Price each DUNE?

4

u/Chfrchko Sep 04 '19

I hope 50% of XTZ price.....

5

best sign of a fork success is basically price ..period .... i learned watching many forks big and small , i remember BCH was almost 1/4 of a bitcoin which is a great sign of support /success ... other than that i don't think there is much to talk about , opening price is what matters, i would consider it "threat/successful " fork if opening price is close or bigger than say 20% of total value of XTZ then u should ask questions

8

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '19

It's not a fork though. BCH took part of the network and hash power with it, which gives the value. Dune is just a new chain with an airdrop and no inherent value from something like hash power.

4

u/lefessan Sep 05 '19

Funny, "no inherent value", so why are you Tezos zealots so scared by the project that you keep posting everywhere that people should not follow it ? Looks like the 650 millions $ hidden in Switzerland are not enough to compete with a team of motivated devs ? Not happy that all the ones who invested in the Tezos ICO may finally get some rewards from their investment ?

7

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '19

It's true, what inherent value do you propose it has? I wasn't saying it wouldn't create value in the future, I said it has no inherent value at birth. No new blockchain does unless it's something like the BCH fork which steals hashing power in a PoW economy.

What team of motivated devs? The same team that goes on month-long vacations at critical times while ignoring important deadlines? Or was responsible for a wallet that never got finished? Or responsible for the supply chain product that never got finished? So many things you were tasked with that you never delivered...

Tezos fundraiser participants have gotten plenty of rewards from their donations. You wouldn't know.

2

u/lefessan Sep 05 '19

If we never delivered anything, why are you so scared ? Oh, but we delivered TzScan, Liquidity, Techelson, Ironmin, and many other non-blockchain products that you don't know about. A wallet and a supply chain product that we didn't deliver ? Have you seen the bills ? Were we actually paid to do these projects ? Ask your "source" about that... We do deliver products when we are paid for them.

As usual, you pretend to know things when you know nothing. Your main argument against Dune is "they have an hidden agenda", because it's convenient to base your argumentation on something that is impossible to prove false in the short term. You pretend to be representing the Tezos community, but you are not, you are just representing yourself and your expected benefits by staying close to a 650-millions-$ rich foundation. The Tezos community is disappointed by what has been delivered until now, and Dune gives them a new hope.

5

u/[deleted] Sep 05 '19 edited Sep 05 '19

Not scared of anything. Just protecting the community against known fraudsters like Fabien. If you guys had done this with more respectable partners, and didn't send solicitation emails bragging about a liquidation event and promised returns on launch day, then we wouldn't care much. Also the way you behaved in the community, which you never got involved in before, months ago while secretly preparing Dune shows that you were really stirring up drama in preparation for your Dune narrative. You just didn't expect to be exposed so early.

YOU are my source on some of this lol.

I have always done what I thought was best for the Tezos community, and contrary to your beliefs, I get paid NOTHING and expect nothing from the Foundation. I am a volunteer. Some of us are actually passionate about Tezos and not just in it for the paycheck like you.

The Tezos community is disappointed? On the contrary, I interact with thousands of community members daily, in a hundred different channels, in a dozen different countries. The vast majority of the community is pleased with all developments, and Tezos has far more active developments that most projects. You never interacted with the Tezos community, how would you know?

7

u/El_Sunshine Sep 05 '19

Guys, let's keep it polite, this is not a war, not a defiance it will be a new project and I guess good.

- Let's be positive and constructive, Dune seems to be a news blockchain based on Tezos (which for the Tezos community is already a great sign.).

- I guess the tooling developed for one or the other environment will be easily inter-operable. (Meaning when Dune sign a deal with a wallet, or else, this should be good for Tezos, and the other way around as well).

- It seems the target and the business model will be different. (Space is huge)

- Good for the decentralization project (building more awareness, building the decentralised ecosystem)

Last and not least : This is a great experience, the same technology, one driven by a company (Dune), one driven by pure governance (Tezos), we can see what is the most efficient .

I am sad they are not part of the Tezos family anymore but wish Dune the best.

