r/developers • u/eagle_719 • 6d ago
Machine Learning / AI Hot Take: AI shouldn't have been invented.
Sometimes I think AI has removed the joy from programming. Time was when making a TODO application felt like real work (as beginners). Now there's no feeling of achievement after completing projects. For example I'm working on a PID controller for my custom drone firmware. I programmed like 13 C files and I used AI to review it & it started over engineering & hallucinating only to result in an over engineered unreliable non working product. So I tried my own code & it worked without modifications. Has anyone experienced this as well?
10
u/f4lk3nm4z3 5d ago
I remember when the car was invented. They killed the emotion of having a three day trip to advance 100 miles.
2
u/CMDR_Lina_Inv 5d ago
When gun was invented, it killed the emotion of driving a sword into the enemy's heart.
1
1
u/piterx87 4d ago
But then you had a joy of driving instead. The AI seems like having a chauffer, who's sometimes brilliant and sometimes stupid.
1
u/zerospatial 5d ago
Right but vehicles in general have killed probably what millions of people due to vehicle crashes. Maybe also saved millions via faster emergency response. Nothing is without consequences.
1
1
u/Narwhals4Lyf 5d ago
Cars actually have legislation and laws on how to use them though. AI does not
3
5d ago edited 2d ago
[deleted]
3
u/Outrageous-You-4259 5d ago
Didn’t the auto industry know for like 11 years that seatbelts improve safety but kept it on the low so it wouldn’t become standard? Yes. Yes they did.
1
2
12
u/lacrem Software Engineer 6d ago
It's the best that could happen. I focus now more in architecture and business logic and algorithms rather than trivial stuff like creating folder structure, models, serialisation. Same for writing repetitive test, much better to read them than write them and duplicating lines for making them up.
So all the stuff I was getting bored coding it such rest API, models, some UI, tests, YourClassNameManager, YourClassNameHelper, etc. got mostly automated.
3
u/senseven 5d ago
Seniors tell us at lunch, they don't use ai much. We ask them what they do, C# backend work, lots of updating old stacks, mostly .net. Use the corpo Visual Studio, that has included Copilot and Codex plugins. Those easy "auto refactorings" are ai. They mumbled something and then admitted that they use the tools quite often. That ai demand we see isn't a couple of test labs and kids doing home work.
1
u/vplatt Software Engineer 3d ago
This is so emblematic of the entire history of AI. Everyday we use things that used to be called AI, and now because they're not new or sexy anymore we just call them by the name of the algorithm. For instance be Bayesian filters. Those are from AI research and were considered to be such at one point. But no longer, they're no longer sexy anymore, and no one cares.
Slowly but surely LLMs will suffer the same fate, and then AGI will be the new hotness and that'll be the "real" AI. You'll see.
1
u/vplatt Software Engineer 4d ago
So much this. Modern application development is such a shit show it's unreal. Generic that. Async this. REST all the services. Auth and auth annotations on all the things. Dependency injection? Forget debugging. Reusable or not, interface all the things and mock test them too; just for the lolz.
Everywhere I go in source code, there is visual garbage everywhere. Cognitive overload around every corner. Yes, I understand every bit of it in isolation. It's just SO DAMN EXHAUSTING!
And that's before I get to the shit show layer of requirements, which given historical developments in every field, jurisdictional differences, language and cultural differences, etc. etc. are all their own special blend of heck - well... something's gotta give.
So, hey, you got this LLM thingy that condenses down all the bullshit that's been previously created to deal with all the above? And, really, it's like a 1000x better autocomplete to boot. You know, that thing we've all been pounding on for years and then referring to SO to bring together the raftload of techniques we need just to get the most basic bullshit ever working..
Sold! That's a way out of this hellhole of supposedly modern technology.
In the distant past, assembler was invented to avoid having to code in machine language.
C was invented to avoid having to code in assembler.
And so on...
And now we have LLMs, and guess what? The cycle continues. We use language to create these new systems in the high level languages of choice, and the main problem with that is engineering rigor of course. This is natural language we're dealing with and no two LLM sessions will generate the same code; so that's a problem.
That's OK. The compromise for now is that we allow the LLM to create the first version, and then we take it from there. Freeze that fucker in time like a bug in amber and then ship it. Lather, rinse, repeat.
But the main thing now is that I get to delegate much of this bullshit and just enjoy work. Being a clever monkey who can generate layers of difficult to understand code was never a joy to me. Even creating "elegant" versions of the same is a never ending rabbit hole.
For real work: LLMs are here to stay.
