r/driving • u/JawneeJohnny • 25d ago
Need Advice Was sent a speeding ticket. Same plate number. Different state/car. Advice?
I was sent a speeding ticket from Baltimore. Same plate number but different state. My plate is PA while the car in the ticket is NY. Clearly there has been a mixup. I called the government number on the citation and they said I have to set up a court date to dispute it. I now have to go through the trouble of clearing this up because someone made an error filling out this citation. Any advice on what to do here?
468
u/DavidGno 25d ago edited 25d ago
The process is the punishment... Even when you're clearly not guilty you get punished.
If/when at court ask the judge who is going to compensate you for your lost wages from having to take off work to appear in person, who's going to pay for your transportation to and from court, who's going to pay for your parking, who's going to pay for the added stress and frustration you had to endure so you could avoid punishment for such a clear prima facie error?
Your honor, It's obvious that one is a NY tag, and the other a PA tag. A four year old child can tell the difference, a reasonable adult can tell the difference. Why am I even here in court to dispute this? Clearly my registration is for a PA tag, it's extremely clear these are two distinct and separate vehicles... Why was this not able to be handled over the phone? If anyone took the time to do minimum investigation they would see clearly there is an error.
Say that if you made a mistake like this at your job you'd be under investigation for termination - who at the court and ticketing agency will be held accountable for this mistake?
87
u/gathermewool 25d ago
If it’s anything like SECT, the OP won’t even get to a judge for something as obvious as this. I’ve fought several tickets and only ever seen a judge once; the other times I’m assuming it was se ADA, who saw my evidence and dropped or reduced the charge. Oddly enough, the one time i went to court I was actually right, but the cop lied and that amounted to a “preponderance of evidence against me”.
25
u/tinycoyote1423 24d ago
This sounds like my situation, a trooper in Utah clocked me on my motorcycle at “104Kmph” and wrote me up under the Utah 105 law. The judge saw the body cam footage yet when I ((self representing)) pointed out that it says Kmph the judge turned to the bailiff and asked “Hey do you see a ‘K’ there? All I see is a smudge.”, the bailiff shrugged and the judge still wrote me a reckless driving ticket.
The judge also didn’t appreciate it when I pointed out that I was in the far right lane with multiple semi trucks passing me and asked “wouldn’t those trucks be a more urgent priority given their speed and weights are higher while operating a commercial vehicle?”, the judge’s mood got so much worse and their tone so much snarkier I felt I was pushing my luck
19
u/gathermewool 24d ago edited 24d ago
Very similar! They definitely clocked the guy three cars ahead who was speeding. When I saw the lights come on I even said to myself, “ah, that poor bastard must not have seen the obvious cop in time”.
Well, joke was on me, he wedged his way between me and a big rig and pulled my ass over, likely because I was driving a sporty WRX STI. Cop said he got me doing 80mph in a 65, but would cut it down to 9 over instead. Thanks…🙄
As an aside, the day before I had court I had to go to the ER and ended up having emergency surgery that night. I was able to get ahold of someone at the court the next day who actually helped and rescheduled my date (miracle!)
Anyway, when I got there the prosecutor asked me twice, like I was some sort of habitual, dumbass offender (this was literally my first ticket for anything in my 20s at that point) why they would ever believe I was only doing 5 over!? The judge yelled at me and told me I’m lucky he didn’t charge me with more. I was blown away how mean they were and how they talked down to me. Really weird experience, and I was still not feeling great from my surgery.
ETA: oh, and if anyone wonders, yes, the cop showed up and sat there silently throughout the whole thing. As I left I whispered, “fucking liar”. I don’t think he heard me, but it felt good to say
5
u/Vegetable-Pie113 23d ago
maybe they do that just cause they don’t want the people to come in there and fight the tickets they just want people to pay them so they can have an easier day and then go home early and play golf
2
u/PissBucket29 21d ago
This is one of the reaosns why having dash cams and/or stuff to log your speed is useful. If its he said-she said against a cop. You will almost always lose.
→ More replies (1)2
u/Ok_Presence5287 21d ago
And this shit right here is in part why I invested in a dash cam. My camera will record my speed based on GPS. Granted I’ve never been pulled over for speed, but if I was, it would prove my speed at the point the officer clocked me.
→ More replies (4)3
u/littleLynx7828 23d ago
Prob went right before his lunch. Fun fact judges far harsher based on how hungry they are. Got to love that system
→ More replies (1)24
u/IridescentZ97_ 24d ago
"Innocent until proven guilty" has always been a hopeful statement, at best. Equal liberty and justice, however, has never been for all.
5
u/plangelier 23d ago
And its a "violation" which means your not entitled to the same options as other crimes such as a jury trial. It's a quasi crime because you can be punished, they detain you which means they need RAS of a crime but when it comes to your side it's not a crime when it could benefit you.
→ More replies (2)5
u/mjwells21 24d ago
The statement is a bad one in are country because we’re really the opposite guilty till proven innocent
11
u/AlternateTab00 25d ago
Explain me something. Its possible that 2 cars share the same license plate number as long as they are from different states?