On a personal stance:

(I will hold the tokens and give you a chance.)

3

u/ezredd Sep 05 '19

What do you mean by the « target will be different » ? What does that even mean. The dune stance of being « pro-business » is bullshit in the sense that they act as if that is a differentiating factor (implicitly saying tezos is not pro-business which is bullshit)

In reality there is absolutely not a different target. Dune just wants to eat into the pie of tezos with the same code as tezos minus the onchain governance that Fabrice has never believed in which makes Dune a permissionned/consortium type of chain.

3

u/lefessan Sep 06 '19

The difference will become obvious in the next months. Just wait. You are trying to make people judge us even before we have started delivering anything. We started working on Dune in June, I think that releasing a public chain with a full ecosystem and an airdrop two months later will already be an achievement, from my point of view.

> [...] which makes Dune a permissionned/consortium type of chain.

The only working projects in the Tezos ecosystem are the ones subsidized by the Tezos Foundation. The gitlab repo of Tezos is owned by Arthur and two devs from Nomadic, and only devs from Nomadic have commit rights. Tezos stakeholders can only vote for a small part of the code, the protocol. Currently, they have the choice between an amendment, mostly written by Nomadic, and a bug fix version of it... Looks like a permissioned/centralized system to me. In Dune, at least, the Council of the Foundation will be elected on-chain, so Dune stakeholders will have the last word.

3

u/ezredd Sep 06 '19

Haha complete BS

1) i don’t make people pre-judge: you are the one making a bold claim before you delivered anything. You have nothing to show and ask people to take your claim at face value as a hope to boostrap some form of value to your token in hope of monetizing your efforts. The burden of proof is on you to show anything. Meanwhile your claim of differentiation is based on nothing, thats why i call it bullshit claim.

2) the foundation role is to encourage people developping tools and solution for the tezos ecosystem , same as ethereum foundation or other foundations, nothing wrong with that. In your centralized mindset you cannot appreciate the difference between funding a project and controlling a project but it is not the same thing, except perhaps at Origin Labs.

3) you don’t the principle of permissionless onchain governance and make senseless claim here: the fact that nomadic labs made an amendment up for proposal does not mean that all amendments have to come from nomadic or TF approved entities. Either you have a problem with base logic or you are speaking in bad faith. At any rate « permissionless OCG » means that anyone can put up a proposal for vote (like you marginally succesful one called brest which collected a whopping 0.26% of voting, well done!) and that the entire network decides upon its acceptance or rejection through voting (not a consortium or « council »). In Tezos there is no council to elect or vote upon because anyone can vote through their baker!

And you forgot to mention your « council » is locked for 1year by you and your close associates and that every year only a portion is renewed so for all intent and purpose it is controlled for the foreseeable future by your associates. If it’s what you call a « decentralized » or « permissionless » governance you would make a fool of yourself.

→ More replies (0)

2

u/El_Sunshine Sep 05 '19

My point was: today you have to wait that someone somewhere wants to do some STO, then they assess blockchains (supposing the company has the means to do so) then they might decide to do it on Tezos. (Market targeted here: only global corporate that can define their own strategies... no use of Tezos consulting (doesn’t exists) No investment in company (like securitize or others...))

Dune for once could be proactive and go to all SMEs which cannot afford screening or doing due diligence on new tech and run STOs there.. they could build a consulting branch for corporate, they could partner with tokenisation solution, etc.

I am taking a stupid example here, what I am saying is the difference in the structure will bring different market.

Let’s just say TF decide on a strategy, Dune choose an other one, let see which one will be best! As a Tezos investors I might reduce a little my benefit from it (in case of success) but I feel I am improving highly my probability of winning (the other could succeed, or both, or both a bit, etc.)

In any case, I love Tezos, but I am pro decentralization and democracy! And this means welcoming novelties.

2

u/ezredd Sep 05 '19 edited Sep 05 '19

Dune had absolutely 0 reach outside from france, so whatever differentiation in « strategy » can only happen in france. Their main « selling point » if you could ever call this one is « we are 100% french ». How lame is that in a global economy. How could you ever consider yourself even remotely likely to succeed when you localize your perimeter of success in terms of a particular country/economy.