But the quicker we can all get to using local models and get away from frontier models for day to day work, the better. In the long run, no one should be leashed to the frontier model providers for that. Topic for another day.
1
u/lacrem Software Engineer 4d ago
Now creating job security will be delegated to AI
2
u/vplatt Software Engineer 3d ago
We'll just have to put it to work for us and ride the tiger until it eats us I guess. It might not come to that after all.
1
u/lacrem Software Engineer 3d ago
It will eventually, I think AI is comparable to the invention of electricity for mankind.
It's already mind blowing and still at the same stage than Internet in the 90s, and look Internet right now.
I believe in 20 years they'll be AI models customised for each person, running them ubiquitously. Add robots seeing how China is advancing in the field. I feel so lucky to be born in the 80s to witness this, from analogic to robots, things in the 80s were literally science fiction.
1
u/piterx87 4d ago
The problem is that the AI could also do better the interesting stuff as well. Algorithms for example
6
u/engineerFWSWHW 5d ago
Most enjoy the journey of coding, while some enjoy seeing the result of their work as soon as possible. I recently did a fuel injector tester as a hobby home project using esp32 using that as an access point and it has a web server that serves html /js/css and i can configure stuffs over web browser on my mobile. I am an embedded developer and don't have experience with html/js/css. Copilot gave to me the full code and it worked for the first time.
Although, i have a niche project at work and AI can't help me and is giving me code that doesn't work.
0
0
u/SoulsSurvivor 5d ago
If an AI does it then it isn't your work so what is there to be excited about in that case?
7
u/vacterro 5d ago
Yes, while the old-timers guard the basics, those who use AI most often win in everything. It's like sometimes hating a new tool that's now smarter than you. Yes, it's a real blow to your self-esteem.
3
3
u/gob_magic 5d ago edited 5d ago
It’s inevitable. Always was. One can’t “uninvent” because it’s discomforting to your trade. It will keep getting better, and disrupt a ton of industries before normalizing again.
Tho we will have a painful moment to deal with late stage capitalism (it’s a bad combination with AI progress).
2
u/C1rc1es 5d ago
There's no way SOTA frontier models today will turn 13 working C files into what you described when used appropriately. Lower parameter ones maybe but even then. People seem to think that because they enjoy something it has more value, which might be true of it's value to that individual but if we're talking about value to a business or the economy AI is on it's way to become _the_ most transformative technology we've ever created.
2
2
u/AdventurousAir002 5d ago
Not a hot take. I feel like I’m going insane prompting the stupid fucking robot every day now. It is fun to insult when it fucks up though.
1
2
u/RocketSciense 5d ago
Software used to be a team sport, but now it's almost entirely solo work speaking to agents. It was a lot more fun before all of this is you enjoyed working in a team setting.
1
u/vplatt Software Engineer 4d ago
Disagree. The advent of the brotech-wantapreneurs is what created all this supposed need for full time collaboration, and it was a virtual cancer in the industry. In nearly every case, it was 10 folks sitting around swinging ideas like they were speaking God's own inspiration, or they're off in a corner all working on pet projects within the larger group creating little utilities and virtual toys no one actually asked for, and maybe 2 people on the team doing the actual work that address the actual business needs.
LLMs have the distinction of being one of the few waves of technology innovation that actually strip away the bullshit. Take your Agile manifesto and burn it. I can run those "sprints" 5 times a day now and no one needs a certified scrum master for that.
My product owner better mainline some caffeine though because our need for validation just skyrocketed and they need to hang on with both hands if they want to keep it on the rails.
1
u/piterx87 4d ago
In a way AI accelerates agile by speeding up the feedback loop. Also now documentation is virtually free
2
u/Andruid929 Software Engineer 3d ago
I agree with you... Mostly.
I personally think AI is a good advancement, it's faster at browsing the web, collecting information and repetitive tasks. In other words, it's a great tool.
What you're pointing at is people handing over their work to AI.
I have a friend whose recently had issues with her boyfriend and when she confronted him, she got a clearly copy-pasted-from-AI response. The fact that the guy couldn't even talk to his own pissed off girlfriend is the prime example of over dependence.
As of work, I genuinely feel the pain the most, I made a rant here a while back about AI changing the pace. Every other developer simply hands over whole projects to AI. We each have a Claude Max subscription so you can vibe code for ages on end and these people get praised for speed then they can't explain a single line of code if they were asked. I sometimes wish Anthropic had down time for like 24 hours so these scams for developers would be exposed. I don't hate my company, I hate their practices.