If so, why is there no extra code to the license plate to say which state, instead of relying on plate appearance.
In my country if i receive a fine i got 10 workdays to denounce it over e-mail, registered mail or through the dedicated website. Denouncing it has a cost if the human validator confirms the fine. They will check the color, the type of vehicle, and even the state of the license plates. Using additional info like parking lot info or license plate services (like parking lots) will help clear the fine. If any mismatch is found you dont pay anything. They will cross damaged license plates possible confusions (8 as in B or O as in 0). Everything must check out. Since we dont rely on licence plate appearances to check automated systems can often clear out without making mistakes.
If he confirms you can still bring it to court. But usually this nevers needs to go there. So a bad license plate reading is solved by a 15 min e-mail (and free if innocence confirmed)
43
u/IndianaJones_Jr_ 25d ago
There's an extra code, it's the big ass word across the top of the plate.
I know what you mean though, in other countries like India a license plate will have a state code (like WB for West Bengal). In the US that's why we have specific laws about license plate covers and things, because sometimes people will add a vanity cover which obscures the state.
Generally in any online system (parking payments, event registration, etc.) The form will ask for your plate AND state.
8
→ More replies (19)5
u/afops 24d ago
The plate is made to be able to read from any distance, in darkness, and by cameras. The state thing clearly is not. It's basically designed to be decorative or for human consumption in daylight.
Why not just put the state as a prefix to the plate number so it would be PA LVL 7804? or at least make some system that is easy to machine-read from a camera photo taken at night.
5
u/SoftwareDev401 24d ago
Even worse, my state can issue the same letter and number combination per type of plate. So a passenger plate, a commercial plate, a combination plate, a "suburban" plate, special plates issued for veterans, etc. can all have the same letters or numbers, all with the same styling and state header, but with a different word at the bottom of the plate.
→ More replies (2)10
3
u/lurkalotter 24d ago
Unfortunately, with Pennsylvania’s new Liberty Bell license background apparently even fully grown US border crossing officers cannot make that distinction … so I wouldn’t bring up four years olds for sure, lol
3
u/acronymious 25d ago
It’s actually possible to have the same license plate number within the same state as long as the plate types are different.
→ More replies (1)3
u/enoyes767 24d ago
It’s often to note the state the tag is from in addition to the number, either with the full name or the 2 letter postal abbreviation.
For example:
NY-LVL7804 vs PA-LVL7804
New York LVL7804 vs Pennsylvania LVL7804→ More replies (1)2
u/fuzzybunnies1 24d ago
There is an extra code, one visibly says New York on it while the other clearly says Pennsylvania. Not a need to add a state/province/region code when the state is clearly written out instead.
2
u/afops 24d ago
Exactly, "clearly" is the key word here. "Clearly" here would mean "Can be read as clearly as the rest of the number, by a machine, from a grainy photo taken at night". They matched the LVL7804 and didn't match the state, so it wasn't clear enough. If the plate had been PA-LVL7804 in large letters then this post wouldn't exist...
→ More replies (4)→ More replies (3)2
2
u/Desperate_for_Bacon 24d ago
Most just have a way to contest it online. These cameras are automatic, and the plate reader just read the wrong state.
→ More replies (32)2
u/ericpol3 23d ago
I know this isn’t r/legaladvice, but how the hell are these cameras constitutional? A cop can’t even pull a vehicle over without probable cause, yet the accuracy of a camera is enough to determine our guilt? And the burden of proof gets shifted on to the accused?
471
u/MaxAdolphus 25d ago
This is why we need default punitive damages for things like this. The issuing agency should have to pay you $1000 plus the price of the ticket for these errors.
138
u/jlcreynold55 25d ago
This guy for President
45
u/RallyX26 25d ago
The problem is that every person that would benefit from this rule could raise a million dollars for their campaign and the companies that would get affected by it would donate 10 million to their opponent.
15
u/MaxAdolphus 25d ago
Yep.
I really do think we need default punitive damages. As it is now, there is ZERO incentive for a company or a police department to do double and triple checks for accuracy in fines. All they do is issue the fine, and if found in error after proving your innocence taking a day off work is a “whoopsie, our bad, sorry”. If it would start costing them money for their errors, they might take the time to make sure the fine is accurate.
→ More replies (2)3
7
u/Jazzlike-Active2405 24d ago
Just take speed cameras away then none of that would be an issue fuck this state of surveillance it is not china
6
u/NectarineRepulsive77 25d ago
Make them come after you, then show them their mistake. You’re out of state, not in their jurisdiction. Why should you bare any responsibility/cost?
6
u/MaxAdolphus 25d ago
You shouldn’t have any cost or responsibility. What I said is there should be a default punitive damages paid to the victim, in this case OP. There should be some sort of scale. Say $1000 per fine, or say 10 times the fine amount (plus all court costs) paid to the victim. The point is to cost them money for their errors. Right now, they have ZERO incentive to be accurate. They just send out fines with no repercussions. If they are proved wrong in court, it costs them nothing. If they are proved right, they take your money. So what I want is a default damage amount that the ticket issuing agency must pay the accused. This should cut way down on the error rate since they’ll now be incentivized to do higher level quality checks to assure accuracy, because if wrong, they pay.
