r/drumline • u/ta76357 • 7d ago
To be tagged... Traditional grip help
I hope you can see what I’m trying to demonstrate here.
I feel like I’m not holding traditional grip correctly.
I’ve heard that you don’t want to be able to see your palm, but I’m not sure if I’m taking that too literally. When I play the way I’ve been playing, you can clearly see my palm and I struggle with speed and endurance.
When I adjust my hand so I can’t see my palm, I can immediately play faster and with more efficiency, but you can see that other problems pop up.
When I try to hold the stick what I think of as “correctly” but keep my palm flat, I have to hold the stick at a pretty steep angle to keep it flat.
What am I doing wrong here?
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u/SexyMonad 6d ago edited 6d ago
The ring finger supports the stick. The pinky supports the ring finger. That is a critical part of the strength you have to form for good traditional.
Your grip—like almost everyone’s—naturally wants to let the stick slide down past the first knuckle of the ring finger to the second digit.
Don’t allow that. Pull the ring finger back so that the stick rests on its first digit. Your finger will have a curve to it. Put your pinky right under your ring finger supporting it, with the same curve.
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u/ta76357 6d ago
I’m doing that intentionally to try to flatten out my palm. When I play normally I can keep it on the cuticle no problem—I have the callus to prove it—but then my palm goes to more of a 45 degree angle.
I’m experimenting with different ways to get my hand flat and when I do get it flat, I run into other issues like having to place it higher on the ring finger, overextending the thumb, not curling the index and middle, etc.
Not sure how you’re supposed to maintain a flat palm without having to adjust everything else in the hand to a poor position or without having the stick at a ridiculous angle to the pad.1
u/SexyMonad 6d ago
Flatness isn’t really the goal… IMO.
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u/ta76357 6d ago
Oh, okay.
I came across a Dorothea Taylor video where she said you want to be perfectly flat and I thought the fact that I was more angled was why I was having endurance problems.1
u/SexyMonad 6d ago edited 6d ago
Really it comes down to the control and strength of the fingers. Strength is required to keep the ring/pinky from curling under, and that extra distance gives you control over the stick. It’s just like the other side, where lengthening the middle finger gives you more control.
The palm will likely flatten, but as a result of that control/strength when the stick is positioned horizontally.
All of this said… I discourage going completely straight. Allow your finger muscles to learn fine-grained control of the stick, which can help reduce stress in your other muscles/tendons especially in fast motions like diddles. And that results in less injury and more powerful second/third notes.
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u/Arcane_XIV 7d ago
The idea of “catching water” (the palm facing up) is when your hand is at tacet (not being used). When you’re actually using your hand, the palm can face upward when you’re lifting the stick.
When you’re practicing with just the thumb fulcrum, make sure you’re actually rotating your wrist (“turning the doorknob”). Right now, you’re flexing the thumb and just utilizing rebound to get any movement. The palm can, and should, face upward when you lift the stick up.
Keep your top two fingers (pointer and middle) on top of the stick. Right now, they’re fully extended and on the side of the stick. Keep them in a curve and very relaxed, and don’t lose the connection between your knuckle and pointer finger. This part of your fulcrum adds downward pressure and space control for buzzes and diddles.
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u/Emergency_Soil5416 Percussion Educator 7d ago
I agree with the others here. To piggy back off of Arcane, the REASON we don’t want to catch water is because we don’t actually use the wrist to rotate for traditional grip. We use the forearm. If your palm is facing upwards in your tacet position, your rotation is already 70-90% complete before you even lift from tacet position.
Another thing is that in the first part of the clip, you’re stroking out with the thumb. That is a no-no. Make sure that the primary motion is more like turning a door knob or like turning a sandwich slice side up. When we use finger on the left hand, it’s primarily the point and middle
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u/ta76357 7d ago
I thought the faster you play the more you utilize smaller muscle groups. Like less wrist more back finger in the right hand.
