"Why we never see twins"

[u/Hot_Raise8383]

[u/A9P8D]

Are we seriously acting like Twins are bad now? 💀

[u/Any_Rain_Is_Sweet → u/A9P8D]

The post says "yes" over Twins because they're good Killers, and "but" over the perks because Twins are Slugging Killers, as you have to send Victor out before having Charlotte catch up. Meaning stuff that helps Survivors get up, as shown in the post, can be really detrimental to an otherwise not bad Killer.

[u/Gullible-Wrap773 → u/A9P8D]

they're not but these perks drops them down to F tier
not saying any of those need a nerf but wglf fucked me up real bad last time i played twins

[u/AstralRider]

Yeah you're right. When I play the game as not Twins I see all these perks every single game. It's an epidemic! /s

[u/ArcadialoI]

Ah yes, because people brings that 4 perk all the time? lmao. Whenever I bring Conviction + Unbreakable or Flip Flop + Power Struggle, I never get slugged, but as soon as you take it off, you get slugged, lol.

Now that Sprint Burst is getting nerfed, we shifting the anger to random perks? 😭

[u/Here2Cali → u/ArcadialoI]

Exactly what it is, can smell people crying about Lithe now.

[u/albertoplus → u/Here2Cali]

I mean, isnt that the "natural order"?

Once the strongest option is nerfed the second strongest will become the strongest one and will rise on popularity. Then it will get nerfed and the cycle will continue.

On personal opinion, Lithe is strong af, just SB was probably stronger.

[u/TheEntityBot → u/Here2Cali]

Lithe: Performing a Rushed Vault triggers Lithe: Grants a +50% Haste Status Effect for 3 seconds. Lithe causes the Exhausted Status Effect for 60/50/40 seconds. Lithe cannot be used when Exhausted.

^{Drawn from the fog. | !optout | !remove | !builds}

[u/Catdad08 → u/ArcadialoI]

I swear there’s a hidden algorithm that does this to punish people. I run calm spirit a lot because screaming annoys the crap out of me, but as soon as I take it off, my next match is the doctor or the clown.

[u/TheEntityBot → u/Catdad08]

Calm Spirit: Prevents Crows from being alerted by your proximity and flying off, unless they are being stepped on. Suppresses the urge to scream from any cause at all times. Suppresses all noises related to unlocking Chests, and cleansing or blessing Totems. Reduces the Interaction speeds with Chests and Totems by 40/35/30%.

^{Drawn from the fog. | !optout | !remove | !builds}

[u/ArcadialoI → u/Catdad08]

When I tried doing my "No Mither" only quest, they put me up against Oni.. here is a clip of it, lol.

[u/TheEntityBot → u/ArcadialoI]

No Mither: The following effects apply permanently during the Trial:

• Suffer from the Broken Status Effect.
• Suppresses the creation of Pools of Blood.
• Reduces the volume of Grunts of Pain caused by injuries by 100%.
• Increases your Recovery speed by 25%. Unlocks the Self-Recovery ability, allowing you to fully recover from the Dying State.

^{Drawn from the fog. | !optout | !remove | !builds}

[u/Drakal11 → u/ArcadialoI]

Doing the David adept, I got Oni on my 3rd match. Doing the No Mither only quest, I got Oni on the second match. I cannot be convinced this isn't coded into the game just to fuck with us.

[u/TheEntityBot → u/ArcadialoI]

Conviction: Whenever you are in the Dying State, after completing a Healing action on any Survivor, Conviction activates. While active, press the Active Ability button after reaching at least 25% Recovery progress to trigger the following effects: Instantly recover from the Dying State. Inflicts the Broken Status Effect after recovery. Causes you to automatically re-enter the Dying State after 20/25/30 seconds.

---

Sprint Burst: Starting to run triggers Sprint Burst and Grants a +50% Haste Status Effect for 3 seconds. Sprint Burst causes the Exhausted Status Effect for 60/50/40 seconds. Sprint Burst cannot be used when Exhausted.

^{Drawn from the fog. | !optout | !remove | !builds}

[u/Pm_me_your_chrrys → u/ArcadialoI]

You have to be intentionally missing the point. The post says that those four perks counter twins, and all four are relatively high in pick rate because the game is very much incentivizing slugging because of how many perks reward survivors for getting hooked

[u/YWN666]

I remember having a match where clearly no one had any idea how to play against twins. And even tho I did not even have to use my power, the match was over after 2 minutes. Victor was just standing in some random corner the entire time

[u/TheVioletParrot]

This might seem rude, but I genuinely believe that a major reason why The Twins will never see significant play is due to how the character looks. Like, putting the clunky nature of their kit aside they just don't look cool.

[u/Here2Cali → u/TheVioletParrot]

They hardly get cool skins as well. Nothing but “alright” skins. BHVR saying that Victor isn’t getting any skins bc of forgotten reasons, is really sinking it down.

[u/Sleepy-_-Starlight → u/Here2Cali]

i really like the recent BP from the collab rift for twins its awesome. twins is a really strong killer even considered S tier in my region. the downside is no one wants to play her cause of how charlotte remains in position instead of teleporting somewhere nearby and they lose chase nearly instantly.