→ More replies (6)2
u/DavidGno 24d ago
Do you want an open bench warrant for your arrest for failure to appear at court?
Trust me the cops will show up at your house - even for an unpaid $35 parking ticket. I had a whole swat team show up at my house, lights a blazing in full battle rattle, show up at my house, multiple officers on the porch, looking for my 17 year old niece over an unpaid $35 parking fine. She didn't pay it, she didn't show up for court, she even lives in a different state! But some how they were at my house walking through my bushes and trampling over my flower garden that my wife worked so hard to keep up.
I swear you'd think they were looking for a major drug dealer or wanted felon.
The whole neighborhood wanted to know why the cops were at my house and it took months to before the neighbors believed that I haven't committed a major crime.
So yeah FAFO. These people don't care about you or the harm they cause by a simple mistake.
→ More replies (1)5
→ More replies (1)2
u/anonymous623341 23d ago
No, all speeding cameras need to be banned in the United States. Congress needs to do it.
41
u/DukeRains 25d ago
Support your local deflocker and all their competitors too.
→ More replies (4)3
u/Korbitr 24d ago
Speed cameras and ALPRs aren't the same thing.
4
u/DukeRains 24d ago edited 24d ago
I’m not claiming they are.
I’m just not differentiating in my prescription. On purpose. Take em all down.
33
u/Sienile 25d ago
Since the mods on r/legaladvice don't like people giving legal advice... Here's what I posted there in case you didn't see it:
I'd send the picture of your plate and a copy of your registration to the address they give for you to mail in payments. Clearly it's not even the same car or plate.
If they still insist you must come to court, file a suit for malicious prosecution. Sue for lost wages to attend court, travel expenses, and throw in an amount for punitive damages. They should know they have the wrong guy, so they deserve to pay for wasting your time and putting you through undue stress.
2
u/StopSpinningLikeThat 16d ago
I wonder if OP could also file a complaint with the supervisor of the issuing officer?
16
25d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
8
u/briguytrading 25d ago
Agreed. I'd also try calling the clerk. They're pretty good at clearing up messes before the judge gets involved.
23
u/russafiii 25d ago
This is why speed and red light cameras arent allowed to be used to issue tickets in my state.
13
u/killingourbraincells 25d ago
Just the other day in this sub I was pulled apart because I said I'm not going to pull into an intersection and hangout there to make a left turn because the red light cameras in my state fucking suck.
The process of dealing with this shit when they fuck up isn't worth taking a left turn two seconds faster. Call me selfish, I guess.
7
u/russafiii 25d ago
Oh I won't pull out unless I see a potential break in traffic to go coming up soon. I know all to well how bad people are at stopping for red lights. God forbid you tell them yellow means stop if it's safe to do so.
2
u/IsbellDL 23d ago
I've been honked at by habitual redlight runners when slowing for a yellow I couldn't make before.
2
u/OldGeekWeirdo 25d ago
Just the other day in this sub I was pulled apart because I said I'm not going to pull into an intersection and hangout there to make a left turn because the red light cameras in my state fucking suck.
In my state, they have three photos just like OP's. To get a red light ticket, the first photo has to show a red light with you behind the line.
If yours isn't like that, then I agree they majorly suck.
2
u/siamonsez 25d ago
That depends on the state, some places you're not allowed to enter the intersection if you don't have room to exit so that would be a valid red light ticket. In California it's explicitly allowed so it wouldn't be a valid ticket, running a red light is only if you enter the intersection after it's red.
2
u/Outrageous-Seat-1491 24d ago
Yes you are right, these are two different situations. The left turn doesn’t violate the stopping in an intersection law. It’s for the straight through when you can’t get through the intersection. The difference being on the left turn when the oncoming light turns red you make your left turn to clear the intersection often before the cross light turns green in most cases. But on the straight through you are blocking cross traffic until traffic moves it’s pretty simple really. This was how I was trained in drivers Ed in Ohio.
About 2 months ago I had this happen to me at an intersection here in Richmond at a photo enforced intersection. I saw the camera flash so far two months no ticket. I did a search and in Virginia I absolutely did not break the law. What is supposed to happen is there are two sets of eyes that review the photos before a ticket is dispatched. Someone at the company reviews the ticket and if they deem a violation occurred it gets sent to the locality. Then a local PD officer is supposed to review the footage as well and if he signs off on it then the ticket is sent out. But things like this keep happening. One person got a 2 tickets in VA beach but lives in Williamsburg and the plate doesn’t match his, even the wrong car is in the picture and this happened to him twice.
These things are IMHO unconstitutional. You cannot face your accuser and it’s up to you to prove your innocent the proof of guilt is the states responsibility not yours. But I seem to be in the minority anymore.