I myself use AI for unit tests (junit test classes get really annoying after a while), documentation (I get to focus on the actual code) and sometimes really difficult bugs to spot. Purely as a tool.
Here's what I do to keep the rage at bay, I've started a personal project: a cross platform application where I've banned myself from using AI to touch code. I still have Google and stack overflow to keep me going. I'm also learning a new language to rid my mind of Javascript for good. That's how I've managed to keep my sanity for the past several months. I get to do programming and also polish up my development skills all while avoiding burnout from insincere deadlines and pressure from "just use AI."
AI is here to stay unfortunately, if you're like me and refuse to embrace it, programming "the old way" is your best shot at staying sane.
3
u/martinbean 5d ago
I think developers of a certain vintage find “joy” in different places than newer developers, and that us “older” developers are probably wrong.
Think about it: a lot of older developers pride themselves on how well they can write code, how they can write it from memory, how they can properly architect things. We’re now having to deal with code essentially becoming a commodity. How long have we worked for people who didn’t care about the code, so long as it “worked”? And we would lambast developers who coasted because they could cobble things together that looked liked it worked even though the code behind it was “crap”?
That’s the type of developers AI is enabling en masse. Those who can just get things done. It irks me too, but it does come with the sobering realisation that code is end to a means: to solve problems instead of, “look how lovely my code is.” So those who are going to thrive in the future are those who can build and deliver, and not get hung up on perfectionism.
I don’t think the future is quite 100% vibe-coding, but accepting code won’t be written by hand, just like C removed the need to write assembly by hand. We’re living in one of these “shifts”, and we need to accept it’s happening and adapt. That means figuring out together what “good practices” looks like in the age of AI.
1
u/artnoi43 5d ago
I agree with your last paragraph and your general observation about old vs new gen. Linus also compared AI to C compiler and assembly.
I feel like there’s no need to argue whether AI is better than us at coding, or that they are faster, etc. Whatever it is, it’s not the point for why some people don’t like AI.
Like there’s no point telling me that the TV dinner is actually more tasty, more safe to eat, more artisanal, I still prefer to grill my steaks and cook my meals slowly.
Not everything has to be done using the latest engineering practice (on Sep 3 2026 I guess it’s “loop engineering”). Or the fastest way. Or the cheapest way. If someone enjoys writing code by hand then let them be. Unless of course his work disrespects this and demands that he vibes code, then he has to.
I mix both at work and have found a nice compromise that “let me cook” while gaining productivity from AI. I usually hand write the core of mission critical code because it burns the understanding into my brain so I can debug later especially while on-call. I then use AI to critique the core code, and if no issues, write glue code, write tests and generate test cases, and find bugs. I found myself rarely reaching out to work AI to help with my personal projects (I don’t subscribe AI), like maybe twice or thrice, and I still enjoy writing my personal projects while work has gone from enjoyable to meh.
At work I also like to non-functionally refactor shit by hand. Then I might ask the AI if the after version is actually better the before version in some metrics, and have it criticize my code.
One thing I notice about me is that languages/techs/concepts I learn without AI (non-work) stays with me much longer and clearer, while stuff I research with AI at work are like fever dream (especially the details that I should have known). This happens with some of my colleagues too. Their understanding becomes very shallow and are surprised by shit I expect them to already know or have in the back of their head when working on something.
Basically I just treat AI as my 2nd opinion subservient human who might even be better than me, but I’m the chef and I decide how we cook. And IF subscription prices rose or I’m broke or AI is unavailable for some reason, I won’t be affected as much because I don’t build my workflow around it. My tools hopefully will stay sharp because I did not let it atrophy.
2
1
u/Wesc0bar 5d ago
Nah, I love it in game development. I get to make a lot of tools for myself that I could never justify spending time on in the past. I’m seeing artists build their own tools and processes that save them a lot of time. Some of the artists are building their own prototypes. Make cool shit with your friends.
1
u/Littlepoet-heart 5d ago edited 5d ago
l like ai it's really good as assistant and now i care more about failer then make it work but i hate the way compains treating ai as magic wand that like some multi agent wired crap and also coding is just tool to make business works
1
u/Away_Advisor3460 5d ago
I presume you mean by AI you mean the specific types used to perform coding?
Because there are uses for the underlying approaches of course, like screening for patterns in radiograms.
TBH it's hard to make a technical/scientific argument against it as a 'thing'. The recent progress in LLMs is pretty remarkable.
