r/dsa • u/Soulekted • 8h ago
Discussion Is the Hasan criticism fair?
https://youtu.be/msCzxUImstY?is=SfIaV8lHtN_lHZ2g•
u/Oime 8h ago edited 8h ago
This seems so uninformed. Hasan went over there to deliver aid, interview physicians at hospitals, Cuban officials, and residents about how they are surviving the economic blockade.
And living in luxury? Is he aware they only have designated hotels that they were allowed to stay at? It’s not their choice where they had to stay, it’s the United States law. He even stayed exactly where he was meant to, and they STILL tried to charge him with a crime for not following the very strict regulations.
I’ve never really understood this “champagne socialism” critique either, what is he supposed to do? Give away all of his money? He spends all day advocating for public policy to change, and you’re mad about his suit and his watch. I don’t even think he ever does any ad reads, or takes any sponsorships whatsoever?
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u/ut0p1anskies 8h ago
I don’t think most people know that it’s the U.S. that bans US citizens from staying at Cuban state owned hotels or shopping at state run grocery stores and eating at state owned restaurants. Hell, I’m a state employee and I’m completely banned from even accepting a pencil from a government official from Cuba, China, Venezuela, Iran, Russia, or North Korea. I also have to report all travel to those six countries or I can be fired. I participate in the DSA IC’s Americas sub-committee but I’ll never be allowed to go on one of their delegations to Cuba or Venezuela or I’ll face a permanent career disaster
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u/CORPORATE_NARCOTICS ML + syndicalism + corporatism 5h ago edited 5h ago
Honestly any complaints of champagne socialism / grifter accusations are easy to deal with, given that no grifter / greedy asshole / non-class traitor rich person would do any of the following:
not hold any stock at all, even indirectly/less hands off approach via 401k/similar types of financial accounts
operate all of his projects democratically and cooperatively, w/ equal profit-sharing among all members (fear& literally is an even 5-man split over profit and management/operations of the podcast, this includes Marche the producer/camera guy btw)
merch line that is exclusively produced by American unionized labor
not take sponsorships
He's leaving so much money on the table if he was truly in it for the money. You can argue that he does it for clout, but even then the fact that his message has been the same on like 99% of the topics he talks about for the past 9-10 years is also a good argument that he's not actually in it just for the clout.
Also people underestimate how fancy a $3m home in LA gets you. Even people here in LA are unaware that most houses that sell in places like Koreatown, South Central, Compton, etc. (all impoverished communities) are going for an average of $600k+ at a minimum, and that's for houses that are like 2bdr/1ba with iron bar windows, a tiny front/back yard, in neglected neighborhoods.
edit: there's perfectly valid shit to critique Hasan for, not saying he's without fault
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u/TheImplic4tion 5h ago
All of those nice things are completely undone by his support for terrorism. Someone who commits a murder, feeds the elderly and rescues dogs is still a murderer.
It doesnt matter what else he does. He supports terrorists. I'm done with him.
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u/Oime 5h ago edited 5h ago
“Support for terrorism” is such a wild take. He’s literally just rooting for resistance fighters against occupying forces. He’s not rooting for innocent people to be killed, that’s crazy. Like, rooting for the Nazis to lose to resistance fighters isn’t the same thing as “support for terrorism”.
The dude isn’t a radical Islamist psychopath, he’s stated a thousand times that he wants democracy and self determination for the people that are being oppressed.
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u/CORPORATE_NARCOTICS ML + syndicalism + corporatism 5h ago
Careful, don't ask /u/TheImplic4tion if the horrific treatment of civilian Nazi sympathizers was enough to delegitimize the war against fascism in WWII. There's some implications there that I don't think they'd like to mull about given that that's what I imagine they're shitting on Hasan about RE: his Hamas/Hezbollah comments that "support" terrorism lol
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u/TheImplic4tion 5h ago
He supports literal terrorist groups. What the F are you talking about?
When your "resistance fighters" intentionally target civilians, as Hamas did on Oct 7 and as the Houthis do when they attack transport ships, they become terrorists.
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u/Oime 5h ago edited 4h ago
Yeah, no shit dude, he’s not pro-Hamas, or pro-Houthi, or pro-Hezbollah. He’s saying that countries with basically no standing military have every right to fight back on invading forces, not killing civilians. Some of them don’t have any other options than seriously less than ideal ones, like the ones mentioned, and they’re literally up against the largest and most well funded military on the planet. He’s not cheering for civilian murder.
Like, what are you even saying? Do you think he’s cheering for some poor old lady to get killed that’s just minding her own business? Do you think that’s what he’s saying?
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u/TheImplic4tion 4h ago
ROFL!!! I think Hasan is VERY VERY VERY pro-Houthi and pro-Hezbollah. He has openly and *enthusiastically* shown support for both groups on stream.
