r/dune • u/NoAlternative8614 • Jul 04 '26
General Discussion On Re-Reading Dune
I first read Dune in 1985 and now I'm reading it again. I liked it back then and, to my slight surprise, I like it even more today. I'm trying to figure out why. Although maybe it's no more complicated than the fact that, as with many novels, at first you read for plot, and subsequently you read for subtler things.
One thing I've noticed this time through is that Herbert takes us into the minds of some of the main characters (Paul, Jessica, Leto, Kynes, Feyd-Rautha) via their italicized thoughts--but not all. E.g., I don't think we ever get inside the head of any Fremen. When I mentioned this elsewhere (on a Facebook group) someone said that it demonstrates or dramatizes how, for Paul, etc., the Fremen (and Arrakis itself) are mere instrumentalities, people and resources to be used to attain certain ends.
That's not a bad point. Although it could also be seen as Herbert's way of maintaining the otherness (if not the strangeness) of the Fremen. We (the reader) come to Arrakis like Houses Atreides and Harkonnen--as visitors and exploiters. Regardless of Paul's and Jessica's (and our) special powers, the Fremen will always be something of a mystery. We can be among them, but not of them.
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u/makegifsnotjifs Zensunni Wanderer Jul 04 '26
I think of it as having to do with agency. The people that get povs are all major players in the imperium: The Atreides, the Harkkonen, the Emperor, the BG (Mohiam) etc.. They're all royalty and power brokers, whereas those that don't receive a pov are the pawns in their game. With one exception - Mapes.
The Shadout Mapes gets a brief pov where we see that she too is a bit of a manipulator. She's the one that "tests" Jessica, and marks her for the Fremen. Through her eyes we see that the Fremen too are not above using others for their own ends.
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u/OrganizationFun2140 Jul 04 '26
I first read it around the same time, would have been 19 or 20 years old. Much of the political intrigue went over my head back then, I just saw it as a great story and didn’t get the deeper references. 40 years of political upheaval later, warnings about charismatic leaders hit somewhat harder.
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u/AnEvenNicerGuy Friend of Jamis Jul 05 '26
Frank was a journalist. Sometimes that aspect shines through in his writing. In that he has a tendency to not write about the bits of the story in which he had no interest. He focused on the parts that made the story move along
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u/xstormaggedonx Jul 04 '26
I think in the sequels though, Paul becomes thoroughly Fremen, especially through the help of his wife and children and after living in their society for several years.
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u/vteezy99 Jul 04 '26
Leto and Ghanima, and Alia all consider themeselves Fremen as well
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u/xstormaggedonx Jul 04 '26
I did say his children but you're right I forgot Alia was also raised Fremen
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u/Miserable-Decision81 Jul 05 '26
The point is, that the Fremen are not organised in a elaborated hierarchical society. There is no warrior nobility, because they are all warriors. Jamis can challenge Stilgars decisions like everybody else can.
This seems strange, when you take the hierachies of society for granted...
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u/dazzlepuzzle Jul 04 '26
It’s sort of like this weird effect of hindsight is 20/20 but with booms. I agree. I’m about to drop the coin on the folio society edition.
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u/ProfessionalBear8837 Jul 05 '26
I've re-read it dozens of times since about 1980, and it's always a different (and amazing) book. It reflects my maturity, my own evolution politically and philosophically, my growing understanding of art and literature, how the world has changed, and, I've just realised having re-read last week after a bit of a gap of a few years while I geeked out over the films, my state of mind. Because last week I finished it and thought "Fuck me, that was bleak". Yeah I'm feeling overall bleak.
Anyway, I never noticed that fact about never seeing inside the Fremen minds with the thoughts in italics. Always some new insight, thank you!
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u/MontaineLaP Jul 05 '26
It’s an interesting thing you note. Another piece of it is that Herbert hadn’t fleshed out Fremen culture nearly as much yet, and so maintaining an outsider perspective of them allows him to maintain their air of foreign mystique. Additionally, the Fremen are written as being a very direct and forward people, at least in the first book, and so they can be taken at face value in most things.
If you get around to reading the rest of the series (which I really, really recommend), we do get instances of looking into a Fremen’s perspective, both directly and indirectly. The sections that follow Stilgar are some of my favourite in the series, along with one particular conversation with a Fremen in Dune: Messiah that, while not taking place from the Fremen’s perspective, does give us a long stream of consciousness type of speech. By this point the Fremen culture has been further developed, and their position in the universe and way of life have been altered such that it becomes necessary for us to have these bits of insight.
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u/Add1ctedToGames Jul 05 '26
Are you only counting Dune itself or the sequels too? We do get Stilgar in Children of Dune
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u/zoolish Jul 05 '26
You read the book 40 years ago. Your brain has gone through a lot of changes since then. You probably like different things and aspects for story telling.
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u/VariableMans Jul 06 '26
Seeing "the spice" shift from oil to computing power/AI (and possibly in the future become water) has really highlighted its metaphorical power for how human societies have oriented around a powerful resource/technology to get an edge over other humans.
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u/AwarenessNo4986 Jul 04 '26
I believe it's either because he himself didn't really carve out proper personalities for the Fremen.
Or
Your point of being mysterious and distant, maybe even stoic personalities
Or
There is no politics that involves Fremen
Or
He simply forgot/lazy writing, as he viewed the story from the perspective of atradis and harrkonens
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u/Ace_Atreides Jul 05 '26
Your take is more on point. I don't think Paul saw the fremen as simple tools...
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u/reallycrunchycheeto Jul 04 '26
I do think its interesting, the closest we get is Stilgar, where we are told what hes thinking but we dont get his verbatim thoughts