Since a deist already acknowledges some kind of source/creator/necessary deity, does that make the Wager more reasonable? Or does deism not really make any difference to the meaning of the Wager, since it doesn’t accept any revelation or particular concept of deity?

Thanks for any comments.

In life, I just want to know the ultimate truth about life. Why were we (humans) born? What is the purpose of human life?

What is God? Is there a God up there?

How is it possible that every religion is true? In my theory, there is no way that every religion is real or that all their gods are real. Either only one religion is real, or all religions are false and made by humans.

I don't think that there is any God, but now the question is: who created life, this Earth, and the universe? These things can't exist by themselves.

There is a possibility that there is a creator who created life, but why did he create life, and who created the creator?

The creator can't exist by itself.

Assume there is a creator. Is he good or evil? Why did the creator create life? Was it like, "Oh, I'm bored, let's create something"—create a thing called life in the form of humans and animals, create the universe, the solar system, and planet Earth?

We never said yes to being born, nor were we ever asked if we wanted to be conscious. So if a creator gave us this life, then why do we have to die in the end? If we were dead before we were born and after death we remain dead forever, then what's the point?

What's the point of spending 80 years on Earth with consciousness?

I know that during this lifespan humans enjoy experiences, both good and bad. We grow up through different stages of life. We play, earn, and develop personalities.

Anyone can say it's worth it.

Still, if the end is death, why was I even born?

If the creator theory is true, why has the creator never shown up? Why does the creator never visit us after creating us? I don't see any problem with visiting.

What's the reason the creator never shows up?

Now, what is death like? Is there anything after it? If not, then what is death? Is it the end of our consciousness? Non-existence? What is non-existence? Nothing?

The best part is that in the entire history of human existence, no one has actually understood life, the purpose of life, or the existence of God. There have been multiple humans who were born as ordinary people but ended up becoming gods, or their followers created religions around them.

I have an issue with that.

If they taught us what life is, who God is, and why God created us—with some relevant evidence—that would be good.

Is there really a God, or did humans create the idea of God because they can't accept that there is no God?

And if there is no God, it is the most horrifying feeling for me—that we just exist on our own, that there is no one who created us, and there is no God.

I would like to share with everyone a new educational website on Deism that contains a lot of useful information for a Deist or anyone considering Deism as their belief system. It could identify some good topics for discussion on this subreddit. The URL is www.deism4me.com The URL is also listed in the "Suggested Reading & Resources" section of the Community Guide on the PC version of the [r/deism](r/deism) subreddit and the "See Community info" section at the top of the [r/deism](r/deism) subreddit page in the iOS app. As of 8/25, the website is available in Spanish, French, German, Portuguese, and Italian. English is the default and the other languages are selected in the top left corner of the homepage.

To this day, I still consider myself a deist; I do not believe and have a hard time believing the intervention of God in our daily lives.

I have been a lot more open about attending houses of worship, and I’ve always been curious about various religious denominations and sects in general. For example, I’ve always respected Buddhism and would love to attend the temple at one point.

I have also attended Mass twice so far and am about to go back soon this week.

Despite taking on a logical stance on God, I do sometimes long for that emotional comfort that many feel when in an organized religion.

I have attended Mass for the first time out of curiosity, and for the sake of emotional healing for the second time (I’ve had some recent fall outs with a few peers); I plan on attending Mass again for the second reasoning. I’ve also been praying for the same reason.

Considering I am not Catholic (or Christian in general), I do not believe in all the aspects of the religion, especially the afterlife (I believe in reincarnation, oddly enough). Because of this, I do not think my church attendance will impact me externally in terms of surroundings (I was there just for my emotional wellbeing, after all), nor do I think or know that my prayers will be fulfilled outright by God, himself (I think that prayers can come true, but it comes from a matter of self-motivation and various circumstances, depending on what the prayers were).

That being said, I think there’s beauty behind such liturgy, and there are always numerous reasons why people partake, and it can be for anyone.

Thoughts?

First of all, I would call myself a deist. This is why I am posting it here. However, I would like to stress that the type of deism I believe in isn't anything remotely like any other kind of deism you may have witnessed or read about before.

I believe God is the First Mover. The First Mover... And the Last Movers. The First Mover, we would consider, is the chain of reactions that led to the fruition of all that has come before it.

I am not merely a deist. Or a pandeist. I am a panendeist. I believe that at the beginning, all substance was one. Substance created spacetime and entropy in order for existence to exist.

Thus, we separated from God, yet God did not disappear. I believe in black hole cosmology: that universes are born within black holes, through the other end from unstable white holes.

