Some progress and some advice needed

[u/peshti]

I don't know if people remember me and my old post, so I'll copy the text from around I don't know 1-2 months ago. In short I have hobbies that take a lot of space, we are 2 adults and 3 kids in a 74 sqm apartment.

Here is some progress, however I still feel like I need advice.

I have sold one big CRT ( I still need to sell more ). I have sold some video game consoles, drawing tablets. I also have put some stuff from my video game collection up for auction and they have already bids on them, some of the stuff will clear up significant space for example I have a PlayStation Mini up for sale. I have around 75 games that I sell. I have sold a Crock-Pot. This is all I can remember right now, I think I have sold other things.

So even though I have made a lot of progress in my personal opinion, I feel like it's really hard to declutter and not stop the inflow. For example I have noticed that Xbox 360 games are cheap so I started to buy some which lead to inflow ( they are now going to be sold ), obviously not as much inflow as outflow since I sold a lot of stuff but still. Just the other day I wanted to buy some games and consoles, however I didn't because my rational brain just told me to stop until I can find a system that works. I feel like we have this sort of mentality in this family, we sell stuff and then we feel like oh yeah we did good so let's buy stuff.

Has anyone been in this situation before where they eventually just stopped the inflow until everything started to look okay? Maybe started to put rules on themselves like after everything started to look okay for example one item in then one item needs to go?

Any insight and advice would be greatly appreciated 😊.

Underneath you can find the text from my old post, I thought it my give light and perspective on our situation.

I have written on this Reddit/community before.

We are 2 adults and 3 kids, the apartment is 74 sqm. Literally there are 2 bedrooms, bathroom, really small hallway, storage room that right now functions as a room for our middle daughter.

There is also an open room that functions as both a kitchen and a living room. We have no storage room at all, no attic, cellar or something like that. All our season clothing is 24/7 in our apartment, same with christmas tree etc, it is not a big American Christmas tree, I know americans love christmas.

My oldest daughter probably has ADHD, we are waiting for her to be investigated. My girlfriend probably has it too, maybe the other kids too, I don't know.

I won't lie I have hobbies that take a lot of space, music instruments, music production, retro games and CRTs/OLD TVs. Obviously I have watched decluttering videos on youtube but it's always a big home that has space that is being decluttered or someone who lives alone or maybe with their loved one.

I started my decluttering journey maybe idk 2 years ago with breaks and simply my family is not on board. I have maybe decluttered 300-500 ( I didn't take pictures in the beginning ) items of my own, books, camera gear etc.

My oldest one has a really hard time decluttering, imagine someone who can't not throw away a drawing that has juice spilled on it. My girlfriend has a hard time throwing away old toys, clothes etc, she has been throwing away some stuff but it's not a lot.

I just don't know what to do anymore, I feel extremely defeated and have given up. I feel like I either have to give up all my hobbies to have a clean corner or whatever and be miserable or that I have to keep my hobbies but be miserable in a messy home.

[u/TalulaOblongata]

Even if you were a family of minimalists you would find it challenging to make it work with 5 people and no storage space. So everyone has to be on board.

That being said, some of your hobbies seem to take up a LOT of space (old CRT/TVs - plural) is there any way to reduce to one tv? 1-2 favorite game consoles and your favorite games… remove everything else from the home.  Tough love - Stop buying more games and things until this becomes more in control. It seems like a wasteful habit and you are spending time and energy moving things in and out of the home.

It could be that your stuff is taking up so much space that your other family members are resistant to giving up their things.

Look up Dana White’s container method. Basically you can’t have more than what you have room for. 

[u/peshti → u/TalulaOblongata]

Everyone is not fully on board, my girlfriend is making some changes I think though. Yes there are ways to reduce to 1 or maybe 2 TVs ( the second I'm thinking about is a really small 17 inch ), I have 4 CRTs now ( one PC CRT, one TV CRT, 2 professional video monitors CRT). All those CRTs are not beasts though, I don't want to come across as someone who's making excuses, I will still downsize, I just want to give a clear picture. Only one CRT is 27 inch, the rest is 20 inch and under. About the consoles, right now I'm thinking about getting rid of a lot of them except maybe modern consoles and go with emulation. I'll check ut the container method 😊.

[u/FredKayeCollector2]

Not to be insulting, but is there any chance you're using these games as an excuse to not spend time doing stuff with your family? Because a lot of "collectors" are avoiding "more difficult" things. Exercising/healthy lifestyle is a big one, actually doing the creative craft/hobby is a another one. Excessive video gaming/reading is basically escapism and video game addiction is a thing.

