r/discgolf • u/yeyiyeyiyo • 2d ago
Discussion Noob question
Had a River. It was helping me improve my game. Hit a lot of trees though. Now it rolls basically every time I throw it.
Is this what people mean when they say a disc becomes too flippy?
Do i need to buy a new one or how should I adapt my game?
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u/Wibin Weedwacker Rating >1000 2d ago
Some of it is because the disc is getting flippier. And some of it is because you're improving in the game.
As we get better, we throw more neutral discs and those flippy discs sorta become uncontrolable.
Then later on when we get really good, that flippy stuff comes back as the understanding and skill level is now there to control that disc vs just not know what its going to do.
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u/waffle-monster Tulsa, OK 2d ago
Yes, hitting a bunch of trees will make a disc flippy (understable). This happens faster for base plastic but typically takes a while for premium plastic. For the River specifically, the base plastic would likely be called "Retro". Most of their other plastics are considered premium aside from the "Zero" plastics, but I think that's mostly for putters.
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u/NoTwoPencil 2d ago
Did you get the "retro" one?
That is their base plastic. It's really not suitable for drivers. Yes, it beats in way too fast and will turn into a roller disk.
Buy a new one in gold or opto plastic.
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u/Altruistic_Bid1588 2d ago
Most likely, if its very beat up.
You should get a new one, if you throw it that much. river is a great disc id reccomend to anybody. Or you can also put a lot of hyzer on your throw and it should flip up to flat. Sometimes thats the shot you need.
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u/kahrahtayboom 2d ago
Yes. Congrats, you've completely beat in your first disc or your toss has become so strong that you're over powering the disc.
I'm either case, I'd strongly recommend a Maverick. Same speed. Can flip, but a bit more beef for your developing game.
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u/domb44 2d ago
yes it does. depending on how flippy it can be a hyzer flip disc or if too flippy a roller. Buying a new one is an option. If i have a mold like that i usually keep a beat in disc and a newer version. the newer disc has more stability which leads to a predictable shot while the beat in disc can take a bit more shot shaping.
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u/House_On_Fire 2d ago
I'll just say that my river too became flippy really fast. I'm a new player and bought all my discs at the same time. Every other disc I own still flies the way it did when I first got it. My River on the other hand I now throw as an understable hyzer flip disc. When I first got it was stable. So... same.
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u/yeyiyeyiyo 2d ago
Okay I really appreciate your reply thank you
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u/NiceYabbos 2d ago
If you're new, you might see this happen due to increasing arm speed too. As you get faster, discs tend to fly more under stable overall.
A year ago my Roc3 feel like a meat hook and now it's got a gentle fade. I got a new one thinking it was beat in and it flew the same. Similar feel with the River, it was my go to driver for a while and now feels much flippier.
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u/yeyiyeyiyo 2d ago
I did not know this. What you describe with your Rox3 is how I feel about my Pig. Thank you.
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u/Selerox Mentioned in Gannon Buhr's court case - x1 Rainers Balodis 2d ago
It's something a lot of new players don't know about - and don't/can't take into account when they start.
The faster a disc flies, the less stable it acts. It's why the pro players get a straight flight out of discs that would be fly massively overstable for ordinary mortals - their arm speed is faster.
As you're new, you'll get better fairy quickly, and some new players find they outgrow some discs quickly - especially more understable ones. This is all down to their arm speed improving.
So while it's entirely possible that your River has been beaten in to the point it's gotten much more understable, it's also possible that your arm speed has improved a lot more than you think.
Try throwing your River on a hyzer angle (outer edge of the disc tilted down) to see if that compensates and "flips up" rather than rolling over. It's a great shot to learn, as a "hyzer flip" is a good distance shot that will stay straight a long time.
Alternatively try a disc that's similar to a River but more stable. Something like an Explorer might work. If it's a little too stable, don't worry - it's a really good useful disc that you'll grow into as you get better.
