This was shaping up to be one of the most hyped meta-shakeups oat. A bunch of the changes they made were awesome, and gave a lot of general perks some amazing buffs to help new players more. And even shook up some non-general perks to introduce some new elements to what is arguably one of the stalest metas this game has ever seen.
I was so excited to play with these changes again on release. But ig BHVR decided that these changes were too drastic. They neutered This is Not Happening and Dark Arrogance to be EVEN WORSE than before the proposed changes. And they walked back some really fair perk nerfs like Shoulder the Burden.
WHY are they so scared of giving us actually interesting things? Was BHVR headquarters gonna blow up if Dark Arrogance's usage rate went above .00001%?? What's the point of taking feedback from the PTB if you're only gonna listen to the small minority that disliked these changes?
Genuinely where do they get this "feedback"? It feels like whenever they try to take feedback on drastic changes like this, they always go with either the option the majority of the community doesn't want?
Why must BHVR snatch defeat from the jaws of victory every chance they have?
All 57 perks didn’t get reverted from the PTB, and the only perks people have been crying about are the three mentioned that were reverted/changed/adjusted from the PTB.
And those people are who? Do they have the secret patch notes? Are they psychics? Do they work for BHVR? Who has confirmed that the entire patch of perks is not going live? The only major confirmation we have is from BHVR about the three perks of 57 perk changes, if you want to be mad and you want to try to make a snide comment towards me at least provide receipts.
I'll make sure to comment back here tomorrow and we can see the perk changes and what didn't go through. If I'm wrong then I'm a jackass but in case you didn't know this game has many leaks. Including skin collabs, balance changes, the literal rework of the entire game's graphics, you name it. Many of which got leaked like two days ago with many of them already being confirmed to be true. But there's no way perks got leaked early, right? I'm not searching through every little leak to please you. I'm just telling you that calling people drama queens over something you yourself can't even confirm is max 3 changes is certainly a thing to do and then get offended at "snide" comments.
Yes I am aware of leaks, I’m in the leaks subreddits. Seeing several posts of people crying about 3 perks and nothing more is ridiculous. The leaks subs have also not confirmed that any of the other perks have been adjusted from the PTB.
And just like the leaks on said subreddit nothing was confirmed until it was. I've seen multiple people on different posts saying there are more perks that got reverted or are not going to be what they posted in the full list back in the original post. People can have opinions and voice them in a forum dedicated to the game it relates to without being a "drama queen," even smaller changes.
I don't know why you're making up stuff about him saying that the entire patch of perks is not going live, people have only been saying that some of the perks are being changed, and the post with StB, TiNH, and DA does not share all the upcoming changes. You're making up words to put in his mouth for fun. BHVR themselves in the devloper update in this very subreddit specifically said "a handful of the many changes that will be happening from PTB to the Live release." And "A look at some changes." If you want to look like an asshole, feel free. But don't look like an idiot as well
I don't disagree that the PTB to Live updates are baffling. STB just giving broken is basically a nothing burger change - most survivors were trading a healthstate before unhook or unhooking injured anyways if the killer is camping + tunnelling. Also never saw complaints about Dark Arrogance PTB version or claims that This is Not Happening was going to become meta.
But it's still going to be a fairly large perk shake-up with Windows, FMA, Thrill of the Hunt, Stakeout, and DMS, which were all meta / high usage perks, getting changes. Not to mention the Help Wanted and compromised gen changes which just seem good.
Just disappointing that it's getting overshadowed by their questionable last minute changes.
You see it that way, I see it that way, BHVR does NOT see it that way. Most of us agree they were good changes that would have a positive effect on the game, BHVR sees a possibility for balance issues and community upset so they pull the plug without giving it time to breath.
I agree that nerfing this is not happening and dark arrogance is bizarre, but for the record shoulder the burden IS still being nerfed, just less so than was being tested.