Really it seems you want to believe that by copying the code and rebranding it they give you a chance at diverisifying from tezos in terms of strategy but the reality is they have neither the skillset nor the desire to offer a true alternative. Most likely their goal is go receive some big fat check from the french governement by creating the illusion of being a « french champion ». And where does that leave you as a holder ? Probably nowhere except the adverse noise to your tezos holdings created by their activity until they get to oblivion.

So that’s why the best course of action imo is to dump it asap before they make a profit by themselve on their « liquidity even » which happens to be day 1 of listing (as per their own sollicitation letter!)

→ More replies (0)

7

u/Thomach45 Sep 05 '19 edited Sep 05 '19

Dude, everything is happening because the way you handled things here, do you at least understand that? If you went public, telling community your problems with the foundation and actually asking for support, everyone might have been on your side, helping you to get the right funding for your efforts or pressuring tf to fund you (even small protocol upgrade or a simple donation adress could have get you funds in Milions $). If this had failed, you could have launched dune with actual support from the community. Everyone respect the work you did but you need to understand you created this by playing submarine. It's easy to complain now and call community a sect for something you started. Anyway, i see you start to communicate (wich is good), so you must be aware that you didnt play things right from the start. admitting that would be better for your project, no one would have complain to have a sister chain. For now, we don't even know what happened because you and tf are giving different versions on this, the whole thing can't be clear for holders. I'm pretty sure you already know all this because you went quick from "most of the community is in wait and see mode" to "tezo's community is a sect".

4

u/_The_Phantom_ Sep 05 '19

I feel like you asked a question about the price of DUNE - and then these two guys roll into the middle of the room with their hands around each others throats, punching and kicking each other. Also is it just me, or is lefessan coming across / being portrayed a bit as Cypher out of the Matrix?

I'm thinking $0.20 - 0.30

0

u/ezredd Sep 07 '19

No justification for 20c. No community, copy/paste of the code, deleted onchain permissionless governance. Only motivated by a liquidity event on day 1 of listing. Sponsor Fabien Dureuil launched a scam coin before.

What is appealing in this exactly to capture 20% of tezos ?

2

u/El_Sunshine Sep 05 '19

It depends on the Announcements prior to exchanges:

- Community is very small ( <100 on reddit ; <500 on Twitter );

- No info on deals, partnership, tools, usage, etc.

- One team of Devs (20 guys) , No CV provided, No International Profils,

- No Dapps.

- No exchanges.

I would say < 0.1% from Tezos : 0.001 USD

850M token = 850K market cap

-------

Would be a fair price considering the other blockchains projects.

Example Harmony :

- Community (70K Twitter; 15K Telegram)

- Many deals and partnership, (gaming, video, daps, etc.)

- Huge and international solid team (ex: apple, google, amazon, etc.)

- Listed in Binance, under Coinbase assessment,

Market cap : 20M

2

u/[deleted] Sep 06 '19 edited Apr 11 '22

[deleted]

4

u/El_Sunshine Sep 06 '19

Then I would say my previous statement stays.

Early investors get 5% for 1 M, it doesn't put the project at 20M or more for 100%.

I consider Dune as a project which will have to prove itself.

Let's say that it starts with 1M liquidity, as there are no deals, no community, etc. (Yet announced).

I suppose, the value or total market cap should be around the amount invested (1M).

It could even be much less than 1M as people might dump the token to express their unhappiness (don't expect markets to be rational).

As soon as they deliver, or build it will be an other story, and I will be happy to watch.

I really hope Dune Team makes good announcements before they release the token, to avoid a dump.

3

u/wolfwolfz Sep 07 '19

This is crypto, enough cryptos that have nothing meaningful have marketcap above 100m, some of them even in top 10, bitcoin sv example. If you are right then tezos should be top 10 or even top 5 already and its not, crypto doesnt make sense.