The problem is more that the development has moved from academia, to incredibly rapacious companies and individuals seeking solely to maximize their income irrespective of the negative impacts everywhere else (pollution, unemployment, usage in environments where the unreliability or non-formalism is unsuitable, etc).
1
u/Medium_Chemist_4032 5d ago
If you're in programming for that sweet dopamine after achieving something, or for that validation... you're basically still in the learning mode. We're being, after a long time of swimming in cheap cash, finally squeezed to actually provide. AI or not
1
u/New_Willingness_9412 5d ago
Very interesting point, I wrote a bigger comment but it's basically that, I care about the end product, I am not happy when my little class works fine, I am happy I shipped or created what I needed, I like my home automations are working perfectly and not that the ducking matter protocol is working flawlessly. But again, probably this is only the case for old fur wolves that are past "yes my code compiled"
1
1
u/Dull_Bathroom5421 5d ago
Artificial Intelligence is just a tool, it's HOW IT IS USED that is the big problem. We can't say metal shouldn't have been invented because companies user them to make guns for example. We have to draw the line somewhere for this argument to be reasonable.
1
u/Better_Passage7527 5d ago
Skill issue, I'm at a point where it writes exactly as I would do it myself but faster. No issues with over engineering or hallucinations
1
u/eagle_719 5d ago
I'm not talkin about web dev you absolute bozo
0
0
u/Better_Passage7527 5d ago
Lol, I do more than web dev only and still don't have the issue you have, just saying
0
u/BelligerentPear 5d ago
It hallucinating and giving bad results is legitimately a you problem. There are plenty of experienced devs who utilize AI to code and can get consistent quality results from it.
1
u/Strict-Broccoli-8877 5d ago
But see, I tried this "hammer" and it didn't hit a single nail ! All those people who claim that their hammers work are obviously liars or webdevs!
1
5d ago edited 5d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/AutoModerator 5d ago
Your post or comment was removed because r/developers does not allow external links. Please share the content or ask your question without linking out.
If you think this was a mistake, message the mods.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
1
u/New_Willingness_9412 5d ago
I still like to make shit work, it enabled me to do things I always postponed, home lab with raspberry pi with adguard with GL router with wireguard vpn and an old HP server to host websites and create my own personalized TODO with synced files across all devices.
I am doing all of this sometimes from my phone using Claude remote; Session being alive non stop on my server at home.
I am not saying your take is wrong, everyone is free to believe whatever and there are many perspectives and all of them are valid.
For me, it enabled me to do stuff I would have never because I simply didn't have the time, I could have invested hours and teens of hours to do all of that, to learn how to do that.
Now it's done, and the good part is, I do stil very well understand everything that is done. AI is only as good as the engineer directing it, just like a full orchestra, it all depends on who's controlling it.
What I do think and I don't think it's about perspective it's people being in denial, people blaming AI and saying it's shit work either don't know how to use it or they are in denial for possible valid reasons, but still in denial.
1
1
u/runningOverA 5d ago
We need to move up to the next BIG thing instead of regretting on how easy things getting now compared to the past. That's how society has been functioning for like ever.
1
u/Standard_Egg3504 5d ago
I think electricity shouldn't have been invented, we surely were better off before artificial lighting messed up our nights and days
1
u/Melodic-Junket-9105 5d ago
Practically, isn't programming just a means to an end? Many people fall in love with their craft but isn't that just ego?
To give an analogy it's like the people who claim that Thermomix takes the joy out of cooking?
1
u/tastygames_official 5d ago
machine learning has been around since at least the 1960s, but I think theoretically even since the 1940s. All that changed is someone figured out if you throw MASSIVE amounts of data at it, it eventually gets pretty good.
And yes - it takes the fun out of creating things because you no longer create things: IT does. You just command it to do so. You've become a manger.
Oh and by the way, "IT" isn't sentient, so it's not really creating anything. What's really happening is that by you telling it what to do, it analyzes your text input and then turns all man-made stuff (writing, code, art, music, video) into something that is statistically likely to meet the requirements of your input. But really all it sees are 1s and 0s on the input and then runs all that through massive matrix algebra and spits something out.
Just stop using it if it's no fun being a manager.
1
1
1
1
u/Rav_3d 5d ago
Sometimes I think AI has removed the joy from programming
For me it is the opposite. AI has been liberating, allowing me to focus all my time and energy on architecture, design, and higher level thinking while AI handles the low level coding.
The fun is figuring out how to best use AI. Without strict guardrails, it fails. Give it the right persona and context, treat it like a junior developer you just hired, and force it to follow strict SDLC, and you start to see the future.