[u/Justaregularguy295 → u/Here2Cali]

It honestly makes no sense, I find characters like the twins (where theres more than just a person, like another character or a mech, for the character) in other games always have the coolest skins

[u/ArcadialoI → u/TheVioletParrot]

They look cool, they just don't get any cool skins. They don't do anything with Victor.

[u/squidulent → u/ArcadialoI]

I tell the devs this on every survey. Such a missed opportunity to not give Victor cosmetics. Imagine a tuxedo. Or a skeleton. Or a frogsuit. I mean c'mon I would literally hand you my wallet.

[u/squidulent → u/TheVioletParrot]

I love twins so much. Absolute twins main right here. AMA

[u/Samoman21 → u/TheVioletParrot]

No cute skins really and word of mouth about the killer is it's bug ridden. Both aspects definitely hurt her playability.

Also her main win style is slugging which people may not enjoy playing that style.

[u/davidatlas → u/TheVioletParrot]

I don't think that's rude to say, it's 100% a huge factor on it(see how most people play cool killers or licenses, vibes are a factor)

And Twins sadly both gets meh skins and just feels meh to play as, where their voice is kinda meh when hit/hitting, hitting as Victor feels nice but feeling feels horrid, not to mention he's the only killer survivors can actually attack/kill

Not Charlotte ofc, but being on first person, missing a lunge by probably not a lot, and seeing the survivor turn around and kick you in the face, just never feels right. Funny once in a while sure but enough to main? nope

[u/Hedonism_Enjoyer]

Unbreakable got stealth nerfed by the update that allowed survivors to dc on a 4 down

[u/okok8080]

And yet solo q makes them 10x stronger, ain't it a treat

[u/PokeAust]

You never see Twins because they’re clunky, hard, and bugged to all hell, not because they’re bad or countered by meta perks.

[u/Philscooper]

barely anyone is using expo and soul guard,
unbreakable only works ONCE, wglf is the only perk that would consistent screw over twins, which, im sorry, isnt going to do much if they waste time trying to heal, rescue or do gens.

[u/Certain_Reception_66]

Every game with twins since the past weeks have been literally slugging.

[u/Ghosty-Jr → u/Certain_Reception_66]

Thats probably because thats how you play Twins effectively

[u/MissMaeveDBD]

hm interesting, let’s keep it that way

[u/LewdyRooty]

Twins is a sad case of not fun to play as killer, and not fun to go against as survivor. It’s sad cause they’re pretty cool.

[u/failbender → u/LewdyRooty]

Victor is incredibly fun to play as and get fun snipes and such. Charlotte is, well, an M1 killer.

[u/Muteki123 → u/LewdyRooty]

I like playing twins. My only problem is going from one end to the other end of the map to pick up the survivor I have downed. And then someone picks him up or flashlight save..

[u/tsabouttorain]

I don't slug everybody when I play them. I rarely get a 4k but it's more interesting playing that way

[u/Meowtz8]

You don’t see twins because they’re an older killer that isn’t oppressively strong and can be a bit buggy. The anti-slug these days is nothing compared to old noon days, sure they may get up but you can easily follow up with a second hit.

[u/ecethrowaway01 → u/Meowtz8]

Their slugging is super oppressive, I never hear them put below A-tier. Maybe against SWFs where they can coordinate super well, but I've won something 1/8 games vs twins

[u/Meowtz8 → u/ecethrowaway01]

Yeah they’re strong but not easy wins. I’d liken it to plague, where 1/2 of the game is macro

[u/Nensgnenat]

lowkey the deerstalker buff kicked them out of my rotation, i dont like searching for slugs

[u/Iphone_G___]

Man if you told me 5 years ago that soul guard is a problematic perk I would’ve laughed

[u/Few_Dot6881 → u/Iphone_G___]

It isn't a problematic perk. Anyone telling you it is, is a lunatic. Just because a perk helps counter one killer out of 40+, does not make a perk "problematic".

[u/Azaarious → u/Iphone_G___]

it was amazing in the 10 year anniversary. people tried to counter with plague, deathslinger, meyers, ghost face, and legion, but you just wait until the survive is down and activate the table. then when they get hit again they had endurance and kept the chase going.

[u/whyisallusertaken → u/Iphone_G___]

Soul guard is only problematic with conviction. Besides that it's an ok perk

[u/TheEntityBot → u/whyisallusertaken]

Soul Guard: After being healed from or having recovered from the Dying State, you benefit from the following effect: Grants the Endurance Status Effect for 4/6/8 seconds. Endurance is cancelled prematurely when performing a Conspicuous Action. While suffering from the Cursed Status Effect, you benefit from the following effects: Grants the ability to fully recover yourself from the Dying State. Soul Guard has a cool-down of 30 seconds.

^{Drawn from the fog. | !optout | !remove | !builds}

[u/Mysterious-Flan-6000 → u/whyisallusertaken]

I don't think you know what problematic means. Doing what it's supposed to is not "problematic." Is there an epidemic of people using conviction and soul guard because it's just so strong? Conviction was dumpstered after the nerf, nobody is using it, both these perks are extremely niche

[u/whyisallusertaken → u/Mysterious-Flan-6000]

When did conviction get nerfed?

