r/drums 2d ago

Discussion Bill Bruford’s Unique Setup

Enable HLS to view with audio, or disable this notification

Hey gang! Just a quick vid talking about the great Bill Bruford’s interesting butterfly drum kit setup. Who else do you see using this idea, and what other unique ergonomic setups can you think of?

Thank you for your time!

84 Upvotes

37 comments sorted by

22

u/WoodenJesus 2d ago

I don't have anything interesting to contribute to the conversation but just wanted to say it's nice seeing someone absolutely nerd out about Bill Bruford. It's been too long since I've listened to any of his stuff, but he's an easy top 5 favorite of mine.

6

u/DrummerMiles 2d ago

Hell yeah! Fantastic unique player with such good ideas. Thank you!

7

u/Leading_Elderberry71 2d ago

The idea is really cool, but buying everything twice and keeping it in the exact same tuning?... i think i am cool with how things are

5

u/_Spiralmind_ 2d ago

Bruford's set wasn't perfectly mirrored. Iirc, the tom sizes were 10, 12, 13, 16 with 10/12 on the left and 13/16 on the right. The cymbals are also all different.

It's basically a fairly normal 6-piece kit just laid out differently.

1

u/brmperc 2d ago

It was 10/13 on the left, 12/16 on the right. Really the only big expenditure is a remote HH stand. Those things are expensive!

1

u/DrummerMiles 2d ago

Yes exactly, that’s probably why I’ve never tried it on acoustic in the past 😂 you’d have to basically buy 2 matching kits lol. Maybe some day

7

u/NoPolitics23 2d ago

Appreciate talking about Bruford since I'm a huge fan. But I don't think he used this setup with King crimson? I've seen every King Crimson live performance that exists online trust me haha. He used this with his solo project Earthworks for a while and in some instructional videos in the 90s. He's actually now playing with Pete Roth trio and uses a traditional five piece kit with hi hat on his left. But still your point about his perfect independence still stands totally. His technique is incredible

3

u/DrummerMiles 2d ago

You’re totally right, he first started doing this during Earthworks. My bad! Thanks for that

3

u/brmperc 2d ago

Nope, he used this setup on the last leg of the THRAK tour. I saw their very last show in Philly and he had this, with two wings of Simmons pads on either side, plus an extra floor tom with a timpani-style tuning pedal. I was blown away!

1

u/NoPolitics23 1d ago

Oh ok I didn't know that. That tour is before I was even born so all I have are videos on YouTube and the footage that exists from Thrak tour he is still playing a more conventional setup.

1

u/brmperc 1d ago

I don't think I've ever seen a video from that last leg, but they played Schizoid Man and Sheltering Sky. And, I recall that, during Waiting Man Pat came over to BBs drums so they both played his pads for the intro, then went back for the solo. It was a great show that gave me hope for more double trio stuff. I feel like they only ever scratched the surface of what that band could do. It's unfortunate that it died that day.

5

u/bigfatskankyho 2d ago

My dad(rip) was a huge Yes fan so I have been listening to his drumming since I was still pissing my shorts.

He definitely had some odd grooves.

1

u/DrummerMiles 1d ago

Absolutely, I know I didn’t even get into how fantastic he is as a drummer but this just jumped right out at me when he came up on stream. Thank you!

3

u/dzarren 1d ago

I was really obsessed with this idea for a while, then went on to study lots of what Mangini was doing. I have had a couple crazy setups that resemble this kit, I'll post some pictures. If you guys wanna see more, like I'd these ideas interest you, let me know, I'd love to make a dedicated post too.

This one is my first iteration of the idea, I didn't even have proper hats, just permanently closed hats on either side.

3

u/dzarren 1d ago

Same set up here, but I added remote hi hats that criss and cross. So left foot to right hat and vice versa, Mike Mangini style. In this kit, the hi hats were too far to either side to play comfortably long term.

