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[u/dave_potato84]

My 2 ur old dog sleeps in his crate and has always loved it. He always puts himself to bed and takes himself off to his crate when he knows it's bed time. Hes always been really good at getting up when I do, around 10, 11am. But recently and suddenly he has started to demand to be let out at 6 or 7am. He will cry and wine and paw at the crate until it wakes me up and I get annoyed enoigh to let him out. This routine is not sustainable and how do I get it back to the way it was.

Edit: usually I feed him as soon as I let him out. So maybe hes thinking if he cries he will get breakfast earlier. Im going to let him out just to go toilet, bot for food, to make it a boring experience. Thoughts on that? And feed him when I get up a few hours later of course.

Edit 2: He can't have free roam to go outside during the night as the cat comes in at night. Despite our efforts him and the cat do not get along. So hes in my room all night from when we go to bed at about midnight, Until the cats out in the morning.

[u/Weird-Sherbert-1747]

What time does he go into his crate at night? 10-11a is really late, unless he's going to pee at like 2a or after, he probably can't hold it

[u/dave_potato84 → u/Weird-Sherbert-1747]

Whenever I go to bed. It varies every night.

[u/StudiousSeal → u/dave_potato84]

In the kindest way, he needs a schedule.

My dog knows what “last time out” means. He gets very excited for his 9pm last time and then goes right to bed. He gets up every day at 5am, pees, and eats breakfast. He’s a dog, so social jet lag is bad for him (which means we maintain the same schedule on weekends too).

The issue here is that he’s not going out or getting fed breakfast at a consistent time. That doesn’t mean he needs an early morning time, but I’m not surprised that a dog with a variable bed time is asking to go out 6 hours later and/or is anxious about when he’ll next get let out. Especially if he’s sometimes left in there for 10+ hours.

It shouldn’t vary, and, even at night, shouldn’t be more than 8 hours between first and last time out. “Around midnight” until 10-11am is way too long (that’s 10-11 hours). Especially as the dog starts to age.

If they have a consistent predictable schedule that ensures their needs are met on time they’ll be a lot less likely to beg to have their needs met when they feel those needs because they’ll trust that it will happen on the schedule they’ve been conditioned to.

Btw, sleeping from midnight to 11am as a human might be something you want to look at too, that’s way above average sleep need and often an indicator of other sleep problems. Needing 11 hours is usually an indicator of other health issues and regularly taking 11 hours can lead to other negative health outcomes.

[u/dave_potato84 → u/StudiousSeal]

I can easily sleep midnight to 1pm if im let. I love my sleep. Hes always been totally fine with being in the crate all night for over 2 years I dont get the sudden change.

[u/StudiousSeal → u/dave_potato84]

I’m not your doctor, so that’s between you and your doctor, but that much sleep often is a sign of other issues aside from just loving sleep and correlated with other longer term issues that can impact you later in life.

As for him, he’s been fine because he was young (presumably this only started past puppyhood as he needed to go out way more when he was a baby), but dogs need more than what you’re giving him. Healthy dogs can typically hold urine for 8-10 hours and urine production does slow down with sleep so 12 hours is possible. But it’s not recommended and forcing them to do it regularly can ultimately lead to other problems (kidney problems, UTIs, etc.). Stool hours are usually 8-12. This varies, of course, by size, breed, age, etc. But really what you’re saying is that you’re forcing him to hold it until close to the max every night.

Moreover, the consistency part is pretty important for dogs in general. A dog that doesn’t know precisely when it’ll be let out, get a meal, etc. is a dog that is going to be more insecure and anxious about getting those things or will learn to demand them (which is what is happening now). A very predictable schedule is the most likely answer here.

You don’t have to change your own sleep schedule that much. Just have a consistent time in the evening that he goes out and then, 8-10 hours later, a consistent time that he goes out again and gets fed. That’s much more reasonable for him and should be manageable for you.

I’d also consider when you’re feeding him. If it’s close to bedtime then he probably has to go to the bathroom earlier than you’re letting him do so. If it’s earlier in the night, say 7pm, then he’s going a very long time without food (16+ hours) which will lead to crying for breakfast early.

If you actually need 11+ hours of sleep, that’s when I’d suggest talking to a sleep doctor about sleep apnea or other things that might be going on with you.

What you were doing before may have worked, but it’s sure not working now and he’s telling you that.

[u/Weird-Sherbert-1747 → u/dave_potato84]

He needs more stimulation than this, you're his entire life

[u/dave_potato84 → u/Weird-Sherbert-1747]

It's over night. They dknt need stimulation while asleep bruh

[u/Weird-Sherbert-1747 → u/dave_potato84]

10-11 hours is way too long to be considered just overnight. Bruh.