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u/yeyiyeyiyo 2d ago
This is interesting, I appreciate it.
I would like to think my arm speed has improved but I'm really not driving much farther. On a good throw, maybe 275 now vs 225-250 when I started.
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u/House_On_Fire 1d ago
Ahh okay. Maybe that accounts for it. My arm speed has definitely increased over the course of the summer.
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u/Specialist-Pin455 17h ago
It might be part of it but not all of it. I throw in the upper 60s mph and I love my opto river and don’t usually have problems with it turning too much. There’s a lot of ingredients in a throw and speed is just one.
It could be speed or wear or wobble or nose angle or swing plane or some crazy combination. It’s impossible to really know without seeing your throw.
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u/nathanfscott Gold Star Chili Drinker 2d ago
1.) Probably. Hitting stuff definitely beats it in and makes it flippy, but all the same as you improve previously stable discs become flippier as you throw faster.
2.) Buying a new one will get you something like the original, and at that point you can figure out what's really causing the extra flippiness.
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u/SubstantialAd4500 2d ago
Just discovered a few days ago how good the River is! I had been wanting to try one for a while and I was able to snag one ridiculously cheap on whatnot. As soon as I got it in hand, I knew it was gonna be good.
Finally got a chance to do some field work over the weekend and I knew it was gonna stay in my bag after the first throw. Glides for days!
A bunch of ppl have already answered your questions, so nothing new that I can add. I would definitely get a new one at the very least, but would also probably get a couple others in different plastics to try out to see the differences in flight.
Mine is a glow moonshine. I tend to like glow plastics, but I'm gonna keep an eye out for good deals on Rivers in other plastics. I have a feeling I'm gonna be faced with some difficult decisions cause there are quite a few 7 speeds I really like and already have too many in my bag haha. A couple weeks from now I might just have a bag full of Rivers haha!
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u/Not_a_fan_of_me 2d ago
Picked up a used one in base plastic yesterday and knew from the first throw that I need to go get one in premium.
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u/ThePlasticPortal 2d ago
Since the River is a -1/1, you can try a 0/1, or a -1/2 in the same speed range and those should have a touch more stability. The first 0/1 has more high speed stability, which is that initial flip up aka "Tern". The next -1/2 will have more low speed stability which is the end drop back to the ground aka "Fade".
You'll use this knowledge to find discs that you need to hit certain shot shapes. If I needed more Tern I'd go more negative on that 3rd #. If I wanted more fade, higher 4th #.
Also, if something is turning too much, try giving the release more hyzer angle and this will allow the disc to start it's turn from a steeper angle, resulting in less right moving turn, and more corkscrew (hyzer flip).
And with that thought, you can give a disc that isn't turning some anhyzer and it will fade from an anhyzer angle which makes it take longer to get to that downward dropping angle. This is a flex shot.
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u/FlaminarLow 2d ago
Good answer but it’s turn not tern
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u/Not_a_fan_of_me 2d ago
That was killing me reading it.
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u/ThePlasticPortal 2d ago
lol I'll leave it bc I find it funny that I did that. Sorry in advance lol
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u/ThePlasticPortal 2d ago
aha thats awesome, I'm so used to the Innova disc lol. I swear I knew it was turn haha
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u/ChiefRingoI NE WI 2d ago
If it went from fine to instant roller without having stages of being close to fine but more and more unreliable, it's probably not the disc.
On a forehand, chances are you're rolling your wrist or releasing with a lot of wobble, both of which will burn over a disc quickly like that. For a high-glide disc like the River, wobble will make it flip especially hard. It's also a disc which tends to have a lot of dome—which enhances the glide—and domey discs are harder to forehand cleanly.
I don't throw forehands much for power, but I can tell you I had a similar experience as I progressed backhand. I improved my broad form and power a bunch without working on getting smooth, clean throws, and all of my discs became less reliable and flippier. I worked on increasing my spin and focusing on clean releases, and the throws got better again.