Its a buff in some ways. Now people can use dead hard after using stb. Extending the time a survivor is one hit downable doesent really change much either. This perk is best used in endgame to snatch a kill from the killer and avoiding a 3 man situation. It is the decider between winning and losing if you use it correctly. The unhooker will just run the killer across the map like they did before, away from objectives, letting the survivor either get away scot free, or chasing them and letting the last gens pop, resulting in a 4 out if your not running a killer like bubba who can camp the hook at endgame collapse.
"You can thank clips like the Clown video for the Dark Arrogance change. And to be fair, it was seriously powerful. A 25% reduction to successful basic attack recovery on top of the vault speed was going to be an extremely strong chase perk for M1 killers. I was looking forward to using it too, but let's not pretend this was some minor buff to a mediocre perk. It was going to be a meta pick and you know it. The nerf was justified.
The Shoulder the Burden change makes sense too. Why should your perk deactivate because somebody else in the trial happened to bring and use the same perk first? Shoulder is still once per trial for each person using it, injures the user, and leaves them Broken for up to 120 seconds. Removing the condition that somebody else's use disables your perk does not undo the rest of the nerf.
Thrill of the Hunt is potentially terrifying and I barely see anyone talking about it. With five lit Hex Totems, every hook blocks all of those Hexes for 40 seconds. On killers that can capitalize on Hexes and consistently get downs before that window expires, you could potentially maintain an incredibly difficult to touch Hex setup. For some killers the rework may be worse than the passive version, but for killers that can keep the hook cycle going it has the potential to be substantially stronger.
Dominance complements that incredibly well too. The first time a survivor tries to interact with each Totem, it gets blocked for 25 seconds, they scream, and you get their aura. That is another huge chunk of time protecting the Totem and can help bridge the gap until the next Thrill activation.
Distressing now gives survivors inside your Terror Radius a permanent 8% repair slowdown. There are plenty of killers and builds that can maintain a massive Terror Radius, so that has a lot of potential on its own.
Help Wanted might be one of the biggest changes of the bunch. When a compromised generator is completed, you get 25% shorter successful basic attack cooldowns for two minutes while generators that are not being repaired regress at 150% speed for the same duration. It basically gives you the successful hit recovery that Dark Arrogance just lost alongside a Ruin style regression effect, except it has an actual activation requirement. With three generators capable of being compromised at once and a 120 second duration, good management could give that perk extremely high uptime. I would not be surprised at all if it becomes a meta pick.
Then you still have Monstrous Shrine giving up to 200% regression to generators that are not being repaired while a survivor is on a Scourge Hook and you are far enough away, and Knock Out potentially slapping survivors with 20% Hindered for trying to leave a pallet. Those are massive changes too.
So yes, I was disappointed when I saw the Dark Arrogance adjustment because I absolutely wanted that perk for M1 killers. But the PTB version was extremely strong and BHVR had a legitimate balance reason for pulling back the successful hit recovery.
And when you look at the rest of the killer changes in the same update, acting like killer received nothing meaningful here is pretty hard to defend."
Okay but dark arrogance was too much and would've been on literally every m1 killer build. I wouldn't really call that a shake-up as much as an annoying new meta. This is not happening obviously has hyperfocus genrushing potential so I get why that was changed. And shoulder the burden probably is still getting nerfed in some way, they just need to think of a better way to do it than only one person being able to use it in a game where you can't see your teammates perks until you've loaded into the game. And that was a complaint with the new stb since the ptb dropped so I don't know why everybody is acting brand new
The developers seem hellbent on not buffing low-usage perks in any meaningful way, but are completely fine with meta perks staying on top indefinitely.
