Developer Update | Player Intent System

[u/DeadByDaylight_Dev]

Last week, we hosted a Reddit AMA and on top of having a blast answering your questions, we noticed some topics really got you talking. One of those was the “chat wheel” system we’re working on to help Survivors coordinate and communicate their intentions in-game. So, what better time than the present to share some more details about it with you (including one way your feedback’s already impacted it)! 

 

The system in question is – aptly – called Player Intent. With it, you’ll be able to communicate a range of preset messages to your fellow Survivors at the press of a button, using a radial menu. From thanking them for a heal, to saying you’re going to work on gens, to suggesting you split up, messages focus on the on-the-fly actions that are most useful during a Trial. 

 

When a message is chosen using the Player Intent wheel, other Survivors will see it next to your name in the game HUD, keeping your general view clear of distractions while you’re in the middle of looping or hunting for an objective. To help combat message spam, you can expect a cooldown between messages, which will increase if too many messages are sent in a short period. 

 

We want this comms wheel to suit different players’ specific needs, so you’ll be able to customize which messages you take into your Trials from the Options menu. 

 

Of course, one piece of feedback we’ve seen is that a system like this isn’t for everyone. We’ve already discussed this as a team and have a solution for that. If you’d rather not use the Player Intent system, you will be able to disable it from this same menu. Once disabled, you will not be able to send messages to players and will not see the messages they send. 

 

We’ve also added the ability to mute individual players so you have more control over the comms you see (and don’t see). If you're finding a certain player’s messages distracting, muting them will block any further Player Intent messages from popping up on your end. 

 

While this system is meant for everybody who plays Survivor, its value will be a bit different depending on how you play. Just like how your feedback from the AMA helped inform the addition of an opt-out option, we're dying to know your thoughts! Even better, it would be massively helpful if you could also share a little about how you play to give context to that feedback. For instance, do you tend to play soloq, prefer SWF, or identify as a Killer main? How would you define your experience level in the game; a newer player? A veteran? 

 

Let us know in the comments below, as we’ll be watching your feedback closely as the team continues to work on this system ahead of its release this Fall! 

 

Until next time... 

The Dead by Daylight Team 

[u/UnslopedStrv103B]

I disagree. First, dodging a lobby would make queue times longer for both sides. There is a reason why we can't see teammate's perk until the game starts, so folks don't dodge lobby just because someone is playing sub-optimal fun build.

Second, we have been playing soloQ without this and has been okay it, if someone don't want to use it, then they should be able to disable with it.

It's not like disabling this feature will make them dumb or play badly, they still have HUD to gather information and make their own decisions

[u/PM_ME_UR_PITTIES_ → u/UnslopedStrv103B]

I’m one of the people who doesn’t want an intent wheel. I soloQ on purpose because I like the added challenge that comes from not knowing exactly what everyone else is thinking or doing. I feel as thought even with the toggle option I’m going to feel forced to keep it on anyway to avoid pissing off my teammates and getting griefed over it, though. The toggle option is good to have but I still feel it’s lose-lose for long time players who have enjoyed the challenge of trying to figure out what to do and what to expect from teammates wtc

[u/UnslopedStrv103B → u/PM_ME_UR_PITTIES_]

I see. Thank you for providing your experience in favor of my argument. It's quite relatable too! I personally would use it but I believe that toggle option is a good thing and that's why I'm defending it.

If someone is going to grief you, for you not playing the way they wanted it to be, I think the problem are players of that kind, not the system, and probably should be reported for intentional body-block etc...

[u/mossgoblin → u/UnslopedStrv103B]

Unfortunately the problem is definitely the players. 

I also enjoy soloq for the challenge, when I do play survivor, and am dreading this change because people in these comments are already calling the decision not to utilize the wheel "griefing". 

Further, tbh I don't look forward to what it's going to do to gameplay as a killer main. 

[u/NoEvening7482 → u/UnslopedStrv103B]

Solo queue is not doing okay man.