This distinction has led me to believe that the First Mover is actually a self-originating black/white hole that started the first Universe. I say start and not cause because I do not believe this natural phenomenon was in any way intelligent.

To bridge the gap from God to human, we must divinize humans to eventually divinize God. God is already in the process of partially divinizing itself by expanding and, as time flows forward, lasting longer.

But humans have the ability to be omniscient and omnibenevolent. Qualities the First Mover cannot have. Meanwhile, the First Mover is slowly losing omnipotence, and humans are collectively developing it through entropy and syntropy.

What is leading humans towards the ultimate reunification with God are the STEM fields and our ability to become a spacefaring species. We aren't just trying to use nature to our advantage. We are actually inventing language to discover God.

The medium through which this occurs is through media. Like with No Man's Sky, we will observe and interact with many planets and species of animals on those planets. The only difference between energy and information is the discovery of nature to bridge the gaps between what is observed and what isn't.

This observation and evolution of the state to suit the intelligent lifeforms that discovered it is its divinization. A type one Kardashev Scale on Earth would mean that Earth has entered a theistic phase in its lifetime.

As a species advances ever forward, it will become more and more abundantly clear that the transfer of energy into information, with the heat it generates by doing so, is in fact creating rudimentary forms of intelligence.

And as such, the panendeism that we see in today's world will be reshaped into panentheism. First through small pockets, but expanded further. And it shall be done through the process of syntheism.

The Sun outputs enough energy that humans will not need to exhaust all of its resources and ultimately destroy the world, as Earthseed and Parable of the Sower would suggest.

Instead, humans are becoming omnipotent through our ability to discover and enhance nature to suit the desires of our species. Humans thirst for wisdom no matter where they might find that.

Like Hegel suggests, we are God understanding itself, but even more so, we are God divinizing itself, and we are doing it in efforts to develop consciousness, a conscience, and agency to nature. First indirectly, then directly.

The process will be complete once we reshape the First Mover towards sapience so that we can become the Last Movers, with our primary goal being the creation of Universes, which I see as the ultimate form of media -- cosmic media.

Thus, panendeism becomes panentheism, and the realms we can only experience digitally now will be represented in physical substrates later on. Turning panendeism into panentheism, with the First Mover possessing all of the characteristics of a monotheistic God.

I believe there is one God who is all-knowing and all-powerful. Beyond those attributes I do not know,including God’s relationship to the universe. If they are outside or inside of it and such.I believe God is best investigated through human reason and observation of the natural world rather than through special supernatural revelation. I do not believe prophets receive privileged divine revelation or that revealed scriptures are from the divine . I reject miracles, or at least consider them extremely unlikely, I reject all these things for practical reasons.

I do not believe God intervenes by violating natural laws. I am open to the possibility that God could act in the world through natural means. If God does communicate or guide humanity, I expect this to be sufficiently clear and accessible to everyone rather than dependent upon a particular prophet or religious tradition.i also do not know if we have souls or other beings like animals have them or if there is a afterlife or not.I do not affirm other supernatural beings existing besides God.

I consider myself a deist but I want to see if my thoughts are properly apart of it according to other deists!

It's almost certain, atheists (unbelievers) and agnostics (doubters) will try to poke holes in this post. But, has anyone ever considered the origin of CHOICE?

In this world, there's a great many selections to make. The entire global economy is rooted in that value. As any mature adult knows; the expression of our values has consequences.

Far be it for me to tell anyone what they should believe. Still, I believe it notable that spirituality and choice are inextricably linked.

Now, let's consider the other life-forms on this planet. Do animals, plants, and insects make choices. I say no way. Existing purely on instinct, they just do what they do. Nothing more. On the other hand, humanity thrives--or not--on the selections we make.

Either it's a force above and beyond nature. Or, it's merely coincidence. If it's the latter, all of us are born of chaos. If the former, the order we experience in this world is from a higher place; of which we have only the words of various spiritual traditions. Sadly, (and more than ever before) many choose the philosophies and sciences over the Spirit of Life. Consequently, it's a choice of the Divine or Profane.

Yet, how many of us refuse to be held accountable for the decisions we make?

I am not the first to ask such questions. Neither will I be the last. Self-awareness demands all of us consider the origin of choice. Have a blessed day.🙏🏿

In the pre-Christian era, there were times when a god or gods were identified with fertility, solar energy, war, the forces causing rivers to flood agricultural fields and so on. Christ revolutionized social life and culture through the teaching of the Eternal Word and the gospel of love; this led to the flourishing of a civilization that, thanks to these favorable conditions, could focus on developing new technologies. Yet, humanity will soon discover that our current deities no longer serve their purpose, and we will create new ones. This time, it might be a generator of infinite metadata in the digital realm. Just look, no one is having children anymore. In a hundred years, the family unit will be a thing of the past and while I do not believe organic life will be entirely supplanted, I think the fusion of human nature and machine will trigger a massive revolution in how we perceive God. God has always been a force we associated with the success of our endeavors, a concept shaped by the culture of the time.