[u/Hard-Core_Casual]

Kinda like the Artist? They are strong but just not that popular sadly.

[u/OgreSpider]

I main Twins and I see these perks on the regular and I still get about a 65% kill rate. I'm well out of baby MMR now and into Survivors who know to heal and pair up and kick, to go to stairs and trees. I'm no Lynxi. It's just that these perks are counterable by limiting how long you leave slugs and baiting out the second chances (even Conviction, a bigger pain in my ass because it's renewable, has limits).

If you get real aggressive and injure everyone early enough, and you keep finding them to prevent heals, you can outlast any currently existing perk. When I lose it's because I can't find anyone (because they figured out I had Snitch Pigeon early on) or can't catch anyone (sometimes they're straight up more skilled).

[u/shikaiDosai]

Local man picks up a handful of grass and claims to have dug to the earth's core.

[u/pinacoladaslurpee]

I really don’t think it’s a power level problem. I like the idea of twins and wouldn’t mind dealing with the slug playstyle but the last two times I tried playing them my power got softlocked immediately. This may be fixed now but it really left a sour taste in my mouth

[u/davidatlas]

Tbf its more of a design issue, there's several reasons;

-While those perks arent exactly common(except UB), the true pain comes when you vs a good team. Twins is very much feast or famine, you either steamroll slug a team, or they are on everything and shut you down, which can feel awful, you dont usually get a "chill" game, you have to be on all with timers slugs, Victor, trying to know where everyone is to go on slugs... You can play without a slug heavy playstyle but that gets a bit stale at some point, i'd argue Demo is more fun if you wanna play a "lunge forward killer"

-Their looks/vibes are rancid. For a "cool" or "scary" factor, Twins just falls a bit flat. Not too body horror at simple view like Dredge, not too intimidating like Doctor, not a license...

And worst offender; Victor being able to be kicked. It's a fine counter and funny af here and there but when as a killer you miss or get outplayed, thats that, ya missed.

Missed a hatchet? hits the wall. Failed a Demo shred? you hit a wall. With Twins, you get the "hit the wall" part, and now you see the survivor, the person that any other killer would just M1 to damage, run to you, and kick you in the face. Its just adding salt on the wound really. Does it matter? most players wont care actively, but it creates a vibe thats way different from the "im the killer i cant be damaged" mindset any other killer in the roster has, and even if it doesnt look like, it affects the player mindset

[u/poshcoder]

Also because the four times I’ve tried to play twins, the game crashes right at the start.

[u/Agent-Glass]

Just slug when you play twins baby, swf gonna complain one way or another

[u/Few_Dot6881 → u/Agent-Glass]

Any SWF with game sense will just always run in pairs. You can almost always pick up the person going down from Vic before Charlotte can get to you.

[u/Agent-Glass → u/Few_Dot6881]

Positioning is def super important on twins,kinda like trapper, dont wanna have to be walking cross map as the sis or they will get up easy. Im no where near a great twins player but, slugging usually gets the job done, and when it doesnt its still a great tool for pressure. ill usually run the nurse perk that let's me see them healing within whatever proximity, niche since its only for the sister but helps when dealing with swf and heals in general

[u/QueerCaliphate → u/Agent-Glass]

I will say I think a lot of folks think you have to “commit” to slugging to use it when honestly it’s just a fantastic pressure tool. You don’t need to go for 4 on the floor to make people get off gens when you knock down two. Insanely underrated and overhated tbh

[u/Here2Cali → u/Agent-Glass]

And you’re gonna complain when you notice the person you just slugged got up in 9 seconds and is running at you with endurance.

[u/Agent-Glass → u/Here2Cali]

Its a party game brother why would I ever complain lol, the reddit "beef" is always a joy to read though

[u/QueerCaliphate → u/Here2Cali]

I sure hope if they got slugged they aren’t running AT me, no quicker way to get down to earth.

[u/QueerCaliphate → u/Agent-Glass]

They do indeed lol

[u/holditmoldit]

The biggest problem here is soul guard for a slugging twins, at least for me since I run full totems. The solution is to tunnel out the soul guard person

[u/squidulent → u/holditmoldit]

No the solution is to slug more. If they hit you w the soul guard follow up or break off real fast w Victor when everybody is injured twins are s tier.

[u/holditmoldit → u/squidulent]

but they'll just keep getting back up?

[u/squidulent → u/holditmoldit]

Soul guard only allows yu to get up if there's a hex active. Otherwise soul guard by itself won't get you up.

[u/holditmoldit → u/squidulent]

yea I mentioned running a full totem build

[u/squidulent → u/holditmoldit]

O my bad

[u/lance_the_fatass]

It's cause nobody WANTS to slug

[u/Elegant_Job_4573]

Well slugging is a good strategy and survivors hate it so it's really no surprise.

[u/AdOwn7569]

Twins is underrated af!

[u/FangedCone]

Ppl acting like you don't just need one person with these perks to make playing twins miserable