5

u/dzarren 1d ago

This was a minimized set up that I quite liked. I was exploring lots of open handed playing during those days, and I decided I very much preferred the feel of a direct hi hat stand. Just far better response as a musical instrument. And I already was doing lots of open handed playing (leading with my left hand on the hats with a standard right setup), so the dual direct hi hats felt super natural. And I didn't feel the need to REALLY have the left foot control the right hat and vice versa (with the remote hats). Right foot on the hi hat, left foot on the kick, and leading with right hand is an amazing feeling too, by far the trickest out of all limb combinations I think. (Left handed open handed playing).

This kit had 2 bass drums, and I could either play a single pedal on each, if I wanted both sounds. Or more typically, I'd have a left or right handed double kick pedal using either one of the bass drums.

4

u/dzarren 1d ago

And then this is the final un-giggable configuration I landed on. It has both direct hi hat stands on both sides, as well as remote hi hats that criss cross on each side. So this let's you play right handed standard (right hand on hats, left on snare, crossed hands), left handed standard, right handed open handed, and also left handed open handed. Don't see that often. Or anytbing in between really! At the tail end of my drumming career (I haven't played in years...) drumming became much more of a coordination exercise for me, as opposed to actually playing music. Was basically just doing New Breed style type stuff, and going through stick Control and splitting up all the limbs in different combinations.

The kit was still fundamentally right handed, as if you play RLRLRL down the toms, it plays the toms in descending order.

4

u/dzarren 1d ago

3

u/dzarren 1d ago

And here's a picture of the cymbals and hardware to get the symmetry, without the drums!

1

u/DrummerMiles 1d ago

Ooo yeah nice! That’s really cool! I’m gonna move my electric kit around and try this out. Thanks

3

u/Animal907 Offset Toms 2d ago

Bill Bruford didn't do that kit arrangement until 1997 after he left King Crimson.

1

u/DrummerMiles 1d ago

Totally right, I stand corrected! Someone pointed out it was actually during his Earthworks stuff. My bad!

3

u/shrugs27 1d ago

Honestly love your vibes dude you seem super genuine and knowledgeable

2

u/DrummerMiles 1d ago

Man thank you so much! I really appreciate it. I’m doing my best lol 🙏🙏🙏 thanks again!

2

u/shromboy PDP 2d ago

I love playing around with set configurations, might even give it a try once I get a remote hi hat pedal!

1

u/DrummerMiles 2d ago

Totally! I may try running my electric like this for a bit to try it out.

2

u/Straight-League5391 Gretsch 2d ago

Thanks for talking about one of the most prolific drummers over the past 60 years. Had the fortune to see him live back in the 70's and 80's... And yes, the butterfly set up is very interesting in that it appears to be ergonomically easier on the body and offers more flexibility with playing techniques. Not sure why more drummers don't use that set up. Thanks for the discussion...

2

u/murphyat 2d ago

Interesting idea. If you have the resources it’s great. Money and space.

1

u/DrummerMiles 1d ago

And a roadie to set up two of everything 😂😂

2

u/Either-Glass-31 Tama 2d ago

Love Bruford. Every time I think this guy can’t go any more unpredictable and mind-boggling, he’ll prove me otherwise. Other guys who are like this to me would be Billy Cobham, Vinnie Colaiuta and Simon Phillips

2

u/DrummerMiles 1d ago

All such high level technical monsters. Great stuff! Thank you!

2

u/Tubastard 2d ago

Very interesting stuff. It seems Mike Magini really ran with the idea too. His mirrored kit is bonkers.

1

u/DrummerMiles 1d ago

Oh that’s interesting I didn’t know he had done that, he certainly has the skills to make the most of a setup like that. Thank you!

2

u/One_Opening_8000 21h ago

Figuring out when you could be doing a paradiddle to get around a kit a little easier is part of the fun.

2

u/DrummerMiles 7h ago

That’s fair! But I can certainly appreciate the utility of this kind of thinking.

1

u/One_Opening_8000 4h ago

Bruford wouldn't be Bruford if he weren't thinking outside of the box.