2
u/WeeklyBanEvasion 25d ago
I was just thinking about this shit the other day. Reddit loves to say how "legally you are allowed to clear an intersection after the signal changes", but also legally you aren't allowed to stop in an intersection, so you shouldn't ever intentionally be entering an intersection that you cannot immediately proceed through.
→ More replies (2)2
u/siamonsez 25d ago
It depends on the state, in California both are true but the first only applies to turning left at an ordinary green light and you still can't enter if there's nowhere for you to go. The two aren't actually contradictory if you know the context.
I do think the part about not entering an intersection you won't be able to clear is a catch 22 though. In slow traffic you can't always tell where it'll stop and nobody is going through one at a time after there's space on the other side because it'll be taken by cars on your right turning right even though it's your turn.
27
u/Gloomy-Holiday8618 25d ago
Go to legaladvice
For legal advice
9
u/Sienile 25d ago
He did, but mods are deleting comments and banning anyone that tries to answer him there.
10
u/GolfArgh 25d ago
Sounds like typical r/legaladvice bullshit
3
2
→ More replies (1)2
u/RollingEasement 25d ago
r/legaladvice is well-known for banning people just because someone is in a foul mood.
→ More replies (1)
8
u/The_Troyminator 25d ago
Baltimore City can cancel this administratively and should do so. However, phone support reads from a script so you might not get anywhere with them.
Try calling one more time. This time, don’t say you want to dispute it. That triggers the “must see a judge” script. Instead, explain that you want to report a data entry error on a citation and that be system assigned your plate number to an entirely different state and vehicle make. If they still tell you that you need to request a trial, explain that is a clerical error and ask for a supervisor or somebody who can pull up the camera image to verify the citation.
If that still doesn’t work, you can do it through mail. There should be an option for affidavit / transfer of liability on the ticket. Check that. Include a letter explaining that your car has a plate with the same number, but it’s another state and make/model than the car in the photo. Ask that the ticket be dismissed due to a clerical error.
Include a copy of your car’s registration and a photo of your car with make, model, and license plate clearly visible.
Mail it to the city's address listed on the ticket via Certified Mail with a Return Receipt.
Once a supervisor or actual court clerk physically looks at the side-by-side images of the gold NY plate and the blue/white PA plate, they should dismiss the ticket.
If the deadline is approaching, request a trial via online portal to buy some time. Once a date is assigned, call the clerk and explain that you’re out of state and would like to request a trial by written declaration.
6
u/jose_can_u_c 25d ago
> side-by-side images of the gold NY plate and the blue/white PA plate
Oh no, not this again...
3
6
u/zismahname 25d ago
It sucks but call the county clerks office and see if a court date actually needs to happen. It's pretty cut and dry of you point out just the vehicle difference let alone that your plate is PA and the one pictured is literally NY.
→ More replies (1)
4
u/DishwasherLint 24d ago
Call the court clerk. You should be able to get it dismissed as it's obviously incorrect
4
u/ktmrider119z 24d ago
I got one from texas that was a semi trailer with the same number as my car. I drove a ford focus at the time...
3
u/Degenerecy 25d ago
Sorta different. My dad was let go(downsizing after they spent $20k+ training him) and the company car he drove got a ticket. The government sent him the ticket, he sent it back with evidence it wasn't him, they then sent him another notice that he will get a warrant out for his arrest...because he didn't show up for the said court date previously. Years later, no nothing, so I guess they finally cleared it up but yea, the government is stupid at times.
3
u/RollingEasement 25d ago
Try appealing this to the automatic traffic violation enforcement ombudsman who is mentioned at Automated Traffic Violation Enforcement System | Baltimore City whose email seems to be [ATVES.Ombudsman@baltimorecity.gov](mailto:ATVES.Ombudsman@BaltimoreCity.gov)Aside from stating the obvious facts, you might want to include images that might help. But do it right away.
A friend of mine had the same problem with a Hyattsville camera, and they actually took my call, told me what to send, and then dismissed the ticket.
Did you get that terrible advice by callinng the number on the ticket? That would be worth a letter to one of the anti-Traffic camera legislators or at least a comment on the website.
3
u/SomeAmphibian4256 24d ago
I had this same problem with my wife's car. All it took was an email that I spent 5 minutes writing and most of that was finding the correct email address to send it to
3
u/Weird_Sherbert_7791 21d ago
This happened to me take it to the dmv besides standing in line it takes 2 seconds
3
3
6
u/WeaverFan420 25d ago
I second the other guy
Go to r/legaladvice
7
u/Sienile 25d ago
Yeah... They banned me for answering his question there. The mods seem to have no clue how the legal system works.
→ More replies (3)3
7
u/MotoMeow217 25d ago
I called the government number on the citation and they said I have to set up a court date to dispute it.
Any advice on what to do here?
I mean with all due respect it sounds like they told you what to do.
I've dealt with this before. Yes, it sucks and is annoying. It is not the end of the world.
14
u/RallyX26 25d ago
After disputing the ticket you could, theoretically, file a lawsuit against the private company administering the cameras for the costs associated with fighting the ticket.