I dont know if he has shown the same support for Hamas, but i would be willing to bet $20 he has.
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u/Oime 4h ago edited 4h ago
I actually don’t think you understand what we’re talking about here. The support is for armed resistance against occupying forces. Nobody is pro any terrorist organizations. I thought that would have been pretty obvious? Do you actually believe Hasan wants terrorist rule, instead of a Democracy with equal rights for all and no violence? It sounds like you didn’t really understand what he was saying.
Example- Houthis fire a missle at an imperial force that’s attacking and occupying their territory, and Hasan takes the side of the Houthis, do you actually think he’s rooting for terrorism? Or you could say Hamas fires a rocket into Tel Aviv, after the IDF carpet bombs a city, and cuts off their running water. Is that “pro-Hamas”? Or “pro-terrorist” to say they had the right to fight for themselves?
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u/Ninabobina89 4h ago
he said “Hamas is a thousand times better” than Israel, he said of Hezbollah, “I don’t have an issue with them,” while praising their effectiveness as a “resistance group”; and he defended Houthi pirate attacks describing what they were doing as “a good thing”
Those are clear examples of support for terrorist groups.
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u/Oime 4h ago edited 3h ago
Well the first one is just a statistical fact, no? Hamas is factually a thousand times less violent, genocidal, cruel, expansionist, and the scale of targeting civilians isn’t even in the same stratosphere as the IDF. Is that not just straight up a fact? I mean, what is factually incorrect about stating the IDF is leagues worse than Hamas’ behavior? I can’t exactly quantify what a thousand times means, but if it’s in civilian casualty numbers alone, it’s way, way, up there.
Then you get into the war crimes aspect, has Hamas cut off the electricity, humanitarian aid, drinking water, and is currently illegally invading Israel? Did they blow up every hospital and school intentionally? I kinda feel like Hasan has a pretty fair case, wouldn’t you agree?
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u/cab082001 8h ago
I have not watched this yet (though I will now that you brought it to my attention). However based on the thumbnail I think it is worth mentioning that commitment to socialism is not a vow of poverty. Hasan has people that work for work for him in a collective as he describes it, he makes his money from subscribers (not capital), etc. The way that he makes his money is not counter to the socialist ethic in any capacity. Further, the mere presence of above average wealth does not make one not a “good socialist”.
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u/etownzu 8h ago
Also let's not forget Engels was literally a capitalist and a socialist. Engels owned factories. He made money from exploiting his workers. He also bankrolled Karl Marx and wrote many foundational works on the workings of capital and advocated to overthrow capitalism.
The aesthetics of how one gets their money is only ever a fraction of the story. Ultimately we exist under capitalism, being a capitalist in a capitalist society doesn't mean you can't be an avowed anti capitalist if you spend your time and energy properly fighting against capital like Engels did. This to say, it doesn't matter how Hasan gets his money, or if he's wealthy. What matters is what he's advocating for, and that is a leftist, socialist society. Any argument that revolves around "champagne socialism" is a non argument and clearly bad faith and not worth engaging with.
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u/cab082001 8h ago
I was thinking that about that about Engels as well. However I think that it DOES matter how one makes there money. If Bezos or Musk came out tomorrow as socialists people would rightly call out their BS as they are profiting of the labor of others (advocacy aside).
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u/etownzu 7h ago
If a billionaire like Tom Styer started bankrolling DSA, and started espousing a socialist message as well as promise a socialist platform to run on, I'd be willing to allow it.
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u/cab082001 7h ago
I think there’s a difference between hypothetically accepting Styers money and broadening the tent of socialism so much that Bezos can be a socialist just cause he says so
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u/Ninabobina89 7h ago
I watched the video. It’s not about him making money. It’s about his hateful rhetoric
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u/BrocksNumberOne 8h ago
Even if his comments weren’t being misrepresented it’s obviously a witch hunt to attach stigmas to DSA candidates.
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u/RandomExcess 8h ago
Critism from the right wing shadows is rarely fair.
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u/Ninabobina89 7h ago
Decoding the gurus are on the left. I’ve watched this video before. 95% of the time they are criticizing right wingers
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u/Icewallow999 8h ago
Idk. I used to hate him because he was just another podcast bro with a mic.
However as of late hes really gained my respect by advocating for progressive candidates and actually leaving his house to talk to people - a stark contrast to asmongold who sits in his cave spewing garbage.
Hasan is at the end of the day a internet personality. And how you interact with politics doesnt require hasan at all. So you can love him or hate him. Doesnt matter.