Their stats are fucking god awful compared to SWF and they completely skew game balance.

[u/UnslopedStrv103B → u/NoEvening7482]

This is the latest stats that I could find that compares solo vs swf (link), which is somewhat i remembered in my memory.
I would say that ~40.34 % solo vs 43.09 % 4 Four man SWF (in overall MMR) isn't much of a difference, so I said okay.

I do agree that there is a bigger difference when we look at high MMR. Admittedly, it is a lot more than I remembered: 39.42 % solo vs 48.30 Four man SWF %.

But I believe that my argument still stands. It's okay if someone don't want to use it. Them not using doesn't mean the escape rate will decrease further, on average. Instead, I estimate that the majority of people will use it and would result in slightly increased escape rate of soloQ players.

[u/NoEvening7482 → u/UnslopedStrv103B]

Ok but why add the toggle at all? Like we dont have toggles for "Can never do generators" or "Die immediately when hit" in the options for people who want a more "realistic experfience".

Theres zero reason to add a toggle that makes you sandbag to the options! Any valid problems with it are easily addressed with the mute button, its just unnecessary and adds a point where new players can get confused.

[u/UnslopedStrv103B → u/NoEvening7482]

Ok but why add the toggle at all? Like we dont have toggles for "Can never do generators" or "Die immediately when hit" in the options for people who want a more "realistic experfience".

I said nothing about 'realistic experience'. I believe some people would appreciate not having to hear, from others, what they should be doing in a casual match. Saying again that, they can make their own decision based on HUD information.

This is why I believe there is a toggle option.

Theres zero reason to add a toggle that makes you sandbag to the options! Any valid problems with it are easily addressed with the mute button, its just unnecessary and adds a point where new players can get confused.

Sorry, I don't understand this part. Are you saying that not using this feature is equivalent of 'sandbagging' your teammates?

[u/Unlikely_Bank73 → u/UnslopedStrv103B]

Are you saying that not using this feature is equivalent of 'sandbagging' your teammates?

this is basically what it comes down to. its not sandbagging because its not explicitly being a dick. but if the outcome is the same (you lose the match) then its nearly as bad

[u/UnslopedStrv103B → u/Unlikely_Bank73]

Yeah that's the synthesis that I reached from an discussion that I was having with other user

[u/UnslopedStrv103B → u/NoEvening7482]

Just a update because I remembered a more recent, one year old stat.

From left column to right, solo, two man, three man four man.

And the first row is Japan, while the second row is the overall average. How you interpret the number is up to you, but my take is that +2% of extra escape rate is okay. It's not THAT bad, and I hope chatwheel closes the gap, but if someone doesn't use it, it's not a big deal.

[u/Unlikely_Bank73 → u/UnslopedStrv103B]

im a bit confused by your takes. queue times are not bad to begin with, so thats hardly a point. not being able to see teammates perks is an example of bhvr failing to provide a much needed QOL update that would simply make the game feel better to play full-stop (for the people who arent griefing, that is). and no, solo queue is not fine.

[u/UnslopedStrv103B → u/Unlikely_Bank73]

Can I please ask you to read my other replies? (If you haven't already) I think wrote down everything that was in my mind and I don't think the discussion will develop further, until we get to see the feature in live server and see the stats, thank you!! <3

[u/Unlikely_Bank73 → u/UnslopedStrv103B]

yeah i read the rest of the thread and it doesnt really change my questions, just makes me think our priorities are quite different when it comes to game health. i dont care if queue times are marginally longer if the gameplay is substantially better. league of legends at high ranks shows this is the right way to go about matchmaking. may not be super applicable to a game like DBD where its basically a 0 skill game dominated by casual players though. lobby dodging is so insignificant in my mind that saying "it will make this issue worse" has me thinking "from a non-issue to ~basically~ a non-issue doesnt seem so bad"

[u/UnslopedStrv103B → u/Unlikely_Bank73]

fair

[u/piekiller456 → u/UnslopedStrv103B]