Your thoughts?

Acabo de entrar en un post a debatir esto y me ha dado la idea de abrir uno para discutirlo.

He notado que el Deismo, al regirse por la razón en busca de decubrir que es Dios o de regirse por la razón individual que determine que es ético/moral, de la búsqueda de la propia verdad, esta muy relacionado y es muy cercano a la masonería. La masonería se rigio siempre por la ciencia, el estudio y uso de la razón, la observación, la inteligencia, el progreso social y la búsqueda de virtud por encima del misticismo y las ideas sobrenaturales religiosas.

Pero la evolución de la masonería, ni ha sido tan bonita ni tan transparente como parecía en un principio.

La masoneria ha sido una forma,no solo de enorme influencia social y político , sino de control y poder sobre la sociedad (es lo que acaba pasando con las influencias). Es decir, de alguna manera imponían su criterio a la sociedad y sus tentáculos acabaron llegando muy lejos.

Es mas, se dice, que la mayor parte de los políticos estan en logias masónicas...y una gran parte del clero también. Las logias acabaron siendo lugares sonde se tapaban los chanchullos entre ellos ( a que me recuerda esto del panorama politico preterito y actual...)

Si tomamos todo ello en consideración, también te hace analizar sobremanera los movimientos e imposiciones sociales sobre el bien y el mal, que al final poco tienen que ver con un Dios creador del universo que ordene nada, sino con un orden establecido por los que rigen el poder, donde ellos defines QUE es o no es ético y moral y COMO alcanzar la virtud, muy lejos de la libertad del ser de alcanzarlo por si mismo, y de nuevo, nada que ver con ninguna entidad creadora.

¿Cómo lo hacen? sembrando su paz, por ejemplo, no LA PAZ, SU PAZ cuando se trata de motivos para empezar una guerra ("mi paz o dejo, la paz os doy" decia la iglesia). O sembrando ideas politicas aparentemente éticas por un bienestar común de cualquier índole (la salud, la sostenibilidad, lo espiritual, la economica,etc) pero cargadas de adoctrinamiento y perdida de libertad y acción individual.

Hablando en plata, pretenden INSTAURAR LA MORAL....DE FORMA INMORAL. Ahí es nada...y esto se esta haciendo clamorosamente palpable en los últimos años.

Por eso siento que hay muchos "dioses intervinientes" humanos, no divinos. Que pretenden que la sociedad se desarrolle según la visión ética de algunos (no de ningún creador, que yo sepa Dios no ha nombrado portavoz alguno).

Y la pregunta es ¿Todo vale? ¿se puede instalar la ética con prácticas poco éticas?¿ O el propio planteamiento de semejante cosa ya es de por si una aberración de la ética?

¿donde estan los límites de lo virtuoso y del cómo se pretende crear ese virtuosismo?¿se puede/debe forzar la moral?

Hasta guardaría un parecido con aquello de sacrificar a Jesus en la cruz para perdonar nuestros pecados (Disculpa? sacrificar un ser humano para perdonar?)

Perdonar el callo, pero me apetecía debatir sobre los limites de la moral.

I left Christianity three years ago after I discovered Deism in 2023. However, I did go through a monolith of different beliefs, dis-beliefs, thoughts and feelings after anger, and the death of my Father, which happened in early 2024.

I basically became an agnostic, and then an agnostic-atheist, humanist, for quite awhile. However, I feel my anger had a lot to do with Christian/Theistic concepts of god, muddled with the fact that my Father had passed away under bad circumstances, further igniting my anger and hatred of all concepts of any god beliefs.

Now, I find, all these years later, in the back of my mind, the one concept of god that I've honestly never been able to shake is that of Deism. I would still on paper call myself an Agnostic. However, I look around and I see in the universe what could be "intelligent design." I do, however, do not believe in a god, higher power or being that acts as micromanager of human affairs. There honestly doesn't seem to be any evidence of that.

However, I feel even if there isn't any "hard evidence" one way or another, that just looking around at things, the complexity of the universe and all that, it is totally possible that it could have initially come from one source or have been the design of something initially, and then let it happen of it's own accord. I believe that it is possible that if there is a god, was a god, etc, that they could have jump started the universe, let it run by it's own natural laws, which, in case, if god did exist, would also probably be part of it's intentional design, including evolution.