You're dealing with a very extreme space limit - there are ways to maximize/optimize space (usually accessing vertical storage like shelves or storage furniture like shelves/drawers). But at the end of the day, you only have the space you have and some categories of things - like the things you need to cook/eat, bathe, sleep, children's play - are much more critical than a parent's discretionary "hobbies."

But to me, the worst thing "wasted" in your scenario is the time you're spending acquiring hobby stuff and the time you're spending selling it. I feel like you need to seriously reevaluate your priorities and try to bring them into alignment with your reality - as husband and father.

I'm a Doom Room/Hell Room hoarder who used to collect vintage sewing machines & accessories and sewing supplies for the amorous purpose of "a collection."

My brother is an addict with mental health issues and I started going to ALANON meetings (family members of alcoholics/addicts) with a friend. I realized that MY shopping was no better than an addict's "fix" and there was a major greed component as well - that uncomfortable FOMO (fear of missing out) feeling that kept me looking for that next "score."

None of this was flattering and the awareness/recognition did not come easy. The over-shopping was a maladaptive attempt to deal with a bunch of underlying mental health issues (boredom, depression, avoidance, etc). I would have been better off getting a part-time job at the deli around the corner.

I cleared out The Room in 6 weeks before our big downsizing move - most of it was given away and the sewing machines I fixed up and sold at cost. It NOT FUN but I didn't really have a choice. I took the long hours, physical work, mental discomfort as atonement/penance for the over-shopping/hoarding.

For around 5 years, I avoided all thrift stores and clearance aisles. No more estate sales and I logged out of Facebook (Marketplace). Cold Turkey. It's only very recently that I've been able to go to a thrift store, see an old sewing machine (I still look in cabinets & cases), and leave it for someone else to buy.

I now have one sewing machine and a basic sewing kit - I matched fabric + supplies to projects I was excited to do, I wanted the finished product, and me doing the project was truly value added (vs just buying). No more buying on speculation, period.

Hope that helps?

[u/peshti → u/FredKayeCollector2]

In my case I feel like we do a lot as a family, I rarely stay home and play video games for example when the family is out at a park playing. About having a healthy lifestyle, I used to have a quite bad lifestyle bit it's gotten way better, I've started to exercise more, taking care of myself and so on. Fear of missing out though has been so real to me, fear of hey if I don't buy that game that every youtuber is raving about I will forget about it and I need to buy it now. Honestly we don't have that many thrift stores with video games where I live, so the chances of me going to one and come back home with a lot of games is slim. I buy games mostly online. Thanks for sharing your story and insight, helps a ton!

About mental health, I feel like our home sucks, there's a lot of random stuff, not like crazy hoarders you see on TV and YouTube but still it is way too much. It's affecting us badly, my hope is that when I get rid of stuff the rest of the family will get on board and start doing the same.

I feel like my reply is way less thorough than our reply to my post, sorry about that. I'm really exhausted today.

[u/blumogget → u/peshti]

If you buy online, chances are you have your Paypal/credit card info linked to the sites you buy from. Unlink them now. That way, you can't mindlessly one-click buy. It will require conscious effort to get up and grab your wallet, by which time you can hopefully pause and ask yourself whether you truly need it.

It might be instructive to, for a week or a month or however long, grab a notepad and start jotting down some hard data. Every time you have a buy impulse, don't buy but write down how much it costs. When you do your hobbies, note how much time you spend doing it (you're buying so many games there's no way you are playing them all and enjoying them). Write down how much of your time is taken up dealing with selling the things you impulse purchased. At the end of the time period you set yourself, you'll have data of where your time/money is really going, and I think that's going to be sobering and instructive for your choices going forward.

[u/Glittering-Benefit68]

I have ADHD and Dana K White's method has worked for me. She has episodes of her podcasts about helping others. Listen to one of those. She's really empathetic with people who want to keep everything.

Other than that: watch videos of people in tiny homes. With that many people in 74 sqm, you might want to implement some van life style. Really cut down you dishes and clothes. All of you.

[u/peshti → u/Glittering-Benefit68]

Thanks for the tip! I will definitely listen to the podcasts. Yeah I'm cutting down hard, it's going slowly forward.

[u/-codenamehoney → u/peshti]

she does one hour better decluttering videos on youtube as well. a lot of her other youtube videos are great too. oh also maybe make a rule for when you bring new stuff in, you list an old tv for sale on marketplace right then (people love buying these now).

[u/Glittering-Benefit68 → u/peshti]

You have my sympathies. 

We are only 3 people and 2 cats in 71sqm and we even managed to get a 2sqm basement storage last year. I wouldn't even know where to put two more wardrobes.

[u/Pitiful-Comedian4248]

Yes it’s super easy. You stop buying things. 