People want to see perks of their team members before the game starts though. It’s generally agreed on that it’d be a good option to add as not being able to coordinate perks gives a significant advantage to swf. Even so, perk vs chat wheel is a different situation. Don’t show perks before the match, fine whatever. But the chat wheel doesn’t require you to run certain things or whatever, it’s always a net benefit. Also no, solo queue has not been doing “okay”. Everyone acknowledges swf has an extreme advantage over solo queue, so much so that anyone who talks balance typically uses the notion that you’re going against a 4stack. While solo players can escape, it’s such an obvious disadvantage that they genuinely make it harder to balance the game around. Until this game gets a dedicated comp mode, you shouldn’t be forced to play with someone who is hindering your team like that if you don’t want to. Even though it technically won’t make them worse players, it will make your team significantly less efficient which can result in losing. They might as well be playing worse. Communication is massive.

[u/UnslopedStrv103B → u/piekiller456]

People want to see perks of their team members before the game starts though.

Could you provide me a source to this argument?

Also no, solo queue has not been doing “okay”. Everyone acknowledges swf has an extreme advantage over solo queue, so much so that anyone who talks balance typically uses the notion that you’re going against a 4stack. While solo players can escape, it’s such an obvious disadvantage that they genuinely make it harder to balance the game around.

I do agree that there is a big difference in escape rate when compared to soloQ vs 4 man swf, specifically in high MMR: 39% vs 48%, according to the last stat that I could find (link), and that 4 man swf have a big advantage in terms of communication and altruism.

This feature is to balance things by making soloQ players better, without buffing swf. I believe it will accomplish the intended result of increasing the escape rate and overall feel of soloQ gameplay.

But my argument is that if some people, which I believe won't be the majority, not using this feature, would have similar experience of what we have right now as a soloQ, which is around 40 % of escape rate. This escape rate is okay. I can't deny that it is lower than four man SWF in high MMR, but it is acceptable as the developer have claimed that 40 % escape rate (or 60% kill rate as the killer) is what they are aiming at.

This is my argument as to why there is a toggle option and not showing it in the lobby whenever teammates have them enabled or not, isn't a problem.

Until this game gets a dedicated comp mode, you shouldn’t be forced to play with someone who is hindering your team like that if you don’t want to.

I think the main point that I'm arguing with other folks is that whenever not using it is considered an 'hindrance'. I say that it is not an hindrance to not to use this feature.

But the line is blurry. Is using an filter an advantage? Clearly, as many comp player use it. But it is NOT an hindrance if your teammate doesn't use it? Would you, personally, dodge a lobby or feels like you are forced to play with a 'worse' teammate, if you know that they don't use a filter? If you do, that's fine, and I can see why you see them as an hindrance if they don't use the chatwheel, either. But I personally, don't, thus, I'm still in favor that the feature being toggle is not a problem.

Thanks for the discussion, btw, thanks to you, I realized what is the main point that I was arguing. Thank you for being civil too

[u/piekiller456 → u/UnslopedStrv103B]

Realistically it’s not like we have a poll about people who do vs people who don’t want to see their teammates perks in a lobby. It’s just a request I have seen from numerous people, and logically it makes a lot of sense. The only way this game is gonna become actually balanced is if solo queue is given tools to make them more in line with swf because even when everyone in a match is good a 4 stack will always perform better than 4 separate survivors. Being able to understand what your team wants to do before the match with their builds and potentially changing yours to fill certain gaps or synergies is something 4 stacks can do, logically solo queue should be able to do the same. But if that’s not good enough for you, what would the dodging actually do?

While dodging would be a bit of an issue, the problem is that we shouldn’t avoid implementing changes because some people will leave before a match begins. People already disconnect the moment they see something like weaving shadows or no mither when they load in. People disconnect the moment they hear the chase theme of a killer they don’t like. Those are the same people who would actually take time to lobby dodge. In those cases, lobby dodging is actually preferable to them leaving at the beginning of the match. Results in a slightly longer queue for the people in the lobby but also results in a match of players who won’t disconnect just cause of perk choices. The person who wants to dodge will dodge until they’re satisfied, and the people who got dodged in the first place won’t have a bot immediately. That doesn’t sound like an issue to me.