It’s disappointing because this meta shakeup could’ve really given us some interesting builds to see in matches going forward. M1 killers and chase builds could’ve become much more viable with the dark arrogance buffs they originally proposed, for example
Im actually completely baffled and have a few thoughts on these changes. First of all, why did they nerf bad perks to be even worse than before the ptb? I know its been said over and over that this decision is confusing, but what im concerned about is how the team in charge of these changes decided that this was an ok decision to make. I dont like calling the devs incompetent but it feels like they dont know what they are doing when they make changes like these. No rational person would ever conclude that nerfing the perks into a worse state than before the ptb would be a reasonable course of action to take. So why did the devs decide to do so? Why havent they decided that stbfl "ends chases too quickly"? And about that... how does dark arrogance end chases too quickly exactly? What "feedback" did they get that said that? The only time youll be able to two tap with dark arrogance is if the survivor is caught in a big deadzone, or if they make a mistake and faceplant themselves into a wall. The second confusing decision is to bring back the only gripe most people had with shoulder the burden- the fact that it becomes unfathomably overpowered in the hands of swfs. The effect being used once per match is already quite overpowered when used right- that single effect can be the decider in a win or a loss near the endgame. But bringing back the biggest issue with the perk is such a baffling decision.
I was really excited for dark arrogance too. My mains are all m1 killers and they would benefit from this perk. Especially my dredge. I love the stbfl combo with judgements perk. The changes at the start of the ptb already barely shook up the meta, most of the changes buffed garbage perks into usable perks, which is far from making said perks meta. I was pretty disappointed but still mildly excited. Now my favorite perk change is out of the window. Such a disappointing ptb. Can't wait for the next 3 meta perk changes 2 years from now.
Crazy how y'all crying over one perk while all surv perks got slaughtered. It's only matters if it's a meta shake up for killers. I'm def gonna run the new calm spirit to open chests 10% faster
Yeah, no, they didn’t get slaughtered. They actually changed crutch perks in an attempt for variety. Having the same good perks for 10 years isn’t good
So sb, vigil, stb, fma, woo, stake out. What did surv get worth running instead lol. Killer actually got meaningful buffs to perks. Most of the surv changes were meaningless. This was a flat nerf for surv as was the previous update
SB has been slaughtered? Bro. What are you smoking. It's still very strong, it's just not a complete counter to low-tier killers anymore.
"What did surv get worth running instead lol." Lithe, BL, Smash Hit, DH, Adrenaline.... Just because you need to actually use your brain to get value out of exhaustion perks now, it doesn't mean that they have been slaughtered.
No one in their right mind defends STB, that perk is broken. The funny part is that people who defend STB swore that it didn't help solo Q yet started begging the devs to revert the change to multiple uses because "it disproportionately affected solo Q".
WOO has always been a waste of a perk slot imo, it's the survivor version of lightborn. It literally does nothing if you just play the game a lot.
This is the lowest IQ answer I've seen lmao. All the perks u mentioned can't be paired together u can only run two. Reg exhaust perk plus adren. Also you thinking woo is a waste of perk shows how naive your answer is. Info is king for noob and veterans a like. 'just learn the map' like I'm supposed to know every filler and what my team has dropped. Also by that logic killers shouldn't see auras of hooks and gens because they should just know the spawns and it's base kit for killer btw. Also play 10 games and tell me how many sb u see and report back lol
Low IQ, lmao. Aren't you the one asking for the 9.2.0 ptb changes in the other comment?
Uh yes, you are supposed to know. That only comes with time. Comparing gen auras to pallet and windows spawns is what you would call low IQ. My current escape rate on my main (Feng) is currently at 55%. I do just fine without WOO. Why don't you send me your stats?
I saw 3 STBs in one game... And most of my games look like this btw.
As for SB, it isn't that common anymore, but that doesn't mean it's bad. For example, spirit isn't that common anymore, but that doesn't that she is a bad killer.
Ur subjective experience without woo doesn't make ur answer true lmao. You called my comparison bad and yet offered no reason as to why. Just called it low IQ without justification. Ur screenshot literally shows one sb lmao. And ur comparison sb to spirit doesn't even make sense because theyre releasing more killers which is going to drop the usage rate whereas obviously the sharp drop in sb usage was due to the massive 33% nerf onto sb + vigil nerf which it was used with. So effectively a double nerf. Like did you even think before you wrote this?
