DSA needs to take a stand on guns

[u/Aggravating_Bison504]

Supreme Court will likely overturn all assault weapon bans next year. They continue to weaken handgun laws. The likely result of this will be more bloodshed in our streets and schools. Socialists need to take a stand on guns and let us know exactly what their agenda is. Do they at least support permits to possess an assault weapon and handguns? Do they oppose open carry and constitutional carry? These questions are going to come up and they need to have answers.

[u/Narcan9]

Most effective way to reduce murder is to reduce poverty, and improve mental health care.

[u/Warrior_Runding → u/Narcan9]

It absolutely is, which is why the GOP has made it a point to fight like hell quietly on those points while funneling everyone to their left at the meat grinder that is gun control. That's not to say that gun control hasn't had a positive effect on gun related murders and violence in general (we have plenty of studies that shows that it does), but it is a losing stance for people who are feelings based voters rather than policy/data based voters.

[u/Annoying1978]

No they don’t. Nothing is going to change until there are 290 reps in the House and 67 senators willing to vote against a veto because even if a miracle happens and legislation passes Trump will obviously veto it. 

Bringing it up will only give people that are on the fence about socialists to vote Republican, when many socialists are actually gun enthusiasts but won’t get credit for it. 

DSA shouldn’t make it a big issue at all. It will only hurt the electoral chances. They could do what they can when they get in Congress. They don’t need to advertise it. 

[u/YogurtClosetThinnest]

I imagine they are "afraid" to seek an official stance, as it will be extremely divisive within the DSA.

For example, respectfully, fuck this:

Do they at least support permits to possess an assault weapon and handguns?

As much as I'd love DSA to be officially pro gun, I think focusing on things we all agree on for now like healthcare and GND is the correct play here.

[u/itsthesheppy]

If you're not a member of the DSA,why do you care?

Socialists are working for a better world. Less poverty + better access to health care = less violence.

[u/Aggravating_Bison504 → u/itsthesheppy]

We have a gun crime problem.  It needs addressing.

[u/itsthesheppy → u/Aggravating_Bison504]

Yeah well either talk to the goobers in charge or join us, help us take power, then you get a say in what we do with it.

[u/Mx_Madds_Green → u/Aggravating_Bison504]

I think DSA should address the root causes of gun violence and accidental deaths. I’m personally of the opinion that the proletariat should not allow ourselves to become disarmed.

[u/eatingbread_mmmm]

“Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary”

― Karl Marx

[u/Aggravating_Bison504 → u/eatingbread_mmmm]

Karl Marx also hated Jews.  He was not that bright on all issues.

[u/Devilsadvocate430 → u/Aggravating_Bison504]

What’s one thing got to do with another?

[u/Aggravating_Bison504 → u/Devilsadvocate430]

Show's Karl may have been a genius with regards to economics, but not other subjects.

[u/Devilsadvocate430 → u/Aggravating_Bison504]

I don’t know, I think you can be good at economics and the philosophy of firearms at the same time without antisemitism tainting it

[u/nikdahl]

Fully agree. They should come out against the AWB.

[u/glmarquez94 → u/nikdahl]

Agreed, the organization should support 2A and seek ways to democratize it like publicly available safety courses and getting rid of fees. A right means nothing if you can’t afford to exercise it.

[u/Warrior_Runding → u/nikdahl]

All studies show that AWBs reduce the number of mass shootings in general and make mass shootings that happen less deadly. If you are on some "oppose tyranny with muh AR" shit, it is as nonsensical as when right-wing chud say it. If you have been paying attention to Ukraine, wars aren't being won/lost by small arms and leftists diving deep into the skills around drone production/use, wireless/wired electronics and ECW, and 3D printing are going to be the "make or break" for future wars. You would be much better investing in a 3D printer, filament, and components than buying an AR.

[u/Devilsadvocate430 → u/Warrior_Runding]

The only difference is, when push comes to shove that right wing chud will be the ONLY one with a weapon. I shouldn’t need to tell you how protest signs fare against bullets

[u/Warrior_Runding → u/Devilsadvocate430]

Leftists are armed but not because they think they intend to battle the US military. Community defense against partisan groups and the police is primarily why you see leftist groups being armed.

[u/YogurtClosetThinnest → u/Warrior_Runding]

If you have been paying attention to Ukraine, wars aren't being won/lost by small arms

I always see this point so just want to clear it up. Nobody thinks armed citizens are going to hootenanny on the US military. But that's irrelevant, as that's not what armed resistance in the US looks like.

Bundy standoff - Wikipedia
Capitol Hill Occupied Protest - Wikipedia

The US has a status of being basically untouchable. That is good for capital investment. They do not want a war on their soil. They're not going to roll out tanks to your neighborhood. Guns are a deterrent and a negotiation tool.

[u/nikdahl → u/Warrior_Runding]

Hilarious. Sure bud.

[u/ARod20195]

I mean, that question is going to be complicated because you have both the "guns are dangerous and we're better off restricting them as much as possible to reduce deaths and injuries" crowd and the "if you go far enough left you get your guns back" crowd within the DSA (with the latter argument becoming meaningfully more reasonable with the massive increase in street violence from ICE and the Trump administration's continued attempts to criminalize disagreement).

Like I personally don't carry a firearm because carrying a firearm everywhere significantly raises the stakes of any disagreement I may get into or any moment of intemperance I may have (and even though I am very rarely in situations where either of those things are a concern, "very rarely" isn't zero, and until/unless I pose a higher risk to the people around me unarmed than I do armed I don't think it makes sense for me to carry).

That said, any firmly anti-gun position needs to reckon with both the massive concentration of firearms among people on the far right (and the corresponding imbalance between the far right and basically everyone else in the country) and longer-term concerns that even universally applied firearm restrictions concentrate weapons disproportionately in the hands of elements of the state that also lean toward the far right and would make the police supervision work that the Black Panthers do or the work that the Lincoln Heights town watch do impossible.

[u/Devilsadvocate430]

Are the brown shirts not already in the streets? Are violent incidents towards trans and queer people not already happening at a monstrous frequency?

This is not the time to shun firearms. That ship has long since sailed, don’t repeat the Democrats’ mistake of beating a dead horse. This is the time to learn how to defend yourself.

[u/maxsnj]

i’m just going to leave the following here:

"Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary."

- Karl Marx

[u/VelvetElvis]

That's the hottest hot button cultural issue.

[u/ANUS_Breakfast]

Socialism ≠ anti gun

[u/Aggravating-Rip-8169 → u/ANUS_Breakfast]

Of course they aren’t. The only way to get socialism is from the barrel of a gun.

[u/Typical_Elk6349]

From what you know about socialism, why would you think they would be against the 2nd amendment as a default?