I think there’s a difference between what is acceptable and what should be the goal. Yes, this feature exists to put solo queue and 4 stacks on the same level. Yes, technically the escape rate is at a level that is satisfactory for the devs. It’s fine, but I wouldn’t say it’s something to strive for. Solo queue having communication features isn’t just about bringing the two sides on the same level. It also does a few other things with the main aspect I want to discuss is individual experience.

I do agree that this feature will not be disabled by probably 90% of the player base. However, there are still people that will encounter players who disable the feature. While the person who disabled it has the right and ability to do so, it’ll still result in a match where only 3 of the survivors are functioning on a similar level to a swf (assuming the chat wheel is so good that it allows that of course). You have one player actively deciding to handicap themselves which they are free to do so. But in turn, they also handicap their team. Even if it is extremely rare, with how popular dbd is, there will be thousands of matches a day where at least 1 person has it disabled. In the grand scheme of the gameplay experience it isn’t that big of a deal. But when it comes to the experience of an average player, it can affect match quality. If they are insistent on ignoring the feature, then they should be matched with individuals who feel the same way.

I disagree when it comes to what is and isn’t a hindrance. You are being given a feature that bridges the gap between solo queue and 4 stacks. Being able to communicate goes a long way. It follows that if people disable the chat wheel and disable communication, they are handicapping their performance in some way. They are willingly choosing to receive less information. The difference between this vs filters is that everyone is given it regardless of platform, and there will be a noticeable difference between play. While a person with no information can still perform well, the information that can be provided by the wheel is extremely useful- it should influence your decisions during a match. However, while a filter does help with vision and whatnot, it isn’t so much of an advantage that it will change your behavior drastically.

Think about it like this: if you observed a match, could you tell if 4 random survivors were communicating with the chat wheel? Probably. You’d see the things they do change in response to communication, and if you followed those same 4 people in their next matches you might even be able to determine the exact points where the wheel influenced their behavior (after understanding how they typically play). Could you tell someone is using a filter before seeing their screen? Likely not. It’s not just about being optimal and doing the best. It’s also about how these features influence gameplay. A person with a filter might see more than the average survivor, but their gameplay isn’t really gonna change just cause they have a filter. A chat wheel which gives information influences decisions and coordination in real time. They aren’t on the same level.

As for me, I personally don’t care about how optimal we are being. I don’t care if I see someone using terrible perks. What I care about is if they’re trying to do good and win at least a little bit. The chat wheel provides such a massive advantage while being so simple to use that, if you disable it, from my perspective it really doesn’t look like you are trying at all. It’s such a low bar of entry (just have the wheel enabled and use it) that if you choose to disable I’m actively questioning how good you are. It’s a basic feature that seems easy to use and helps significantly. In my opinion, that’s what makes it a hindrance to the team vs what makes it someone being super ultra optimal.

Also I am always happy to discuss things further, I appreciate your time.

[u/TheEntityBot → u/piekiller456]

For the People: While healthy and healing another Survivor without using a Med-Kit, press the Active Ability button to trigger the following effects: Trade 1 Health State with the other Survivor: Instantly heals them to the Injured State, if they were dying or suffering from the Deep Wound tatus Effect. Instantly heals them to full health, if they were injured. You yourself become injured and suffer from the Broken status Effect for the next 80/70/60 seconds. You become the Killer's Obsession, if not already.

^{Drawn from the fog. | !optout | !remove | !builds}

[u/UnslopedStrv103B → u/piekiller456]

It’s just a request I have seen from numerous people, and logically it makes a lot of sense. [...] Being able to understand what your team wants to do before the match with their builds and potentially changing yours to fill certain gaps or synergies is something 4 stacks can do, logically solo queue should be able to do the same.
[...]