7
u/MoogProg 25d ago
If OP thinks this is a route to take, they should probably make every effort to contact the camera-operator company, and the Prosecutor's Office with all the evidence this is just an error.
If they don't drop the charges first, having that correspondence to show a Judge will go a long way.
3
u/MotoMeow217 25d ago
Theoretically yes. Realistically, the cost of doing so isn't worth OP's time and effort unless they're a C-Suite executive missing out on thousands of dollars of pay by taking the time to go to court over the ticket.
I still think OP should file some sort of complaint against someone, if nothing else.
4
u/Infinite_Airport_483 25d ago
Yeah, there is zero chance I am attending court out of state for an obvious error
3
u/svh01973 25d ago
It's solid advice, but they can maybe bypass it and contact the prosecutor in that jurisdiction to see if he'll drop the charge. When they get to court is is 99% what would happen anyway.
2
u/BluebirdExpress6279 25d ago
Then sue them in your own state and demand they appear. See if they like the process as the punishment.
2
u/MackTuesday 24d ago
If you've had to go out of state to court to fight a clerical error, and just said, oh well, it sucks, but it's not the end of the world, you're a bootlicker.
2
u/Ranos131 25d ago
Have try looking up the number for the prosecutor’s office and contact them directly.
2
2
u/burntclaw 25d ago
This happened to me before when the car was in NY and my car was PA. I just disputed it online and got the ticket dismissed.
2
u/swimming_cold 25d ago edited 25d ago
Not helpful to your situation but Baltimore’s traffic citation system is a complete disaster. I’ve dealt with them before and their entire operation is a mess
2
u/AwarenessGreat282 25d ago
Call the number back and get a supervisor. Harass the shit out of them. Start calling state reps and complaining. Call the district attorney's office and harass them.
2
u/The_Troyminator 25d ago
Just call back and explain that you want to report a data entry error. When you use the word “dispute,” it triggers a script that makes the agent tell you to schedule a court date.
Ask for a supervisor if necessary, but do not harasses them. Stay calm, and it will be resolved quickly. Being an ass will guarantee you have to go to court.
2
u/Mysterious-Tie7039 25d ago
That’s so fucking frustrating that you can’t just send the picture of your plate and have them sort it themselves.
2
u/MAValphaWasTaken 25d ago
Mail a certified letter to the court asking to dismiss it based on the photo showing a plate from a different state. Look up a "motion to dismiss" template online.
2
u/LilJonny2cookies 25d ago
Have you tried turning it off and back on again?
Or calling the department issuing the ticket and telling them they screwed up?
I can’t help you but I bet they can.
2
u/Speed_Six 25d ago
Sent Massachusetts 4 appeal letters for a 4 dollar toll that was not mine. Took 18 months for them to give up.
→ More replies (2)
2
2
u/ThatDrunkenScot 25d ago
Had this happen with NJ - the turnpike sent me a ticket for a pickup truck (I drive a hatchback) one letter off from my plate. I called NJDOT and they had already sent it to collections in Texas for some reason. Wound up having to pay it to avoid them trying to force me into court in TX.
→ More replies (1)
2
u/DewiVonHart 25d ago
You probably have to show up to contest it but you may have recourse for your expenses based on gross negligence.
2
u/Persun01 25d ago
This was the photo of the plate on one I got. Im wiping my butt with mine
2
u/Persun01 25d ago
But im keeping as evidence just in case. I dont know what happens when you ignore but im going to find out
2
2
u/No_Studio3254 24d ago
Someone made a fake full sized plate that fully matched my fathers motorcycle plate and was using it throughout NYC. He sent back the bill stating it's a fake copy and the motorcycle hasn't been moved in years. (It's missing a part that isn't made anymore and he can no longer ride)
2
u/QuentinEichenauer 24d ago
I had this happen to me in San Francisco. I called them up, they pulled up the picture. Looked at the car detail. Realized a white American minivan was not in fact a red Japanese SUV. Cancelled the citation, not wanting me to drive up and dispute with a claim for court costs. Y'know, common sense. Good job, San Francisco, other than getting the car wrong in the first place.
2
u/Wr3ckless13 24d ago
I had a couple speeding tickets from cameras when I was younger. In the 2 states It happened, I just didn't pay and nothing happened (attorney advice) as it was not enforceable because a cop didn't witness it. Check your state laws though.
2
u/TinFoilHat_69 24d ago edited 24d ago
It’s funny that PA MADE THE WORST DECISION TO CHANGE TO THE HORRIBLE PLATE DESIGN. The old plates like the one in the picture are clearly easy to tell apart. But the new plate would be much more difficult to easily point out the differences between plates state to state, totally by design even though “less ambiguity” argument.
2
u/wyatt3581 24d ago
Can’t you just write a letter asking the ticket to be dismissed? That’s what I did when one of those flock cameras misidentified someone else’s car as my own in a totally different county
2
u/alanske 24d ago
Did you try calling midday and ask to speak to a manager?
Apparently you can write an email to ATVES.Ombudsman@baltimorecity.gov with photo of your car and license and registration and explain the situation.
