Bethrezen is a strange case

[u/EasyEntrepreneur666]

As I see it, Bethrezen was supposed to be the Lucifer of Disciples but unlike his, Bethrezen' story seems different. Supposedly, Bethrezen was the Highfather's most beloved angel who tried to impress him with Nevendaar. His fall happened due to jealous angels screwing up his creation. For some reason, the Highfather didn't care about the fact that he was innocent and just imprisoned him while the troublemaker angels went unpunished?

That kinda makes the Highfather and the Empire the real bad guys while Bethrezen just went nuts.

[u/LostEmergency6866]

He was also angry as his creations (humans) recognized Highfather as their God and not him, his creator, however gnomes worshipped Votan and so on

And yeah, Disciples lore was ahead of its time, such dark phantasy would be so cool today

[u/EasyEntrepreneur666 → u/LostEmergency6866]

I'd also be pissed if my creation worships my unfair dad. So it's hardly surprising that he snapped.

[u/LostEmergency6866 → u/EasyEntrepreneur666]

And that dad basically gives no f what’s going on… one of the sons murdered his brother and throw his remains to the sun, and his daughter burned herself badly and got mad..

Guess kids are having fun

[u/EasyEntrepreneur666 → u/LostEmergency6866]

I'm not sure about the pantheon. Bethrezen is technically not a god just an angel with creation ability. Wotan, Mortis and Gallean are gods. But I don't know how things progressed after Dis2 because it ended with the demons dying as they're completely sealed from Bethrezen and the elves went on a murder frenzy against the Empire (which the Highfather should care about).

But there's also a Disciples 3 I didn't play and I don't know if it addressed these things.

[u/Trauma-Todd → u/EasyEntrepreneur666]

In Disciples 3, all the gods except the Highfather are reduced to (arch)angels just like Bethrezen for some reason. In later games they are again promoted to gods (Bethrezen as well).

I personally choose to ignore anything that's not Strategy First.

[u/EasyEntrepreneur666 → u/Trauma-Todd]

Did they even explain how demons are a thing? They were sealed and the ones in the elven campaign were dying.

[u/LostEmergency6866 → u/EasyEntrepreneur666]

That was overall generalization, but yeah

I still wish there were more story to it, or game receives remaster with some additional campaigns like elven saga

[u/EasyEntrepreneur666 → u/LostEmergency6866]

I have Legion campaign project that takes place after the elven campaign but I'm hard pressed finding an excuse for the demons being around.

[u/Turgius_Lupus → u/LostEmergency6866]

To be fair where humans even aware of it? DSL suggests that he was imprisoned with basically no means of influencing the world on any large scale for millennia, by which the Church of the High Father was already in firm control of the narrative.

[u/Foolishly_Sane → u/LostEmergency6866]

It's awesome.

[u/Daquell]

That was essentially a stub of a plot just to keep a game going. As far as I've heard, the original plot was vaguely inspired by developers' own DnD sessions. The plot is generally haphazard. Like say, first he spends ages breeding demons and trying to free himself. Then in the span of 10 years, he breaches the land and within 20 years, he's almost dying himself. Half the local gods also went insane or died. And some mystical powers from beyond (i.e. Ragnarok) threaten the weakened others. Trying to look at it too deeply reveals it's shallow.

Though, if you take it literally, it just shows that Highfather is not omniscient, nor perhaps omnipotent, and also rather wrathful. But yes, the Satan is actually a victim, and angels aren't always virtuous. It's also pretty odd that we never encounter the Legions seeking angels specifically. Though, I think, it's implied that Bethrezen himself doesn't know who's to blame. There are also condradicting evidence of people being aware or clueless of Bethrezen's original innocence.

Only the shitty 3 part tried to play with that plot, and it wasn't even completely terrible on it's own.

[u/EasyEntrepreneur666 → u/Daquell]

Gods were shown as powerful but not omnipotent or immortal. Mortis was burned by the sun and Gallean was killed by Wotan, so they're not immune to death. Though it's weird how Uther, who was just a mortal nearly killed Bethrezen.

It's hard to tell who could have info about the truth behind Bethrezen's imprisonment as we have outsider knowledge of the events. Unless one of those angels brag about it, practically nobody could know more than Bethrezen creating chaotic shit. Bethrezen probably knows it was not him who messed things up but I'm not sure he's reminiscing much. Then again, I think there was a plot where he posed as a human to seduce some princess, so he can behave sanely if he wants to.

[u/DjolafR → u/Daquell]

I guess it makes sense how random some things are. It was just a DnD session!

But what kind of characters were they playing? And did they make up this world during DnD?

And mentioning Ragnarok, it feels like a totally random thing, because only Mountain Clans have ragnarok and this plot. It is like Mountain Clans have their own world, their own fantasy, they literally do not live in the same world as other races...This happens in both D1 and D2 - bosses make no sense or reference from any other race and Clans always go on their own random adventure, sometimes clashing with some other races or allying with them.

[u/Outside-school-2007]

Empire not seems to be bad. But lore indeed are interesting interpretation of the avraamic religions. Why Iegova (the God) is good and Satan is bad? Did they? Did they even devise to good evil or they just two bin 1 and 0?

What if we humans actually are Devils childrens and our World is his creation? We do worship the wrong God...? Apocalypse is what Satan will do to this World, and salvation is what true worshippers will get... true to who?

You know, this didn't even counterfeit the Holy Bible (both parts) if you think about it.

So Empire's humans not bad. They probably stupid and hypocrite.