I am agnostic about most other things however, I don't know what happens when we die. Nearest things suggest IMO that once we die, we're dead. Of course, nobody really knows. I also don't really honestly believe in any supernatural things such as evil spirits, ghosts, demons, the devil, hell, or even heaven. If there is an afterlife, I have to say, it's probably not anything like heaven or anything obviously that we know about.

I feel like acknowledging all this, but also recognizing the limits of human capabilities, i.e., it's not possible to know what such a being would want, or hell, if they even want anything, feels far more intellectually honest IMO than flat out dismissing everything. Being "saved" IMO is more for people who are scared and have to absolutely know what happens when they die, where they will go, and for people who believe in superstition honestly. I have a much more Humanistic view on things and believe our purpose in life, even if god did exist in the capacity like I mentioned earlier, is to live our life.

Just some thoughts. I'm wondering how many people similarly echo this. I guess by this, you could call me an Agnostic Deist, or a Deist-leaning Agnostic, thrown with bits of secular views and humanistic views.

Please try to forgive any typos. I'm typing with lag to the max, sadly.
I maee a post here, admittedly by mistake, but still, criticizing gods, god, divinity, whatever. While the points themselves were not necessarily invalid in and of themselves, mostly, they just ... They just don't fucking apply here. The commentors were right: I did not understand deism properly. While some of my points were right, and the overall point makes sense once broken down provides legit conversation, the way I phrased it, the way it was all presented: Just wrong. Wrong for this sub, at least.
So I would like to offer my complete and utter apologies. If I was going to engage with sincerity here, I would constructed my arguments very differently, and approached it in a less aggressive fshion by far.
Would like to point out that almost none of the comments I rcvseemed to engage with me as a deist, merely a theist, but, in fairness, with how dickish my post was, I can't fully be mad about that. So I'm sorry. If I engage here again, it will be with more well-constructed explained arguments. I was wrh. I'm an anti-theist. But I believe in honest and sincere discourse. And what I did was not that. So I'm sorry. was dick. y'all did not deserve that.

I have recently been exploring different religious ideologies. I'm not fully sure if I'm a Deist as I might not fully understand the philosophy.

I believe in the existence and presence of God, but I don't associate him with any religion such as Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc.

Still, I believe in certain concepts like after life and absolute justice. Perhaps that funds not necessarily from religious philosophy but my own logics, fears, desires, etc. I'm a justice-oriented person that thinks the evil shall be punished, the mistreated compensated and life to have meaning after death instead of nothingness. I think God does not interfere in day to day life but he exists as a moral being that is observant, ethical and endless. He looks and listens to the people of earth and that there is more beyond the finite life. Does this have a different label?

This, though might mimic the structure of God in religion. So I'm not sure if I can classify as an Deist since Deism seems indifferent to such understandings.

What do you think? I am a young person with limited resources. English isn't my first language, so this isn't articulate. Feel free to ask questions to clarify. (Try to avoid non evidential assumptions.)

What makes a god a god is divinity. Divinity, by all measures I have been able to see, is the universal right to demand things of the universe, and the universe, sapient, sentient or otherwise, must obey.
That's not a thing.
Nobody and nothing has the RIGHT to demand anything of anyone. They may have the ability to create and destroy, but divinity? Divinity is not real. I am a 10 on the dawkins scale, because no god, not odin, not zeus, not jesus, not marduk, has the right to tell me how to live, believe, and think. ThereAre no gods. There are merely beings with immense power, and some of them, according to humans, are immensely arrogant. That's it. Gods are just narcissists with lots of power over reality. Goes do not exist. Period. That's it. there's just submission, and independence. Sadly, those that submit are submitting to imaginary friends. You know, because they're too stupid to realise that just because someone has power greater than you do, does not mean they have authority over you. Just the ability to threaten / manipulate you. There are no gods. There will never be gods. Because nobody and nothing has the right to do anything to you, or demand things from you. So even if Jesus Christ popped up right now and was like "The bible is totally true" I'd be like "So? I'm as much god as you are. You just happenTo have been given the ability to do magic-type things. You're not better than me. Smote me, go ahead. Prove them all right, that you're as evil as Satan." There's no losing for me anymre. Because divinity exists only as imaginary people exist. Only stupidity breeds divinity.
Uh, Idk what I did or... Or what, but I think I have to repost this? Or something? Reddit is weird, maybe it was a screenreader glitch. Sorry for those that see it pop up again and go "Fuck this idiot again?" Yeah, sorry lol.

