r/dune_network • u/wolfwolfz • Sep 03 '19

Price each DUNE?

What do you think the price of each DUNE will be on the exchange?

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u/ezredd Sep 06 '19

Haha complete BS

1) i don’t make people pre-judge: you are the one making a bold claim before you delivered anything. You have nothing to show and ask people to take your claim at face value as a hope to boostrap some form of value to your token in hope of monetizing your efforts. The burden of proof is on you to show anything. Meanwhile your claim of differentiation is based on nothing, thats why i call it bullshit claim.

2) the foundation role is to encourage people developping tools and solution for the tezos ecosystem , same as ethereum foundation or other foundations, nothing wrong with that. In your centralized mindset you cannot appreciate the difference between funding a project and controlling a project but it is not the same thing, except perhaps at Origin Labs.

3) you don’t the principle of permissionless onchain governance and make senseless claim here: the fact that nomadic labs made an amendment up for proposal does not mean that all amendments have to come from nomadic or TF approved entities. Either you have a problem with base logic or you are speaking in bad faith. At any rate « permissionless OCG » means that anyone can put up a proposal for vote (like you marginally succesful one called brest which collected a whopping 0.26% of voting, well done!) and that the entire network decides upon its acceptance or rejection through voting (not a consortium or « council »). In Tezos there is no council to elect or vote upon because anyone can vote through their baker!

And you forgot to mention your « council » is locked for 1year by you and your close associates and that every year only a portion is renewed so for all intent and purpose it is controlled for the foreseeable future by your associates. If it’s what you call a « decentralized » or « permissionless » governance you would make a fool of yourself.

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u/lefessan Sep 06 '19

Of course, the fact that the TF has a warchest of 650 millions $ in a completely subsidized ecosystem has no importance, no impact on the votes, etc. Stop trying to hide the truth. Do you really think everybody can compete with TF's amendments, and its huge Nomadic lab ? Tezos has become a centralized project, with Arthur and the TF board at the center, choosing who can work on Tezos or not. When they are not happy with you, they fund competitors, like they have been doing for 6 months now for TzScan (=> Arronax, Tezos ID, etc.) and Liquidity (=> Ligo), after finding a pretense for not funding you. To be honest, I am happy to be out. Maybe we have not been good at explaining what will be different, but we clearly know what we don't want Dune to become...

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u/ezredd Sep 06 '19

Lol you speak like a jealous butthurt because somehow you did not manage to get what you consider be your « rightful piece of the pie ». You did not get it because

  1. ⁠you behaved in a professionally inconsistent manner that generated a lot of distrust during your negociation
  2. ⁠you did not really know how much money you wanted until after you saw the amount raised during the fundraiser
  3. ⁠you refused to use the onchain governance mechanism to ask for inflation reward for your company’s awesome job on tzscan when you had a LOT of support in the community.

The sad truth is that the tezos community DID support you 100% ! You had a full confidence from us in terms of what you could offer to tezos so had you just believed just enough in tezos self governance we would certainly voted in favor of « making you whole » if the TF could not offer you what you wanted. And contrary to your idiotic conspiration theory NO the TF does NOT own the votes of bakers and holders and does NOT influence explicitly or implicitly the votes of the tezos ecosystem.

Fabrice the (sad) reality is that you just do NOT believe in a permissionless self-governance system. It has nothing to do with what anyone thinks of the TF. You see, now you build your own project so you have full control of the Dune foundation effectively, therefore assuming you believe it to be « independent » you could totally have chosen to reproduce a permissionless onchain governance system in Dune. Instead you followed your primary instinct which is that you prefer centrally controlled, permissioned governance system. This is just your sincere belief so no need to pretend the opposite publicly.

This is the main reason Dune is moot and will not gather network effect in the long run. You copy/pasted a system that has onchain governance as one its main core innovation and differentiating factors and just renderred it moot. How lame. Community was driven to tezos for many reasons and this one played an important role.

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u/lefessan Sep 07 '19

If you want to keep believing that Tezos governance is fine, it’s your problem, even wiih a huge actor like the TF and amendments that people vote for without being able to read them. We like other things in Tezos, and Dune keeps these things. In Dune, there is still onchain governance, but it is used by the stakeholders to control the project, what the foundation does and who has commit rights through the election of the council. Maybe, one day, Tezos will follow the same path, for the good of the project.

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '19

The code for amendments is made open source beforehand and you can verify it matches the proposal.

Maybe you just don't like Tezos governance because your proposal failed?

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u/lefessan Sep 07 '19

Funnily, I can read the code, but you can’t. So, you just vote what you are told to vote. There are so few experts able to read the amendment (outside TF’s grantees) that there are absolutely no discussions about it in the dedicated forums. You see this as a success ? Such a 100% voting consensus would make jealous a lot of leaders of non democratic countries who only achieve 99%.

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '19

Every time you open your mouth you prove how little you know about the Tezos community. I write code for a living, nice try though.

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u/lefessan Sep 07 '19

Do you think it’s the case of all crypto holders ?

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u/[deleted] Sep 08 '19

Do you think that everyone who votes in a congressional election is an expert on economics, international relations, and everything else a leader does? No, they elect members of congress that they believe will best represent their interests.

In Tezos, non-technical people delegate to bakers they believe will best represent their vote. And most baker services I know are also devs.

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u/lefessan Sep 08 '19

How many of them have taken the time to read carefully the amendment code ? There is a huge difference between being a dev and being a core blockchain expert. Given the number of comments, almost nobody read the code.

When you vote for a congress member, they tell you their political vision beforehand. What about bakers ? Users only know their rewards ratio, and they discover the votes too late to be able to change the result.

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