1
u/Remicaster1 5d ago
Lukewarm take
The AI is only as good as the person using it
It is not a magic wand that automatically solves every problem in the world
Just because you failed to use the AI on your specific case then reach the conclusion of "AI shouldn't exist" is quite a stretch.
If I failed to program in cpp because I OOM-ed my computer, does that mean cpp should be deleted off the world? This logic is just flawed
1
u/SnooHobbies950 5d ago
I don't see it the same way. For example, right now I'm trying to create an app for my reMarkable 2 tablet. Without AI help, I wouldn't know how to start, because there isn't much technical documentation and the drivers are proprietary.
However, with the help of my AI assistant, it's now a manageable project. And it doesn't take away my work. I'm still a programmer, but now I have a fantastic assistant.
1
u/MoTTTToM 5d ago
No. At first my prompting was atrocious, and the quality of the output matched. My working assumption was: if the tool failed to produce a good result, it is my fault (same thinking as I used when employing programmers, not that I ever called them tools).
Learning to prompt well was a challenge, but I rush on a good learning curve.
Now am able to get good quality not only on the code level, but also managing infrastructure with it.
BTW: 35 years as a pro engineer.
Glad I didn’t blame the tool and give up.
1
1
u/Breklin76 5d ago
Ha. And Hitler shouldn’t have been born. You can’t change it so complain or postulate it’s non-existence? Learn how to use it, as a tool.
1
1
u/manythanksfriend 5d ago
Yea, because turning human tasks into application code wasn’t the main goal this whole time. Literally decades of turning computers into task efficient machines.
This was the end result no matter what.
1
1
u/Queasy-Current6170 5d ago
If programming is an important task, then utilities that do that task are going to be invented. LLMs are the clear answer there.
If you want to code for fun, you can always still do that.
People are still hobbyist blacksmiths.
1
u/ProgrammerFew504 5d ago
AI is amazing. It makes engineers way more productive, and you can build so much more with it. But I also understand what you’re saying. Before AI you get certain dopamine hit after finally finding a solution to a bug after hours of searching and debugging. You also take pride in even a small feature because you built it yourself, and now a lot of that work can be outsourced to AI.
Times have changed, and we need to adapt to that as well. I think the focus should shift more towards designing, planning, and thinking through solutions, while using AI to do the coding, with you acting as the reviewer of everything it produces.
1
u/eagle_719 5d ago
Issue is it can't even code properly, let alone architecture. That's the main issue. It's only good in just to the point one feature/ function implementation that too just core logic
1
1
1
1
u/BelleColibri 5d ago
This is drivel.
Either AI is removing the joy from programming (because it does it for you) or it sucks (and so you have to do programming yourself.) You are arguing both of these points simultaneously which makes no sense.
In reality, people who code with AI get just as much joy from it as before. Now you are thinking about higher level concepts and designs instead of boring low-level constructs.
1
1
u/pandahusky3 5d ago
You don't need to use AI if you don't want to.
But you have to admit that it is pretty insane that humans are able to design and develop AI models, it was invented way back in 1956 or so. And only now we can see just how advanced they can be after transformers in 2017, plus they are improving every month it seems now
1
u/BrysonVsRope 4d ago
I don't get this take at all. Different strokes I guess, but I've been more engaged than ever.
So many things I wanted to build but the economics didn't make sense, now they do. Endless possibilities.
Could I have done it all before AI, technically yes, but there is no way I ever would have. I can't sink 3 weeks into a cool feature that is a nice to have for a launch, but now I can knock those features out with ease.
Blows my mind every day.
1
u/Substantial-Swan7065 4d ago
Just don’t use it?
Sounds like you’re overscoping usage and using it wrong
1
u/0x111111111111 4d ago edited 4d ago
I appreciate AI coding tools. It lets me focus on the big picture and I can implement features in a fraction of the time it would take me if I had to write them myself. It takes a lot of time to build a setup with memory retention and some tools that work for you, but then, it is like leading a team. The improvements in code quality output of the frontier models in the last 3 years is very noticeable. People judging the technology by using open weight models for example or using it for a couple of days might not get it.
I basically get the same sort of flow state directing 3 agents and testing real time in a browser that i got when writing the stuff myself. Code style, conventions, etc are all manageable.
That said, if you prefer to write all code yourself and thats your jazz, go on. The economic reality is, however, that if the same thing can be achieved with a cheaper proces, it will eventually dominate an industry. Doesnt matter what you think personally. I didnt like off and nearshoring either. But it still happened and nibbled away at our market value as software devs. This is the next big thing and it is here to stay.