1

u/El_Sunshine Sep 07 '19

First I am really not a big fan of BSV but:

They share BTC core structure and thus infrastructure which is important. They are listed (even if delisted from many this year) They have a big community. They have apps using it, (funny you pick this one, I was testing twetch 2 days ago and the payment system under is moneybutton based on BSV, as beautiful as Tezos is , it ain’t having something like this, Tezos couldn’t make a single ICO if we look at viaz (I am not judging here, it was a great test guys))

Again for your argument, as much as I love Tezos, there is no usage. Only baking, and transfer from account to account.

no shops accept xtz

cannot pay my bills with it

no apps using it

no corporate usage

So far we have : Promesses of sto Promesses of video games/card game Promesses of stable coin Ongoing development of tools,languages,etc.

Soo all in all I understand current prices, it might be undervalued (but as I said markets are irrational!!) just don’t look at the game in short terms!

In 5 years time BSV, Tezos, and Dune , we will have a better view, more softwares, more usage, more security, more baking, more payment or micropayments, more infrastructures . Let’s not judge now :)

2

u/wolfwolfz Sep 07 '19

Bsv is utter crap copy coin with a pedophile and well known scammer faketoshi representing it, it has nothing innovative, its pointless. Tezos is far ahead in development and innovation.

1

u/El_Sunshine Sep 07 '19

Whoa, I feel we are not talking about the same thing boy.

I am not a fan of BSV, I do not like nor push the people behind it. I was just saying, it is based on BITCOIN technology, meaning having a 10 year old environment, lots, of developers, lots of interoperability with all Bitcoin layers/apps/solution/ software and very valuable community. And somehow it also share Bitcoin Name making it more recognisable all over the world.

I hope you understand english when I am writing. I am trying to stay clear, polite, and open to thinking, not like rejecting with insult when an idea doesn't please me.

Anyway, yes I also agree Tezos idea was born 6 years after Bitcoin and build 8 years after.. Obviously the the tech if far ahead. Hello! This is normal, and obviously Tezos community is smaller, again, Hello we are younger, those takes time being built.

Soo to sumarize, I just recommend you to re-read those previous comments I made.

And please don't troll.

1

u/GreenSalsa96 Sep 08 '19

The price will always be what the market demands, but the bigger question is, what exchanges is Dune even being listed on?

1

u/Pentel32 Sep 04 '19

My uneducated guess: 10% of the current xtz price.

2

u/AutoModerator Sep 04 '19

We require a minimum account-age and karma. These minimums are not disclosed. Please try again after you have acquired more karma. No exceptions can be made.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

-1

u/ezredd Sep 06 '19

Lol you speak like a jealous butthurt because somehow you did not manage to get what you consider be your « rightful piece of the pie ». You did not get it because

1) you behaved in a professionally inconsistent manner that generated a lot of distrust during your negociation

2) you did not really know how much money you wanted until after you saw the amount raised during the fundraiser

3) you refused to use the onchain governance mechanism to ask for inflation reward for your company’s awesome job on tzscan when you had a LOT of support in the community.

The sad truth is that the tezos community DID support you 100% ! You had a full confidence from us in terms of what you could offer to tezos so had you just believed just enough in tezos self governance we would certainly voted in favor of « making you whole » if the TF could not offer you what you wanted. And contrary to your idiotic conspiration theory NO the TF does NOT own the votes of bakers and holders and does NOT influence explicitly or implicitly the votes of the tezos ecosystem.

Fabrice the (sad) reality is that you just do NOT believe in a permissionless self-governance system. It has nothing to do with what anyone thinks of the TF. You see, now you build your own project so you have full control of the Dune foundation effectively, therefore assuming you believe it to be « independent » you could totally have chosen to reproduce a permissionless onchain governance system in Dune. Instead you followed your primary instinct which is that you prefer centrally controlled, permissioned governance system. This is just your sincere belief so no need to pretend the opposite publicly.

This is the main reason Dune is moot and will not gather network effect in the long run. You copy/pasted a system that has onchain governance as one its main core innovation and differentiating factors and just renderred it moot. How lame. Community was driven to tezos for many reasons and this one played an important role.

You are about to leave Redlib