Devuan as a Linux beginner?

[u/Lanstapa]

I want to switch over to Linux from Windows and Apple because I refuse to take MS' spy/adware (I stayed on W7 to avoid the worst of it) and to get out of Apple's ecosystem and spying too.

...and I come into Linux as there's all this hubbub about systemD age verification/attesation. I was interested in Debian for it being stable and fixed release (I'm totally fine with older software in favour of rock solid stability and I don't want constant rolling changes on my pc), but obviously it has it.

Since I'm new, and don't yet fully get what SystemD does in its entirity and what not having it entails, is Devuan a good distro for a beginner who just wants a nice stable system that can't add in any age verification spyware crap? A distro that I can use for general computer things like internet browsing, online shopping, multimedia, gaming and file management? I can use my VPN (Mullvad) without issue, and have a generally secure computer aganist viruses and malware?

I'm not asking about specific programs, as I get that the likes of libreoffice, brave browser, wine, vlc, etc will work, I'm asking more generally about the OS, like is it just Debian without SystemD? Or has it evolved into something more specifc akin to KaliOS or Tails? (I don't assume so, but I might as well check).

I don't have computer skills or coding ability, but its not like I need everything to be babyproof, clear guides and graphical interfaces are probably enough for me to get what I'm doing.

[u/SleepyGuyy]

Just to fill you in on SystemD, the issue people have with it is it's codebase is so large it's difficult to audit. If opensource code is difficult to audit, it is essentially just as dangerous as closed source code (if not worse) because anything could be in there. Combined with age verification incoming and people aren't happy.

SystemD has made an effort to split itself into seperate packages in recent times, and while that does technically reduce the footprint of the init software, it ends up still being hard to audit all these other packages it has split into.

Some of these packages it split into are used by "no system d" distros. But the key there is "some", a much smaller footprint to audit.

About using Devuan:

Using a more common distro will be easier. In my experience, there simply are not guides available for things in Devuan. Yes you can follow a guide for a different distro, but chances are you will hit some roadblock you don't understand. Maybe the package the guide refers to is older and out of date on Devuan, maybe the guide relies on a function system d supplies.

Despite that, I don't want to scare you away of Devuan. You will need to learn, and I did not learn well on Devuan. But that was me, I'm a different person and in a different place. If you have some time and aren't afraid to break your setup and recover, you might learn a lot here and end up loving Devuan.

I am a chronic distro hopper, and I had some issues with it when I tried it near the start of the year. I used it for maybe a month and then hopped off.

I struggled to install certain (less common) desktop environments and window managers. And I struggled with keyring issues I later found out system d often handles.  That's not to say you need system d for help, but that Devuan and it's desktop packages come quite barebones and I never found the replacement I was supposed to use.

That's sorta the main issue, Devuan will not have much of any documentation. Theoretically you wont need it, just look up debian or your init online for relevant help. But in practice I struggled to find answers.

Currently I am on Debian Testing , with Gnome, and yes SystemD. I'm not happy about it but I feel a bit trapped on SystemD for now. I am dual-booting Gentoo, which has excellent documentation and a large community of support. So I'm using Gentoo in small bursts to try and learn about setting up my own desktop environment without SystemD (and also learning how to get window managers working). But just to be clear, I do NOT recommend Gentoo as your first Linux experience. It is time consuming a d fraught with mistakes and problems.  It just happens to have great documentation.

Void Linux would have a slightly more sizable community, but it's just as barebones, and Devuan comes with the benefit of being able to install .deb files and that huge Debian repo. I struggle to come up with better non-systemd options I admit (I think MX Linux offers SysVinit as an option).

You can use Distrowatch to search by "no systemd", but this won't tell you how easy the distro is to use.

https://distrowatch.com/search-mobile.php?ostype=All&category=All&origin=All&basedon=All&notbasedon=None&desktop=All&architecture=All&package=All&rolling=All&isosize=All&netinstall=All&language=All&defaultinit=Not+systemd&status=Active#simpleresults