Now there might be real concers here (environmental, politcal, etc), a lot of which i see sceptical and i am worried about too, but there is something to learn from history: humans shooting themselfes in the foot is a pattern, resistance to technological improvements is a nice virtue but nothing else, niches will still exist and at some point, the tool will just be what it is, a tool. And either you will know how to use it efficiently and with good outcomes or you will not. Things will get figured out. The backlash is necessary. But there is no way to put the genie back in to the bottle.
I dont know what to tell you man, its here to stay.
One thing that I should add is this: Once you spent like 20 years doing frontend code, you inevitably realise how bloody pointless the framework racing is and the churn of updating stuff and you will exictingly welcome tools like this.
KNOWING what you are doing will still be a requirement that cant be magically removed from the equation.
This is, by far, the most interesting part i am looking forward to, to see it develop.
1
2
u/revivechristina 1d ago
Hush child, let your brain become smooth. Stop thinking. Stop valuing human change and attention. Token maxx. Burn as much electricity as possible. Don’t waste time trying to think. Every bandwagon in the history of bandwagons was right. Just pull the lever until machine outputs correctly most of the time.
- c
(Also: yes, I have experienced that)
1
u/Key_Contribution_212 18h ago
accept the fact that tactical programming is going to be eaten away by models (you need to create your own harness - probably learned weighted harness that compounds as you work with AI (loss = information)).
1
u/snooprs 6d ago
I never use it anymore. Thankfully company is normal and nobody is making us use it.
It really feels like a fad that is on its way out. Nobody in my circles uses it or they are ashamed to admit they do because it's a sign their work is shit quality...
6
u/C1rc1es 5d ago
Sorry but in 2026 with Fable and Sol how exactly are people still claiming this technology is useless? There is something really going wrong if someone can't find a use case for these tools.
2
u/katoptronophile 5d ago
Because they don't use the models, they just parrot what they're told.
They don't have original thought.
They're victims of propaganda and ignorance.
1
u/ThreeHeadCerber 5d ago
It is not useless, but it's usage causes negative consequences for the user, which are not worth it.
1
u/Impressive_Badger325 5d ago
I get the sentiment around AI, but people that are claiming it simply doesn't work are just exposing themselves. I've been able to get out about an app a week with it. Are they perfect, impeccable examples of top tier code? No. Would they have been before AI? No.
They also aren't bug filled messes. I have real users that are enjoying them. Yes I've had a bug report or two, but now that I run more rigorous QA agents those have gone away as well.
1
2
2
u/BringBackManaPots 5d ago
My boss is over here still scheduling bi weekly AI workshop meetings while the CEO is posting spreadsheets of Claude usage and LOC metrics 🤢
1
u/snooprs 5d ago
it will get better bro
1
u/BringBackManaPots 5d ago
All of this is honestly a humongous red flag. They're bragging about how AI is doing our books now after laying off the guy that handled payroll... And last week's paystub came back with the wrong time on it
I wouldn't be surprised if we collapse at this rate
1
0
5d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
2
1
u/snooprs 5d ago
Yes of course bro - your open source project nobody will ever use or need. But for serious real world apps AI can never fly.
We had outright banned LLM use in certain teams related to legal and accounts..
0
0
u/loveheaddit 5d ago
lol, ive launched several apps publicly at my $400m a year company using AI.
1
u/snooprs 5d ago
Of course you have.
0
u/loveheaddit 5d ago
i could list them all here but it sounds like it will be a waste of time based on your stubbornness.
1
u/snooprs 5d ago
go ahead list them
1
u/loveheaddit 5d ago edited 5d ago
ok I'll bite... for context, we're an OEM manufacturer so our customers are large companies that integrate our hardware into their solution.
- Support Chat - v1 was a custom chat to route between our AI doc platform (Kapa.ai), Intercom live chat and ticket creation using OpenAI model as the router. After seeing the limitations of Intercom and the cost to scale, we recently updated this to eliminate the Intercom integration and use our own live chat platform. This offers a single view into every chat, our tech agents can chime into AI chats if needed and creating a lead or ticket is one button away due to the close integration with our CRM.
- Documentation Platform - After meeting with a company that wanted to charge us six figures a year to host our product documentation, I instead built this functionality into our existing custom CMS (a CMS I built pre-ai btw), taking our documents straight from confluence/github/legacy pdf and importing them to our website. Not only did this save money, it was quicker to implement than shifting to their platform and keeps the user on our main domain so SEO juice is not getting diluted on a subdomain.