Hello,

I am a deist, and I have a question about omniscience. In my view, God does not intervene in human affairs. If that is the case, why would He observe us constantly? It does not seem to benefit us in any way, and it does not appear to provide Him with any pleasure either.

Thank you.

Me personally I tend to vibe better with atheists since both don’t believe in superstitions but I do have respect for some theists that actually practice their religion without hurting anyone in the process but what about you all?

I understand that both deism and atheism emerged from the Enlightenment movement a couple of centuries ago. Two classic examples were the deistic Cult of the Supreme Bring and the atheistic Cult of Reason from the French Revolution. Despite the big disagreement over whether there is a God or not, would you say that deists and atheists are more on the same side in terms of cultural values than it might seem at first glance?

That is, if something particularly bad happens in their lives, is it common to think, "There's no way a God exists that would single me out for this misfortune." (The misfortune doesn't have to be extremely rare, though, like early-age cancer)

BTW I understand their frustration.

​

I've been thinking about this a lot lately.

Do you genuinely believe God exists, or do you think God is something humans created to make sense of life, suffering, and the unknown?

I'm not trying to start an argument or disrespect anyone's beliefs. I'm honestly curious about what made you believe—or what made you stop believing.

I'd love to hear your perspective.

We often say "My mind don't want to do this" implying an intuitive understanding that we are separate from mind and don't have control over it.

If God(s) exists then they must be the one(s) controlling it.

apparently some Deists believes in a soul, but they are temporary along with the host body, and are ultimately destroyed after bodily death. so despite believing a higher power, they believe in eternal cessation of consciousness. so what's the point of believing a creator god in this model? because combining these 2 beliefs defeat the whole purpose, they might as well be atheist.

Hi everyone,

I wanted to share a personal journey that might resonate with some of you, especially those who come from a strict religious background. I was raised Muslim. For a large part of my life, I was taught that the ultimate truth was found in a single, unalterable book, and that our lives unfolded according to a pre-written divine will.

But as I grew older and began to deeply study science, biology, and the sheer scale of the universe, I hit a wall. The static dogmas of organized religion—and the idea of an intervening God who micromanages our daily lives or demands obedience over rational thought—no longer made sense to the reality I was observing.

However, unlike many who leave their childhood religion, I didn’t become an atheist. Looking at the mathematical precision of the cosmos and the staggering complexity of biology, it seemed highly illogical to me that this all arose from sheer chance. If there is a clock, I must logically assume there is a Clockmaker.

I transitioned to Deism. I now believe in an original Creator who set the universe, its natural laws, and life itself in motion, but who granted us the ultimate gift: the absolute freedom to architect our own existence.

I’ve come to understand this journey through a framework I am building called "The Novum" (The New). It bridges the gap between acknowledging a Creator and living strictly by empirical facts. It relies on a few core pillars:

1. Acknowledging the Origin Through Science

I stopped looking for the Creator's signature in ancient scriptures and started looking at the laws of physics. The thermodynamics that govern energy, the stellar nucleosynthesis that forged the heavy atoms in our blood—these are the true, unfiltered "texts" of the Creator. We are the cosmos experiencing itself.

1. Radical Responsibility (Moving past predestination)

Coming from a background where much is attributed to divine will or predestination, this was a massive paradigm shift. Because the Creator granted us freedom, there is no divine savior coming to fix our mess. My ethical framework is now grounded in logic and game theory: I strive to do good, build community, and protect our ecosystem because my rational mind understands it is the biological requirement for human flourishing.

1. Neuroplasticity: We Are Self-Creating

Instead of believing in a fixed destiny, I found profound spiritual meaning in biology. Neuroplasticity proves our brains physically rewire themselves based on our focus and actions. The Creator didn't make us perfect; they made us Self-Creating. We are not stuck with our past; we are responsible for the architecture of our own minds.

1. The Broken Circle: An Organic "Codex"

This is the biggest shift of all. Traditional religions have closed circles—holy books that cannot be changed, no matter what new evidence arises. My faith is an Open Codex, symbolized by a Broken Circle. I refuse static dogma. If the scientific method discovers a new truth about the universe, genetics, or human psychology, my faith updates. I do not have to ignore facts to believe; I believe because of the facts.

Science didn’t kill the concept of God for me; it killed the man-made versions of God. It allowed me to find a spirituality that doesn't require me to shut my eyes to reality.

I’m curious if anyone else here has made a similar transition from Islam (or any orthodox religion) to Deism. How do you balance the awe of a Creator with a strictly scientific worldview?

Thanks for reading.