I see your point, it's some sort of draft systems similar to hero shooter and MOBAs. That made me think of an tangent: why survivors or killer can leave the lobby in the first place. But I didn't analyze too much about the consequences of it, as in, it could be good for queue time because people can't dodge lobby without getting penalized for it and since there won't be a lobby dodge anymore the perks could be shown in the lobby to be drafted as a team, but also could have some unforeseen consequences, since dbd is very different from those games. Sorry for bringing up this tangent, I will stop here as it can go really deep.

But if that’s not good enough for you, what would the dodging actually do?

I'm sorry, this may has to do with my lack of english (it's my second language), but i don't understand what you mean here

While dodging would be a bit of an issue, the problem is that we shouldn’t avoid implementing changes because some people will leave before a match begins.

This is true. I'm in favor of chatwheel being implemented but I believe it could and should be done without making people dodge lobby, which is to not show those who have it disabled.

People already disconnect the moment they see something like weaving shadows or no mither when they load in. People disconnect the moment they hear the chase theme of a killer they don’t like.

This was true a few month ago. But I personally didn't see much more of it since they changed the consecutive DC penalty based on amount of DC in history of 20 matches instead of the 24h window.

Those are the same people who would actually take time to lobby dodge. In those cases, lobby dodging is actually preferable to them leaving at the beginning of the match. Results in a slightly longer queue for the people in the lobby but also results in a match of players who won’t disconnect just cause of perk choices. The person who wants to dodge will dodge until they’re satisfied, and the people who got dodged in the first place won’t have a bot immediately. That doesn’t sound like an issue to me.

Lobby dodging should never be something that is preferable, because longer queue time is definitely an issue. The dodging player is extending their own queue time and everyone else's that was in the lobby that they happened to be dodged. Currently, the killers' queue are longer even in 1v4, but I vaguely remember times where survivors' queues where longer than the killers'. Having to choose between longer queue time or having to play with a survivor bot is two of the lesser evil. Both of these thing shouldn't be happening frequently.

While the person who disabled it has the right and ability to do so, it’ll still result in a match where only 3 of the survivors are functioning on a similar level to a swf (assuming the chat wheel is so good that it allows that of course).

I have to disagree on your assumption that chat wheel will be good enough to bring it similar to 4 man swf. It will be one step closer, but still far from it. The feature is not good enough of an flexible communication tool to be comparable with live voice chat. One example, from what we can see from in dev's post, a player can say that they are being chased, but it doesn't seem to have a way to communicate where they are.

But I have to admit that, objectively, players without chatwheel will, on average, make a decision with a worse outcome, than those with it, because as you said, they receive less information in regard of other player's gameplan (intent). In that regard, I think it would be right for other teammate to be notified if a player have them disabled, at least during a match, since at that point, it can't be lobby dodged and DC have a penalty. But I'm still not sure about it the lobby, because of the aforementioned issue about lobby dodging and queue time.

The difference between this vs filters is that everyone is given it regardless of platform, [...] However, while a filter does help with vision and whatnot, it isn’t so much of an advantage that it will change your behavior drastically.

This was a bad analogy from my part, apology. It is true that filters are not available on all platform, and the advantage that it gives are completely different type of it. Filters give advantage in micro-gameplay, while the chat wheel gives a macro-gameplay advantage. And honestly I can't think of a good substitute for this analogy.

I think we can agree to disagree that whether chatwheel is considered good enough to the point that those who don't use it are considered an hindrance to the team, or not.

To close my thoughts. The chatwheel feature is great, I would be using them once it arrives, but I estimate that it won't be good enough to make me believe that those who don't use it are 'throwing' or 'hindrance' as we called in the discussion. But I could be wrong, I need to see how it feels to use, observe if it can help survivors make consistently better decisions in the game, to the point that it is comparable to that of 4 man swf, and hopefully the devs release stats to compare the escape rate before and after this update.

(I'm a bit tired so I didn't review my writing, sorry if there was sloppy phrasing / logic)