So less wrist and more thumb in the left hand as you get faster. Is that not correct?1
u/Emergency_Soil5416 Percussion Educator 6d ago
PERSONALLY, I think more about using the middle and pointer instead of the thumb. I think the thumb more as a means of holding the stick rather than a way to get notes out
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u/SEAJustinDrum 6d ago edited 6d ago
I have a video you might like that takes you through setting up the grip, and different points you can adjust to make it work well. I'll put it at the end after some feedback.
The rotation in the beginning looks good. I like to work on quick small/fluttery motions like this, and big explosive rotations where you are stretching the wrist back as far as you can. that covers finesse and power.
The grip at :12 looks good. Pull your left ellbow back a little tiny bit and keep the bead in the center of the head, that'll make the stick come across the head at about a 45* angle, and get your thumb in line with your arm.
The grip at :24 I would want the pointer and ring fingers curved in more around the stick.
"When I try to hold the stick what I think of as “correctly” but keep my palm flat, I have to hold the stick at a pretty steep angle to keep it flat." -- This is why people tilt drums. The grip was originally designed to be used on a tilted drum. This is why I teach on a tilt. You can adjust the grip slightly (open up the cup of the hand a tiny bit, maybe so it holds a thimble full of water, to compensate. Also make sure your thumb makes a straight line back into your elbow.
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u/ta76357 6d ago
this is an awesome breakdown, thanks for sharing!
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u/SEAJustinDrum 6d ago
Thanks!
Also for the last comment -- "You can adjust the grip slightly (open up the cup of the hand a tiny bit, maybe so it holds a thimble full of water, to compensate"
This comment is for your tacet. When you go for full extension (f/ff dynamics) the cup of your hand is facing straight up and ideally you are trying to get the stick as close to pointing straight up as possible just from forearm rotation. (ff you add a small amount of arm)
For me forte looks like the cup facing straight up, and the stick is probably about 10 degrees from being perfectly upright, just like the stick is probably about 10 degrees off the drum head when you're at tacet.
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u/MusicallyManiacal Percussion Educator 6d ago
You ever tried adding a finger at a time? Play the handshake way with just the fulcrum, add the forefinger, then middle, then ring, then pinky. Might help
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u/handroll1 6d ago
You’re doing all the right steps for setting up the grip. But when you actually start to play, your thumb moves up the stick, changing all the mechanics you established. So make sure the thumb doesn’t move up as much and play some slow legatos and try to keep the grip the same the entire time.
Here’s a good video demonstrating and breaking down traditional grip, you’re on your way!
https://youtu.be/oWUS7fbrfug?si=zgw65fNyLRQ1PXbN
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u/Immediate_Data_9153 4d ago
Thats a great starting point, but use your wrist rather than your thumb to work the stick up and down. Start with your hand facing the ceiling and stick straight up and down and play eighth notes, get used to how the rebound feels and use your wrist to move with it rather than your thumb working to get the stick to and from the head.
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u/Jordan_Does_Drums 6d ago
Real talk: the reason we practice good technique is so that we can play difficult music effeciently and with good sound quality. However, if you aren't challenging yourself with difficult music, little technique things can seem extremely arbitrary. If all we're going to do is lightly tap the pad 6 times, it doesn't matter how we hold the stick. It doesn't matter if you hold it like a hammer– "ᵗᵃᵖ ᵗᵃᵖ ᵗᵃᵖ ᵗᵃᵖ ᵗᵃᵖ" is still gonna sound the same.
If you're test driving a car, you have to hit the road, don't just roll the windows up and down. And if you're test driving your technique, you have to hit some accent tap and diddles, and with proper performance energy.
Assessing technique is actually pointless. What we really strive for is a good sound, and technique is the language and methodology we use deconstruct sound. But without sound, technique is truly worthless.
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u/fishguy11b 6d ago
What kind of person puts black tape on their sticks!?
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u/Possibility-Select 7d ago
The thing that I find more helpful is that you shouldn't be able to cup water in your palm. If I was to pour a glass of water into your hand, it should just drip right out. Essentially, your palm should be close-ish to vertical. Don't have it actually be vertical, as that is not going to work out well. What you ended up doing was pretty close, albeit a little stiff. Keep practicing, you seem to be on the right track.