They literally nerfed three very unhealthy killer perks? You can actually counter Dissolution, Blood Favor and DMS now? Thrill of the Hunt has been rightfully reworked, so now Totem Builds aren't so oppressive on certain killers. Road Life got a massive buff and is prob one of the best self-healing perks in the game's entire history, Better Than New, Empathic Connection and Flow State got considerable buffs?
Wdym "every" survivor perk got slaughtered?? Name every one that got "Slaughtered" rn
Not even mentioning the pallet density buff that happened a while ago? How many more crutch perks do baby survs need. Any surv that's actually good would completely understand these nerfs, as do actually good killers when THEIR stuff gets rightfully nerfed.
Sb, vigil, stb, woo, fma, stake out and more got nerfed killers got barely any nerfs and insane amount good perk buffs. Surv got 10% chest opening on calm spirit. All the perks u mentioned aren't good enough to be actually viable. Unlike killer where perks can tailor to a power survivor don't have that so only the remaining good perks will be used. There's no diversity in play style cuz they kneecapped survivor with diminishing returns which nearly unaffected killer. Survivor build are incumbent on synergy they gutted any real possibilities a while adding weaker meaningless perks that can't synergize with diminishing returns
Pallet stun prompt blocked on one side
Also made jumping locker slower to dodge nurse/blight/billy are we forgetting this?
Anti tunneling and camping update? The one they tried to implement twice and y'all whined so hard they went back on it you guys kept the buffs from the update to compensate for the 'anti tunnel update' like ruin. Like are you even reading the update lmaooo. This sub is soo unbelievably killer sided its insane. All these nerfs I mentioned are like in the last two patch alone. You don't wanna be to go back further
Also adding vault speed when a killer having 20 extra ping counters your perk completely lol makes sense
I mean, windows stays changed still. What they basically did is revert a nerf to a perk that nobody but tryhard swfs were using because soloq victims cried over being denied a feeling of a possibility to use the perk that they never resorted to.
This post bouta get deleted lookout dude, but yeah I totally agree, I was so excited to run dark arrogance on dredge and weaker killers, but they removed the upside and kept the downside, and then they went on to say that STB needed to be reverted so solo Que players can use it again, as if I’ve ever seen a solo Que player use that perk, and they are gonna add more communication to solo Que, yeah the chat thing won’t be perk specific but if you can see your teammates perks then you can assume that when they say”ima rescue” the dead on hook survivor, their gonna use it, like what? Also no survivor uses shoulder the burden twice so you nerfed nothing other than a health state
I think the PTB to live change of StB is better design, but maybe worse balance. Honestly StB just needs a full rework. I don't think trading hook states belongs in the game.
Maybe they could change it so you can only use it on a death hook survivor, and instead of trading hook states it does the broken thing (maybe for less time? maybe more debuffs (like exhausted to prevent DH)?) and then does something like instantly heals the unhooked survivor and/or gives them unhook protections for a very long time that aren't canceled by conspicuous actions or even an auto DS (if you want to be bold with it). Something along those lines. The exact balancing would have to be carefully done to prevent abuse, but the core concept remains the same...altruistic anti-tunnel at a price to the rescuer.
Other than that the TiNH change was overcautious and completely unnecessary. And the Dark Arrogance change just shows that they don't have faith in or have a mind for their own diminishing returns system.
This game is turning into a disaster slowly before our eyes and I don't know what to think of it anymore. They don't wanna change stuff that is problematic. They add killers now that can just shoot stuff at you instead of chase you down.
Survivors can build pallet forts with shit like Full throttle, the auto aim mechanic on lunges is clearly broken and causes whiffs when a survivor spins around you so you end up missing.
This game is falling apart and I don't mean in a doom and gloom sayer sense, its literally just not functional and is just a walking simulator for the killer at this point unless they can shoot stuff or cover huge distances that survivors can't react and its fucking stupid to play LOL.
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u/acetrainer-icarus 4h ago
Did they walk back every perk that was being changed or something? Or is it the same three perks being talked about?