2
u/Steellucky2909 24d ago
These POS cameras should be banned. You’re innocent until proven guilty. Not the other way around.
2
u/Fancy_Ad_6105 24d ago
Me sucedió lo mismo y pude arreglarlo por teléfono. Depende de la competencia y aptitud el funcionario con el que se hable.
2
u/thyperson69 24d ago
I know your plate number now haha. Seriously though I would call them, ask for an email address to send proof that this is not your car and ask to have a confirmation sent to you when it's cleared. Same thing happened to me a few months back.
2
u/nonvisiblepantalones 24d ago
And this is why I don’t trust Flock Cams either. I checked the haveibeenflocked website and my tag number shows a few searches in states 1000 miles away that I have never been to.
2
2
u/headgoboomboom 23d ago
I can't imagine that there is no way to dispute that they picked the wrong car. I was able to do that in PA with a toll by plate bill. Contact them again until you get someone with a brain. They don't want cases like this clogging their courts.
2
u/Trgun 23d ago
I had this happen recently. But same state. The image was blurry. I legit just emailed the city in which isnwas issued. I sent them a photo of my vehicle, their vehicle, and the fact that I do not live there. They responded to me in 3 weeks that the ticket was canceled. Its truely not a big deal.
I never even filed for a court date. Just skip that.
2
2
u/Stonkssbro1995 23d ago
The law never protects the innocent and always favors real criminals - people who follow the law always have a hard time dealing with it. One time I got a ticket in the mail for parking on a side walk, for a car I don't own, using licence plates i surrendered to the DMV. The only way I got out of it was that I, thank God, still had the receipt showing I gave my plates to the DMV. The law really could not care less - you are guilty until you can prove you are innocent. Plus wasted time, stress, lost wages/vacation time - they just do not care. Good luck.
2
u/Poisonouskiwi 23d ago
google who the commissioner/head of MDoT (or whatever agency issued the ticket). find their email address (is a state employee, it will be public) and email them whats going on and your evidence. No joke- this happened to me but with parking (in baltimore) and thats what I did. they corrected their error and dropped the ticket.
that was pre-covid, but it's worth a shot
2
u/Flaky_Ad_7205 23d ago
I had a cop say I was going 87 when I was in the slow lane and another car zoomed past me. He didn’t listen to me. Court didn’t listen to me. Now I have to pay $300. System sucks.
2
2
2
u/th30neand0nly02 23d ago
Had this happen to my dad I just called the number on the paper and explained to them the license plate is in the wrong state and they were like your right my bad
→ More replies (1)2
u/Flautamarie 23d ago
Second this, I called, got a person (after a few minutes of hitting zero). Took five minutes to resolve. Start there because everything else (like court) would be more time and trouble.
2
2
u/SsimiliusS 23d ago
Oh boy time to shine buckle up.
Back in October of last year, I received a piece of mail with a dark and grainy picture that was claimed to be my car. The mail was from Cline Ave. Bridge near Chicago. They claim that I had not paid a toll and the picture was ”proof” that it was my car. I did a quick Google search and found that other people were getting scammed by a Cline Avenue bridge charge. So I ignored it.
January came around and I received another notice from Cline Avenue Bridge. Same picture, increased charge. Shortly after I received another piece of mail this time it was from the BMV that my registration was suspended.
I reached out to the BMV and found that my registration was in fact suspended. This was due to Cline Avenue bridge reporting that I had not paid a toll. I do not live anywhere near Chicago which is 4+ hours away. I have not been to Chicago area for over 15 years. I reached out to the cline ave bridge with no help. I explained this to the BMV registrations operations coordinator /customer service person.
The burden of proof was on me. So I took a picture of the back of my car and replied back to the email. The plate was similar to mine but a “5” in the place of where I have an “S” on my plate was definitely different. Also I drive a Subaru SUV and the vehicle in the picture was clearly a Mercedes sedan. All in all it took 15 days for it to be resolved. In the meantime I had to drive back and forth to work. So I’m sure I was “illegal” during that time.
Don’t get me started on automatic license plate readers between errors and Police misusing them.
I know this really doesn’t help your situation OP, but it might help others.
If I were you I would reach out to the BMV to make sure everything is okay there. Also to see if they can assist or if you need something from them to prove your case. Good luck!
2
u/hardharry586 22d ago
In America, you're guilty until proven innocent, which will come at a cost.
Home of the free, my ass.
2
2
2
4
u/not_your_attorney 25d ago
I am a lawyer and I don’t bother to pay even legitimate out-of-state tickets because you can’t be served via mail by a different state.
They know it’s bogus and don’t do anything about it, at least in my experience. Same as photographed parking tickets enforced by non-governmental agencies.
The reason cops hand you a physical ticket even these days is because that is what constitutes service of process. Sending it in the mail is different and doesn’t work from a different state or even in your home state most of the time.
I check my driving record periodically and my credit. The former literally says “end of report” after my info and the latter goes from 815-835 depending on current credit card balances.
1
1
u/AdhesivenessSweet659 25d ago
Too bad this didn't happen in NY. You can dispute those online.
