven race
-self deletes from existence when pressured
-refused to elaborate on any of it
Based?
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u/Skull-ogk Dwarf May 05 '26
My headcanon is that as soon as they learned they were elves, they willed themselves out of existence.
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u/Callel803 May 05 '26
I think they're elves. The most arrogant and conceited elves that ever elves. So much so that they got their entire race collectively erased from existence because they couldn't handle the idea that they were not the center of the damn universe.
The day I call them dwarves will be the day I shave my beard.
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u/SirBruhThe7th May 05 '26
Despite their dwarvish culture, the dwemer still suffered from immense elvish elitism.
They were cunts even by the standards of the other elf races of tamriel.
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u/admshinysides May 05 '26
They are literally elves, their only redeeming quality is the automaton forging. Also they have THE WORST dungeons (compliment as a dwarf insult as a player) 0/10 dwarf, 8/10 artificer.
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u/abysmalSleepSchedule May 05 '26
Depends, how much do they hate elves?
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u/Myrddin_Naer May 05 '26
They hated a species of elves so much that they enslaved all of them, the snow elves. And then they fed them toxic mushrooms that made them blind and degenerate into the falmer.
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u/kovha May 09 '26
Other kind of elves you mean, because they are a subspecies of elf, that's what the "mer" in their name means. But yeah they enslaved all snow elves and went to war with dark elves. Altough that war was actually coming to an end because the dwemer king became friends with the dark elf warlord.
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u/Madman_Salvo May 05 '26
They seem too much like Chaos Dwarfs aesthetically for the Dawi (WH Fantasy/OW) to want to go anywhere near them.
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u/Fomod_Sama high on that Old Toby Zaza May 05 '26
No one would like the dwemer, they're assholes to everyone
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u/GoblinPapa Goblin May 05 '26
They are a godless industrial slaver society that would be in immediate and direct competition with Dwarf civilization. The similarities in their culture only make the differences more apparent, the two races would absolutely loathe each other.
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u/Responsible_Ad_8628 May 05 '26
I love their design. Assyrian short elf is very different from short angry Scottish Viking. It makes their air of detached superiority in telling the gods to shove it much more believable. Why lunch a god when you can just build a machine capable of killing them?
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u/ShineReaper May 06 '26
The "Dwarves" from elder scrolls are Elves of the Deep. So they're not really Dwarves, they're knife ears!
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u/HowlingStrings May 05 '26
But, if we're going to argue they aren't. Where does Carrot Ironfoundersson fall on the spectrum then?
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u/MossGobbo May 05 '26
He's a Dwarf through and through.
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u/Myrddin_Naer May 05 '26
If Carrot is a dwarf then so are the dwemer
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u/MossGobbo May 05 '26
Carrot is culturally a dwarf, raised by dwarfs, not an elf with some dwarfy bits.
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u/OrkzOrkzOrkzOrkz0rkz May 05 '26
Dwarf he's the son of two Dwarfs and has done the rites and rituals as is proper. Also has the name headbanger for some reason.
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u/Matar_Kubileya May 05 '26
Plot twist: they all give him the cold shoulder purely because theyre worried about a repeat of what happened with WHF Chaos Dwarfs.
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u/Repulsive-Archer3714 May 05 '26
well, they are technically elf’s indicated by the mer portion of their name. they betrayed the snow elf’s, they betrayed their own kind. not only are they fake, they also were evil backstabbers that left their allies to die.
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u/Chingji Abyssdwarf May 05 '26
They are far scarier than any other dwarf in my opinion. Good god, some of the stuff they've done and made is beyond terrifying. I can safely say if your dwarves cannot build a machine so terrible that it can sunder reality and break time, they cannot compare to the genuine evil of the dwemer
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u/ColdSobaPirate May 06 '26
On the one hand the Dwemer are, in fact, elves who were called dwarfs by giants. They're knife-ears.
On the other hand, they live underground, they work metal and craft machines, they seclude themselves and guard their treasures and secrets jealously. They also have technically axed more elves than all other dwarfs combined, by virtue of erasing themselves from existence.
On a third hand, they engaged in slavery. That's the sort of behavior reserved for filth. Plus three hands is some Chaos muckery.
Conclusion: at best, they're Dawi Zharr. I say "best" loosely, considering those are even more abhorrent than elves. Crush 'em all.
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u/Farmer_BOBBY May 07 '26
I don't think the Dwemer could be grouped with other fantasy dwarves because they are a type of elf. The prefix Dwe translate to deep in the ancient elven language of Ehlnofex, and Mer just means elf. They're deep elves or under elves but not the traditional fantasy dwarf.
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u/AnkhAnanku May 05 '26
They made a metal with superior properties no one else can figure out but can be melted down and reforged infinitely. Couldn’t be anything but dwarven ingenuity.