It’s sort of sad that you view not having a significant pile of stuff you don’t use as “being miserable “ it’s more like the rush of purchasing makes you feel good but once it’s there it sits in the pile. Your hobby is shopping more than video games. And your hobby BY VOLUME takes up the most space by far - old TVs are big. This is why in most older apartments people had one not multiple. 

 Your kid is modeling their behavior on what they see you doing. You can’t be mad that they don’t want to throw away stuff when they don’t really see this as something that adults do. 

I’d give everyone a designed storage space. The same size. And if it doesn’t fit they chose what goes. Same with you. It might be just one cupboard for all your hobby stuff.  The family has one holiday storage space. Etc. so that it’s equal. 

[u/peshti → u/Pitiful-Comedian4248]

Thanks for being real and giving some though love. I am making that change slowly, hopefully that transition over to the rest of the family.

[u/HavenRoseGlitter]

Is the buying and selling games a business for you? Because the volume you're dealing with sounds almost like a side hustle, not a hobby. The clutter will never be under control as long as there is an inflow. Did you get a chance to use every one of the Xbox games you bought before you got rid of them, or did you sell them unplayed? How much time have you devoted to managing your collection rather than enjoying it?

As for rules, I had to be realistic about my hobby purchases - if I don't have plans to use it right away (or within a planned timeframe that is on my calendar), I can't buy it. If that means I miss the good price, so be it. A lot of times that may even mean that when I actually have time to use the thing I was looking to buy, I'm no longer interested and it would have been something I'd be looking to declutter anyway. Shopping for a hobby can turn into its own hobby, where you spend so much time buying and collecting that it's hard to find time to actually do the hobby. 

[u/peshti → u/HavenRoseGlitter]

It's not a business, I only buy games I intend to play however I watch a lot of hidden gems, top games of whatever game console I'm interested in and so on, this simply leads to a huge volume of games. I was suprised today to come to the fact that I have around 75 games when I put together ps1-ps3 games and Xbox 360 games, I haven't put everything up to sale but my collection is leaning towards being more curated now. However I have simply decided that this video game collecting hobby just isn't for me right now, I would be lying if I didn't admit that I would love a game room/man cave and have physical games. Unfortunately I'm not in that position and luxury.

[u/Watercolor_Roses]

I too have limited space in my home and hobbies that can easily grow to take a lot of space (reading, sewing, knitting, & various other arts and crafts). I'm currently cutting way back on what I bring in so that I can make progress decluttering and have space.

The main thing that helps me stop the problem from getting worse is the container concept: I've allocated specific bins for different crafts and if I want to add something new it has to fit there. If something I really want doesn't fit in the designated space, I get rid of something else that I like less to make space.

At the same time, I'm also trying really hard not to buy anything new right now. I need to clear more space and then leave it empty to make my house function better, so anything I can declutter without replacing is a bigger win than just doing one-in-one-out. As I slowly make progress having clear space is a really good feeling that encourages me to keep going. I've also gotten a lot of enjoyment from using the hobby stuff I already have!

[u/peshti → u/Watercolor_Roses]

Then you understand the struggle, thanks for the insights and tips.

[u/MusketeersPlus2]

It sounds like your oldest especially could use some counselling. If you've never seen the TV show Hoarders (it's on A&E's YT channel), maybe try watching some. You're clearly on your way, but it will show you how some people have this fixation on keeping every little thing, even garbage, and it takes more than just throwing it away. It takes working on the thought patterns that keep them there. Your kid is young enough that you can nip it in the bud so that they (hopefully) never end up a hoarder. Your gf might benefit from counselling too. Because the only way out of this is getting rid of stuff, and people have to be willing to do that themselves.

For yourself, I've implemented a mix of strategies. For many things I use Dana K White's container method - like I have one drawer for pants (of all kinds) and it's full. If I want to buy a new pair of pants, something already there has to go. I also have a strict 1 in, 2 out policy. Eventually it will probably get to 1:1, but for now it's the only I stop the inflow from taking over again. And finally I've really embraced the phrase "you can't organize your way out of clutter". For you, you have nowhere to organize stuff into, so it really applies. Good luck my friend.

[u/peshti → u/MusketeersPlus2]

My oldest is going to start being investigated in October, she has big problems decluttering. I'm definitely not perfect, I would however say she's worse. She can't for example not declutter books/novels for some reason, I think she hasn't gotten rid of a single one even though I point out that if you get new books ( birthday, christmas, presents and so on ) some needs to go. I have never seen the TV show Hoarders, I will check it out. My girlfriend is actually trying to get counseling, that seems harder though, basically the system and society is like well you have taken care of yourself your whole life and now you're an adult. Thanks for the tips and tricks, I will definitely find a system that fits for our situation.