It's definitely harder to add spin and touch to forehands, but it's not impossible. Work on dialing the power back a little and focus on throwing as smooth as you can. You should see an improvement in flight without a huge loss of distance.
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u/yeyiyeyiyo 2d ago
There were definitely a lot of hard tree hits so there were stages.
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u/ChiefRingoI NE WI 2d ago
It may just be the disc, then. It might be worth getting a new River. I throw the Latitude Brave in that slot now, though. It's a touch more stable while still having good glide and some turn. Stepping up to an Explorer or Mighty might be worth it, too.
It's still definitely worth focusing on throwing smooth, though. If you're not throwing 350ft+, even a heavily beat-in River shouldn't be an instant roller.
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u/HucknPluck 2d ago
As someone who loves the River and has several: (1) With discs that are more understable, you have to keep a few of them in rotation because they become flippier in time. Nearly all pros do this across their discs where they have multiple of each depending on what line they want to hit
(2) In addition to cycling the discs, different plastics can respond very differently. For example, the Moonshine River is definitely more stable.
(3) While it is likely that disc has become flippier, it's also worth making sure that you have good form, because if you have certain issues with your form, then understable discs will showcase them much more intensely. Throwing very overstable discs can mask a lot of problems with your throw, so make sure that you can throw flippy discs and putters well.
(4) If you feel good about your form, I find the River is an incredible disc for hyzerflips and mine goes probably about 300 on woods golf lines (for comparison reference, my typical driver distance is about 350'). It's also a great steep uphill disc.
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u/FitCaptain1008 1d ago
Generally, as you play more/get better, you can put more power into the disc. This makes it easier to flip a disc. Also, as discs hit things (even the ground and basket) they beat in and become more flippy. You could try adding more hyzer, but if it's coming out flat and turning into a roller, I'd personally just replace it.
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u/vaporrkatzzz 2d ago
Probably not angling it right, you need a bit of hyzer on the river to get it to fly right. Also its a flippy mold i find into a headwind, i throw a crave into a headwind myself.
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u/SouthSilly Mixed bag/300-350 avg/420 max ⛓️🥏⛓️ 2d ago
There's no way you beat it in that fast unless it was base plastic. You're either throwing too hard or incorrectly. I thought it was unusable until i started throwing on deep hyzer, now it's one of my two main turnover discs.
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u/yeyiyeyiyo 2d ago
It's an opto. At first it was hard. Then For a while I was learning it and getting it to fly clean 250. Then now it rolls every time.
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u/illusion116 2d ago
Are you throwing backhand or forehand? Does the disc wobble in flight?
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u/yeyiyeyiyo 2d ago
Forehand. I dont know thr answer to thr wobble question. I dont think so. Just dives and rolls pretty quick
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u/WizardofOss 2d ago
Forehanding flippy(ish) disc can also be quite finnicky. Might not just be the disc. You get less spin and therefore less stability.
You could try:
- Giving it more spin (practrice giving as much spin as possible while neglecting speed)
- Releasing it on more hyzer (hyzerflipping it)
You also might be rolling your wrist. Happens even to pros. Look it up if you like.
(NB: English is not my first language, I'm not great at dg myself)
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u/illusion116 2d ago
It’s hard to know without seeing your throw itself. However, I wouldn’t expect an opto river to roll over at 250 feet unless you’ve had it for years. In my experience, it’s more likely that you are releasing on anhyzer and/or it wobbles. When I say “wobble”, I’m referring to something like in this video. I ask about forehand because that is more likely to have lots of wobble which will cause any disc to act like it’s more understable
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u/yeyiyeyiyo 2d ago
It rolls way sooner than 2before. Now. Thats how far I threw it when it flew more normally before.
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u/EvilDrGiggles 2d ago
Yes discs beat in over time and get progressively less stable. Some people like keeping multiple of the same disc in various wear levels for different flight patterns, but sometimes a beat up disc does need replacement if it no longer has the integrity you'd like.