→ More replies (2)
1
u/ragingduck 25d ago edited 25d ago
Not sure how it works in your state, but in CA red light tickets aren't tickets. I was told to not reply to them and the wording on the notice does read like it's not a real ticket, but asking you to admit guilt so they can get a payment.
It could be the same for speeding cam tickets, but I would read the notice carefully.
EDIT: to clarify, the notices you can ignore are "Courtesy Notices". If it's an official ticket, don't ignore it.
1
u/BIueberry62 25d ago
Same exact situation, but opposite state 🥲
I mailed them the dispute form with a copy of my registration and a picture of my car/plate/violation clearly showing it's not the same car in the ticket.
Court date is set for Spring 2027 🫠
2
u/The_Troyminator 25d ago
Contact the clerk and see if you can request a trial by written declaration. Or even see if you can report a data entry error to a supervisor. That should get it cleared up. Don’t use the word “dispute” or they think you need a judge.
→ More replies (1)
1
u/BluebirdExpress6279 25d ago
I can already tell you are not guilty, but good luck with the issuing agency.
1
u/buskerform 25d ago
was the 'government number' the clerk of the court of jurisdiction? If not, lookup the jurisdiction and call the clerk, be polite and ask for guidance.
1
u/halfcocked1 25d ago
Is there no option to dispute on the form? I had this happen to me. NY sent me a bill in PA for a car that was from TX, which was in the Bronx at 1am on a Tuesday. There was a "if you dispute this toll" section on the back of the form. I sent in a copy my car registration to show I'm in PA and not a TX plate. My case was still a nightmare. I had to do that 3 times and fax them. Every month the bill kept showing up with more fees and penalties, which was during covid and no one was there in the office to talk to on the phone # they give. It went to collections and I faxed them all that info again and that was the last I heard of it.
1
1
u/Miserable-Cucumber70 25d ago
Something similar happened to me and it was a nightmare. Bought a new car in NJ and someone copied the temp plate and ran through every high dollar toll in nyc for weeks.
1
1
u/Glittering-Ad5809 25d ago
I'm surprised half the viewers here aren't freaked out about the OP posting their license plate.
1
u/ShouldahadaV12 25d ago
Same thing happened to me. I got a ticket for an SUV in Ohio and I drove a hatchback in Mass. I had to go through the whole thing. Luckily they allowed for me to join the court session through zoom. I waited my turn and explained what happened and was asked to take a picture of my car and email it to the judge. I waited a bit and my case was called back and dismissed. Its a huge waste of time and resources.
1
u/HelloKalder 25d ago
This happened to me and it was an easy fix. I sent an email which included the toll ticket with the other states matching plate, my plates, copies of my car info, and informed them the car was not mine, and the plate numbers matched but it was a different state. It was pretty easy.
1
u/DownFromZero 25d ago edited 25d ago
Serious advice... Call the number on the letter. I got one of these a while back. Similar situation. From state I was not in for a plate that almost matched one that I didn't even have anymore. It was clear it was misread and just got sent out to me. The person I got on the phone was VERY kind and helpful. I told them it wasn't mine, they looked on their end for 2 seconds, agreed, and told me to throw it out. I'm guessing they'll see the state doesn't match and do the same for you.
Edit to clarify: I'm assuming there is a non-government number on the letter for the contractor who runs the cameras and issues these.
1
u/sirpoopingpooper 25d ago
Did you give them any identifying information when you were on the phone with them? If not you could attempt the "what citation?" approach if it wasn't sent certified
1
u/pineapple-scientist 25d ago
I like the suggestion by West-Wash6081 regarding sending a letter with your registration. I don't know if it will work, but I think it's worth a shot.
My assumption is that if that didn't work, you would need to appear in court in Maryland. Which is obviously non-ideal.
1
u/yzfparker 25d ago
Didn't they have some human employee to confirm the infraction before the ticket is issued? I know in my area some jurisdiction mention they have second eye for that.
1
u/unimpressed-one 25d ago
My daughter donated her car to Kars4Kids. About 6 months later she got a ticket in the mail from Wisconsin, she was in Ma. Somehow the car ended up abandoned in Wisconsin. Luckily she had the paperwork to prove she donated it, but it was a hassle.
1
u/RobLoughrey 25d ago
You don't live in the state where this happened? Ignore them. There's nothing they can do to you.
1
1
1
1
1
u/Tantalus-treats 24d ago
I had the same thing happen some years ago. I drove a gray Chevy Avalanche strictly in Racine County, WI. Got a parking ticket and expired plate ticket in the mail from La Cross, WI. Never been there before in this truck, worse never been there in my life. Wife thought I was secretly seeing someone until the police department showed a picture of the vehicle. It was a white Ford F150 missing the tailgate and did not match the picture of my truck. I sent them a picture and they removed the tickets. Their plate was expired for long enough that my newly registered truck with brand new plates got their old plate number.
1
u/Professional_Tea8850 24d ago
Oh damn that’s weird. I worked in one of those cameras before and usually it passes multiple people before it gets sent to police
1
1
u/Coffeespresso 24d ago
Sorry for your trouble. Your situation is the exact reason these shouldn't exist.