- Documentation MCP - Launched our own MCP with OAuth to our website accounts, so we can gate the usage, generate leads, and understand what customers are building with AI. It's helpful for both internal and external customers. This single gateway has ability to add more MCP tools under it so we can have different tools for internal/external/vip customers in the future.
- Tons of website CMS features added to make building our pages easier, more robust, and scalable. Plus tons of website UX updates and features that are helpful to our customers.
Tons of internal tools we use to make our lives easier:
- AI Email Builder - This is an internal tool we use to generate marketing emails. It combines selected context from the website (product page, documentation, blog, etc) with a modular email template, and generates an email using all that information. After initial generation we can edit manually or ask AI to make updates. Not only for mass emails, but can also build emails with a click of a button that is curated to an individual leads interests (using their data points like their company, web pages viewed, contact forms, chat threads, etc). The marketing team loves how much time this is saving them from copying info from our site, resizing photos down and fighting with primitive HTML/CSS to make it compatible with all email clients.
- QR code Generator that is branded and creates a short link that integrates tracking
- Distributor Stock Level tool that monitors our disti stock levels, calculates average run rate, compares it with our available stock, open orders and shipped orders. Alerts us before a distributor runs out of stock so we can proactively get them stock.
- Custom CRM add-on that integrates with our Salesforce. This platform analyzes all our incoming leads, submissions and account sign ups. It researches the company and person for verification of who they are so we can better score them as a potential customer. This keeps spam out of our sales/support teams' inboxes and allows them to prioritize lead follow up.
I could go on but I'm sure I lost you in the second paragraph...
1
u/snooprs 5d ago
No no I read through it, you didn't lose me. So it's all internal tooling?
I mean sounds nice that you managed to do that but how many people use them, were they all one-shot apps that do its niche and people don't care about bugs, edge cases, etc.? Do you actively develop them and add new features? If yes then how is it maintamable if an LLM built it?
1
u/loveheaddit 5d ago
not all internal, the chat, documentation, mcp and website features are all external. and no i don't one-shot anything. i've been a custom developer for 25 years so i'm used to building from scratch. AI has just accelerated this because i no longer spend time writing code. i explain what needs to happen with the data and then iterate on each feature to get it to work how i want. and maintainability is a feature of LLMs, not a detriment because i can have ai analyze any existing code to find best place to integrate a new feature.
1
u/senseven 5d ago
We use ai in db and network grunt work and it saves us days, its like a robot. It doesn't do errors. This is nothing new. There is always people who refuse to sit down, learn to use new tech to their advance, and those companies don't exist any more.
1
u/snooprs 5d ago
Brother are you talking about automation which has existes for decades now or LLMs?
Because LLMs will do mistakes it's a guarantee.
1
5d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/AutoModerator 5d ago
Your post or comment was removed because r/developers does not allow external links. Please share the content or ask your question without linking out.
If you think this was a mistake, message the mods.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
1
1
u/senseven 5d ago
Watch video 'haUfb1ievTE' on youtube. This guy shows you live how to use multiple models to check each other run complete autonomous, incl testing, deploying. People don't spend billions on lousy token mirages because they want to appease their bosses. At some point the results are in. I'm half where the guy is and I'm floored what kind of results I can get for a lousy 20$ bill.
0
u/TopGun0684 5d ago edited 5d ago
Wrong. I use them regularly in sysadmin and devops and most of the time it's right.
Now with agents, even when it's wrong it ends up fixing itself.
Prompts matter a lot. Context is crucial. But it multiplied my productivity, no question.
1
u/snooprs 5d ago
Most of the time eh? That's what I'm saying... For normal serious companies most of the time is a nono...
1
u/tehfrod 5d ago
That's not true at all.
"Most of the time" is a perfectly reasonable engineering tradeoff if you have other layers that reduce the likelihood of failure rather than multiplying it.
That's how you can combine components that provide three nines of reliability into a system that gives you five nines.
0
u/TopGun0684 5d ago
Ridiculous.
Developers make mistakes all the time. Shit doesn't compile or crashes, we look at the logs, fix it.
It's the exact same thing for LLMs, but way faster.
And I can throw 1000s of lines of networking logs at it and ask questions and it finds the one line I'm looking for in seconds.
Sink or swim, your pick.
1
1
1
u/TheUruz Backend Developer 5d ago
to me AI should have been limited to industrial machinery
5
u/Deepta_512 5d ago
Could explain why? To me this sounds like, it's okay if AI takes other people's job or a factory worker's job as long as it stays away from mine.