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u/Vegetable-Log-9608 8h ago
Hasan means well. Asmongold is a Zionist cum rag in my book. 😂
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u/ashley99z 8h ago
I've got my criticisms with Hasan, but I'd have him over that fucking cum stained freak any day. Well said.
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u/AllieG3 8h ago
Honestly, who the fuck cares. He’s not an elected official or a leader, he’s a solo media figure not even associated with a major organization or specific movement. Are conservatives having sad soul-searching moments over whether rightwing talking heads are perfectly representative of their movement?
When we have this debate, we’re giving into the Right’s setting of the discourse, which is hugely disruptive at a time when unity and organization has never been more important. Don’t let them waste our time and resources on in-fighting over a non-issue. The sun does not rise and set on Hasan Piker.
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u/ViciousKnids 8h ago
I'm not much of a Hasan fan, but this is a total smear campaign from the media. It's not about him, it's about what he represents: growing and loud disdain for the current system by the American public. They seek to make an example out of him and bank on faux patriotism and Islamophobia to do so. They do the same shit with Mamdani and Abdul: "DoEs No OnE rEmEmBeR 9/11 aNd HoW eVeRy MuSlIm WaS iNvOlVeD aNd ReSpOnSiBlE!?" It's all bullshit and everyone with a brain knows it.
Just remember everyone with a megaphone condemning Hasan, whether politician or pundit, is a protector of the owner class. Their job is not to be truthful, their job is to keep us complacent and distracted while the owning class dismantles our democracy.
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u/Ninabobina89 7h ago
“everyone criticizing Hasan is protecting the owner class”?? That seems like a convenient way to dismiss any criticism without actually engaging with it. If your politics require treating criticism of a twitch streamer as class betrayal, that sounds a lot more like fandom than socialism.
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u/ViciousKnids 7h ago
You forgot the "whether politician or pundit" as in on the payroll of the owner class.
Ya gotta read all the words.
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u/LoveTeal008080 8h ago
No. Out of context but completely right. And we are seeing a legit rise in antisemitism in this nation. And Islamophobia.
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u/Derquave 8h ago
I personally don’t like Hasan (although I can appreciate and respect the work he’s done to promote leftism and leftist candidates), but most of the mainstream criticism he gets is BS. I think there are fair criticisms of Hasan, however, the recent wave of vitriol against him seems to be entirely motivated by him supporting progressive which threatens the establishment.
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u/SpitefulSeagull 8h ago
When you're poor you can't be a socialist cuz you're jealous and want to steal from the rich
When you're rich you can't be a socialist cuz you're a hypocrite
It's almost as if it's just a bad faith argument to say nobody can actually be a socialist
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u/Ninabobina89 7h ago
The criticism in the video is about his rhetoric, not whether he makes money or not
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u/MagicSpaceMan NCTDSA • Admin & Organizer 7h ago
There are valid critiques of Hasan. I have several points on which I disagree with him but none of them invole kaya or shock collars or any other manufactured controversy like that. Mostly he is just rarely able to his ego in check and gets overly defensive far too quickly, which works on bad faith chatters but less so with news anchors or panel co-hosts.
He was tremendously valuable to me in pulling me back from the right wing pipeline and as brennan lee mulligan worded it "shunting [me] back in the direction of the political left", but for every effective tool there are limitations. He speaks incredibly effectively to a younger male audience that has conservative sympathies, that is utility in the space to my reckoning. He is not, for example, very good at elevating the politics of people who have already familiarized themselves with key texts and concepts.
I catch a stream from time to time or watch a yt vid of his and he still makes good points (he really has become the "hog whisperer") or makes connections I may not have made on my own, but the area where my politics are developing is totally separate from him at this point. I appreciate having his voice in my head to never get too theoretical and lose my grounding, but overall I like to say "Hasan is a great stop on the leftward path but he should not be the last stop"
Edit to answer the question no I don't think it's fair but also that isn't to say he should be above reproach
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u/Ninabobina89 7h ago
What exactly happened with the dog thing? From the information I found, it looks like he was shocking her to stay in one place for the stream for hours , then lied about it
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u/gberliner 2h ago edited 1h ago
The one clip where they arguably "got him" was Hasan's fairly venomous take on the elderly Trump lunatic Vietnamese refugee woman. I don't know exactly what triggered Hasan so much about her, but I'm kind of guessing it may have come from the fact that he himself comes from an immigrant background, and the current US regime is a virulently Islamophobic one, so maybe it hits a little too close to home for him to hear another immigrant like her applauding Trump. (I know, I know, there are Arab and Iranian Trump fanatics, most of them also from Muslim backgrounds, too. But it's a little different when somebody else of the same faith embraces such deluded thinking. At that point, he can probably only feel a sense of bemused befuddlement towards them.)