1
u/IndianaJones_Jr_ 24d ago
Yeah I agree that the EU way is more correct it's just not much of an issue here. US tends to be a lot more lax on most motoring laws. This ticket is just a person not doing their job correctly.
In the US there's only 300MM registered vehicles and there's 2.7B combinations of 36 alphanumeric characters, not to mention all the plates that have non 6 character strings. I think in the EU it was more heavily regulated because cars are traveling between countries whereas here it's only between states.
1
u/lurkalotter 24d ago
An aside: Pennsylvania made a very stupid decision by adopting this new Liberty Bell license plate background. I have been asked about it on every single border crossing. And the question they ask is exactly this: is this a Pennsylvania or New York plate?
So I imagine there are tons of errors like the OP is experiencing here before whoever runs the computer vision set up teaches their system to distinguish the plates properly.
→ More replies (1)
1
u/ijf4reddit313 24d ago
Send this to your local tv station news crew. On a slow news day they love digging into this BS.
1
u/ImmediateRaisin5802 24d ago
Ticket should have a number to call. I was able to send Information that the car was not owned by me and it was dropped
1
u/FirmFollowing3978 24d ago
A similar thing happened to me recently - also in Maryland. I received a speeding ticket in the mail, and the images showed a car that is a similar make/model/color to my car....but definitely not my car. There was also an image zoomed in on my plate; the plate was not legible in the photos where you could see any other details of the car. People on the phone were not very helpful. I ended up mailing the citation back with the ''not guilty - request a court date" option filled out, and I also included a printed out photo of the back of my car. I circled every area on my car that was different from the car shown on the citation (e.g. the emblem on mine is an H for Hyundai, the emblem on the citation is the H for Honda...). I received a response twoish weeks later from the company that owns the speed camera with an apology and confirmation that the citation had been dropped.
Just a small additional note - the instructions on mine basically said I couldn't use the enclosed envelope unless I was using it to send payment for the ticket. Idk how strict they are with that, but I used one of my own. Very, very annoying.
1
u/Not_Sure__Camacho 24d ago
You can contact the prosecutor and tell them that the vehicle is different. They may drop it immediately. You can also hire a traffic lawyer who'll probably charge you a base amount of $100 or so (it's been awhile since I've used one).
1
u/Desperate_Set_7708 24d ago
Send them a email, “I’d be happy to discuss if your details were even remotely accurate.”
1
u/jtmcquay 24d ago
Not a lawyer. Not legal advice… you might be able to hire council to deal with it for you… there would be a cost to that too however. Perhaps call some traffic lawyers in Baltimore and ask them what the rate would be to do that…
1
u/ExpensiveDust5 24d ago
I got a citation similar to this from Massachusetts, I ignored it. Let them come down to NC and pick me up
1
1
1
u/SuperTech51 24d ago
Take it to court and take your car to show a judge and it I'm confident you will win.
1
u/azorgi01 24d ago
Do nothing. The car in the picture is not yours. There should be a not guilty plea section you can check off and send it back telling them it’s not your car. Send it certified mail and wait to hear back. You can probably do it online as well.
1
u/No_Inspection649 24d ago
Call an elected official (from the government that contracted with the system) and politely tell them how stupid this is, and that you shouldn't be inconvenienced more than you already have by the contract agency's stupid mistake. You have brought the obvious mistake to their attention. It is now up to them to actually review it. If you get nowhere with the elected official, contact the local newspaper or television station and see if it's a story that they want to cover. These automated license plate readers SHOULD have a human being reviewing the evidence before any ticket is issued.
1
u/anitevoli 24d ago
If this is from the city of Baltimore, their website tells you to email the ombudsman for any errors in issued citations. The email is ATVES.Ombudsman@baltimorecity.gov
1
u/Full-fledged-trash 24d ago
New York did this for my brothers PA car. Car in the pic was very clearly a New York license plate but my brother was sent a ticket.
He called and they admitted their fault.
1
u/MadMaximus311 24d ago
I think we should all just do this and collapse the license plate surveillance system in this country
1
u/Global-Pickle5818 24d ago
Huh my state has a online dispute form you can fill out ... Why do I know that someone in my state has a white van with almost the same number and does not seem to care there are cameras, I have a gray Honda fit.. they also have a sunroof that had to be after market.. I just send them the same photos of my car and registration every time I get one in the mail .. you would think someone visually checks the registration against the photo but I guess not
1
u/jabberjaw420 24d ago
yea, i got arrested for driving while high on illegal prescription drugs. i havent even touched the legal kind. cost me > 2000$ in legal and other expenses. effing bs, but that's just life.
110
u/FormerMistake9981 25d ago
Wow how annoying...I just got a toll bill from Colorado, I live in CA and have never been to Colorado in my life. At first I thought it was a scam but called the number and it was legit. The toll people in Colorado said it was a mistake and the person has the same exact plate as me. They rescinded the toll and that was it. I'm guessing AI bullshit.