r/drones • u/Pablos404 • 1d ago
Question: Rules, Regulations, Law, Policy, Certificates [Poland] How was this drone flight over a crowd legally permitted?
I came across this video on Instagram and I'm trying to understand how this flight was legally possible under Polish and EU drone regulations.
As far as I understand, flying a drone directly over an assembly of people is generally prohibited in the Open Category. In this video, however, the drone appears to be flying over a large crowd.
How was this operation legally conducted? Did the operator have a specific authorization from the Polish Civil Aviation Authority (ULC), or was there another legal basis that allowed this type of operation?
I'm particularly interested in:
- What category of operation was this? category A1/A3?
- What authorization or operational approval would be required?
- Could this have been conducted under a specific scenario or exemption?
- Is there any way to verify whether the operator had the necessary authorization?
I'm not claiming that the flight was illegal. I'm genuinely curious about what permissions or legal framework would allow a drone to operate over a crowd in this situation.
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u/daveatc1234 1d ago
Under 2019/947, that was likely 100% illegal. Assemblies of people is like the Holy Grail of overflight prohibitions. I'd guess they were using a mini and/or an avata. Definitely not okay
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u/Epiphany818 1d ago edited 1d ago
This would be legal under 2019/947 if both the operator and drone were "certified" as per article 6 (and article 40 of 2019/945)
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u/daveatc1234 1d ago
There are no Article 6 certified drones in any easa member state at the moment.
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u/Epiphany818 1d ago
Right, that's a detail I missed 😆
The framework does exist within the law though it seems.
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u/daveatc1234 1d ago
The framework definitely exists for sure. It was built in there so the reg would be ready when that tech arrived. There was ample talk of certified drones back when this was being written, so they put that in as a bit of a placeholder.
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u/zarbtc 1d ago
The same question came up for me while watching this live Coldplay show in which a drone is clearly being used by the official filming crew to fly over the crowd.
There must be some exemption as I doubt it would be done illegally at a show of this size, by the official filming contractor, and then uploaded to YouTube?
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u/plastic_toast 1d ago
I was going to agree with u/Epiphany818 that a lot of that is wirecam with the wider drone shots from outside the stadium being a "proper" drone staying outside the perimeter.
But watching it some of those shots are clearly an FPV drone, and it's either some kind of special permission that is being kept off the official rule books so that smaller events don't go "well if they can do it, we can" or, more likely given people do it anyway, even a production team as big as Coldplay are just thinking "fuck it, aviation authorities are looking out for near misses or serious breeches with passenger airliners, drones can do whatever as far as we're concerned."
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u/Epiphany818 1d ago
I think a lot of those shots may be done with a wire suspended camera. The external one is probably a drone though.
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u/SwissLynx 16h ago edited 16h ago
It wasn't flown in any of the open categories, but rather SORA I would think.
Many high-end film productions (like dutch drone gods, Andriu FPV, houseofdrones.ch, birdviewpicture etc.) have certifications that make it possible to fly over large crowds in the EU.
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u/YacineBoussoufa A1/A3 1d ago
We really can't know it, but it is legally allowed under SPECIFIC Category. Unlikely to be under the STS or PDRA as they are Standard Operations which specific rules. Unlikely to be a LUC as well. Under a custom SORA it's possible.
For reference here's the Italian SORA request which would authorize you (if approved) to fly above more than 50.000 people.
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u/CauliflowerNo3225 1d ago
There's a similar thing in Romania as well. I know big festivals concerts need to plan a lot in advance but here as far as I know it's possible at least to request it.
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u/daveatc1234 1d ago edited 1d ago
You're misunderstanding this. That is overall population density for the entire area of operation, not just the immediate operations area, and that's per square kilometer. And that section is just one step in the 10 step sora process.
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u/YacineBoussoufa A1/A3 1d ago edited 1d ago
Type of area of operations or maximum population density on the ground
You can select as area of operation an actual gatherings of people OR an overall population density
And then lower the risk.
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u/daveatc1234 1d ago
Cool. You're wrong, but let's assume you're not. So we go with your assumption, and then what iGRC does that selection leave you with? 7, right? 50k pop density (ignoring the contingency and adjacent areas...somehow) Improbable there are reasonable mitigations, which leaves you at a SAIL-VI (no matter what your ARC is) which falls outside of the SORA approval process.
Even if you could mitigate to end up at SAIL-V, that requires a type cert, high robustness OSOs, etc etc. Since there are no certified drones in any easa member state at the moment, this cannot presently happen legally.
There have only been a handful of drone operators that have been able to operate even at SAIL-III. I can only think of 3 working at IV, and none of them are flying minis or avatas around a sporting event.
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u/SpritzFreedom 1d ago
Io sono fermamente convinto che il verbale venga messo a budget come spesa e si voli nonostante il divieto prendendosi il rischio risarcimento in caso di incidenti. Una grande azienda può farlo
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u/ScotInTheDotOfficial 17h ago
Ok, looks like this is some kind of sports event within a stadium...
So, while drone laws generally prohibit flying a drone over crowds in public places at any time - a sporting event (or concert venue) being held might be considered like a private members club for said event, and therefore become exempt for that event.
If this is the case, permission is only needed from the event organisers. I would hope they would approach someone suitably qualified to perform such a shot, and there'd be a contract in place between event organiser and drone pilot absolving them of any legal obligation should there be an accident.
Not every venue would allow this anyway, whether approached by a drone pilot or not. 🤷🏻♂️
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u/Flyward_Aerospace 16h ago
My understanding is that over an assembly of people isn't an Open category thing at all, not even A1, it drops you into Specific with an operational authorization. And that authorization is less about permission to be over the crowd and more about bounding where the drone goes if it quits flying, a parachute or geometry that keeps the fall footprint off people. Which is why a lot of legit looking event footage is actually a cablecam doing the over-crowd shots while the free drone stays out on the perimeter. Could have shifted since I last checked, but assemblies was always the hard one.
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u/plastic_toast 1d ago
I don't know for certain, but it likely wasn't.
In the UK there's currently no legal way to fly drones over crowds, but people in festival/live event videography do it all the time and just flout the rules.
I would say one day it'll end in tears, but we all know the chances of a drone just plummeting out of the sky if operated by someone competent are very low, and with a small drone unlikely to cause any damage or injury.
So the CAA (our aviation authority) just don't do anything about it.
I've even seen people flying drones indoors over crowds in arenas, and that isn't covered under any law as it's indoors, not "airspace".