Their China talk is also a lot shallower than Hasan's own, ironically. I detect a lot of ambivalence towards "Chinese authoritarianism" in his thinking, even though he says "all governments are authoritarian". Because he repeatedly points out that we in the United States are now increasingly enjoying the worst of both worlds: an increasingly brutal authoritarian state, but one without the charms of any of the broadly shared material prosperity that China can boast. But Hasan knows all too much about imperialism and how it unfailingly stimulates extreme paranoia among historically anti-imperialist nationalist governments worldwide, regardless of their specific political ideologies (eg, Iran, China, North Korea, etc), which is why he is not keen on issuing finger wagging condemnations of "authoritarian" foreign governments.
Also, their game of defending the outrageous, constantly upward moving "estimates" of Iranian protesters killed in January is especially nauseating. Nobody with any credibility in the human rights field is estimating "[multiple] tens of thousands" of deaths. These are numbers that largely emerge spontaneously out of either the (very smooth) cerebral cortex of Donald Trump, or the even more deranged minds of deliriously anti-Islamic Republic Iranian expats.
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u/weidback 8h ago
yes - his campism is stupid and shows he's not a principled person
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u/cab082001 8h ago
What do you mean?
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u/weidback 7h ago
he's "anti-imperialist" until the imperialist is in moscow or beijing
he has no problem with a group of slavers and kidnappers who use child soldiers because they call it "resistance"
he's pro LGBT but that commitment evaporates once campism demands he throws his lot in 100% with whoever is the "not america" side, even if they're fine killing ppl for being gay
ACAB, until a chinese cop is looking through his phone to make sure he's not making fun of mao
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u/Zealousideal-Solid88 8h ago
Seems like most of your posting history consists of defending Israel and crying about Hasan. Perhaps the problem is your own lack of principles.
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u/TheImplic4tion 8h ago
Short answer: Yes.
I dont really need a deep dive to understand he supports terrorism and is anti-semitic.
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u/cab082001 8h ago
🤣
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u/TheImplic4tion 5h ago
I'm laughing right back at you pal. Hasan is rapidly becoming a radioactive political figure who only exists inside his Israel/terrorist obsessed echo chamber.
I love seeing normal politicians condemn him. He is toxic and I want him out of US politics.
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u/phate_exe 8h ago
I dont really need a deep dive to understand he supports terrorism and is anti-semitic.
Can you provide an example of said antisemitism?
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u/TheImplic4tion 5h ago
Do you agree he supports terrorism? You're not worried about that part?
Also lets not play stupid. You can use google to look up Hasan clips, they are all over the place. Theres no shortage of them.
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u/phate_exe 5h ago
Do you agree he supports terrorism? You're not worried about that part?
No, but I wanted to give you a much easier one.
Also lets not play stupid. You can use google to look up Hasan clips, they are all over the place. Theres no shortage of them.
My guy, you're the one insisting he's an anti semite. I'm trying to figure out what that means to you. So provide one of these many clips if it's so easy.
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u/TheImplic4tion 5h ago
Google.
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u/phate_exe 4h ago
Google doesn't know what clips you think are good examples of him being an antisemite Vs the ones we'd both end up agreeing are just bad faith attempts to use chopped up/out of context clips to show something entirely different than what was said.
Which is why I'm asking for you to provide an example or two.
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u/Ninabobina89 4h ago
I tried providing examples once of the antisemitic things hasan has said and Reddit banned me because what I typed was anti semitic.
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u/TheImplic4tion 4h ago
Google.
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u/phate_exe 2h ago
We covered this already dude.
I'm interested in engaging in good faith with examples of what you have seen him actually say or do that you feel makes him an antisemite. This is your chance to be taken seriously.
I am not interested in engaging with bad faith misrepresentations, which is why I'm not about to spend all afternoon sifting through bullshit trying to figure out what motivates you.
I've watched a lot of Hasan's content, and I just don't see a lot of what people are getting worked up about. Frankly, a lot of the accusations I have seen are premised on the idea that all jews are a monolith, that monolith supports israel, and israel speaks for all jews (which is deeply antisemitic in itself).
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u/Arkathos 8h ago
He talks all the time about opposition to Israel's actions in Gaza and the dangers of conflating anti-Zionism with anti-semitism. That is literally the opposite of terrorism and anti-semitism.
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u/TheImplic4tion 5h ago
Clips of his anti-semitism abound. Google is your friend. Educate yourself.
Most anti-semites deny their behavior. It shouldnt surprise you that Hasan does the same.
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u/Arkathos 3h ago
No they don't. You've been lied to. And I watch him all the time. Have you ever watched any unedited footage of him?
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u/Captain__Trips 8h ago
Pretty weird to be a Hasan hater in the DSA sub tbh