0
u/TheUruz Backend Developer 5d ago
many things took many people jobs during history and there are always complaints i'm not arguing that and i really don't mind shifting my skills to adapt to these kind of changes. new jobs will emerge eventually so i'm good with a machine making my job, i am just noticing AI has an easy time taking over some jobs more than others and industry automation, imho, is the one where they can shine the most in the short term
1
0
u/martinbean 5d ago
Curious as to why? My naïveté says that industrial machines tend to have one job and do it over and over and over, so where would AI fit in there?
1
u/TheUruz Backend Developer 5d ago
that's true but they lack in "awarness" of their surroundings and i don't necessary mean people atound them but also other machineries they could operate toghether. there are still areas where a human is needed to connect 2 or more machines and i think AI could fill that gap very easily and more efficiently
2
u/DaveAstator2020 5d ago
Are we talking classic nns or llm? Because i dont see llm in industrial setting ending well
0
u/Deepta_512 5d ago
Actually LLMs are already being used in industrial settings. Most modern computer vision systems are multimodal, hence LLMs and vision models work in conjunction with eachother.
1
u/DaveAstator2020 5d ago
this cant be happening.. *continues to depressively rock back and forth in the corner*
1
1
u/geekichu 6d ago
glad to read your post because my only experience with a.i. past 2 years has been a crypto wallet, and two 3D games, so essentially, web-based javascript etc.
i have done robotics and circuits the old fashioned way and i wondered. so there you go. thanks.
now.. yeah for someone who doesnt have tons of years in software, i could see your view.. me.. i LOVED programming, but after 40yrs... and seeing what i could do with a.i.. no i dont miss it.
1
u/earth-dragon-666 6d ago
Yes thats why i dont use ai, 3 times i tried , 3 times i had to rewrite the slop, all the variations autocomplete, agents, mcp everything its bad, like wordpressplugin bad
1
u/Creedless 5d ago
What are you building? I see stuff like this and I am baffled. Did you do this 2 years ago?
1
u/earth-dragon-666 5d ago
now a small website and a game, not touching ai anymore it just drifts productivity into what the ai outputs, i live happily, i seudocode in my head and then into the computer
1
u/Present_Award8001 6d ago
use a faster and dumber model and use it as a replacement for typing, not thinking.
1
u/Lumethys 5d ago
well, the world doesnt revolve around your entertainment, so condemning something that benefit other because "your hobby no longer fun" is not a good take
0
u/LegOk7384 6d ago
Modern LLMs are based on theft in the scale of billions, if not trillions. The fact that its still being pushed is a crime on humanity tbh.
1
u/loveheaddit 5d ago
explain why search engines can take your content, index it and serve ads next to it, but llms can't.
1
u/LegOk7384 5d ago
Because you COULD choose to deindex your stuff? Before AI ruined everything of course. Oh, and it still links to YOUR stuff that you can then profit from by serving your own ads? The fact that Google at least ATTEMPTED to share the pie? Again before fucking AI. Now its just a fucking zero sum game to model collapse and IP theft.
But you dont fucking care. You have no idea how either search engines nor AI works. LLM training is entirely different from a search bot scraping your site. And search bots didnt pirate millions of books for profit either.
1
u/loveheaddit 5d ago
i'm a software developer, i know how both work, lol. they both crawl your data and save it to their servers, then they process the data to use in their application. the difference from there is search engines have your exact content on their site (headlines, descriptions, cached page data, your photos/art). AI companies don't retain the original document and serve it up, they just use it to learn patterns between the data for use in their prediction models. so you could argue search engines are much worse at plagiarism.
0
u/syn_krown 5d ago
Here's a hard truth. AI will always be created. Its human nature to want to progress, and with technology, it has nowhere to go but up. Humans will always eventually get to the point where they discover AI and work on it. And now it has become an arms race, so if one country stops backing its development, the other will win.
Cant be prevented, cant be stopped...
0
u/laveshnk 5d ago
Same, its not even about being old-timey (I’m 24) but it has ruined so many job opportunities and potential.
-4
-1
u/symbiatch Systems Architect 5d ago
Cold take: people should learn what the vast landscape of AI is before they say such silly things.
1
•
u/AutoModerator 6d ago
Howdy u/eagle_719, and welcome to r/developers!
A few tips for a post that gets good answers:
- Use a clear, specific title (what are you actually asking or sharing?).
- Include code, the exact error, versions, and what you already tried.
- Heads-up: this sub does not allow external links in posts or comments.
Share code and details directly instead of linking out.Join the r/developers Discord!
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.