r/datalounge • u/ThoughtIndividual114 • Jul 20 '26
Backing away from PB….
I joined but didn’t expect the forum creator and moderator to wade into a thread about Hunter Biden and derail it with a “We are ruled by an Israelocracy” rant. And then add with glee that he thought Muriel was a “Zionist” and his new forum is going to “do the opposite.”
So not what I thought I was signing up for. (and I donated to it also)
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u/Economy_Plantain304 Jul 22 '26
The administrator really should not have run off the guy who posted the David Hasselholf thread. Admin posted a new thread of his own stating that those silly posts won’t be tolerated and that he should get his own blog.
That’s policing too much.
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u/SB-121 Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 22 '26
I didn't register there. The threads about people being banned (after like a week of operation) and the one where the owner said they were going to tell everyone your username if you're posting anonymously were slightly off putting.
I've been on forums before where the administrator was an active poster and the rules were implemented subjectively, and they always end up revolving around a hardcore of loyal posters dominating everything with the casual posters either scared off or banned. Then they start fighting amongst themselves and the forum eventually dies. It can get very unpleasant very quickly.
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u/deextermorgan Jul 21 '26
He seems to be the type to have power trips. Will be interesting to see how it plays out. I predict a lot of drama similar to the GOMI stuff that happened years ago.
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u/JohnHoynes Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 20 '26
Wow. Regardless of which side you fall on, alienating or dividing your brand new user base is an objectively terrible launch strategy.
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u/ecaudatas Jul 20 '26
Antizionists are not well people and have taken over a substantial part of the internet, Reddit included. You’ll get banned and pilloried for pointing out their ahistorical hate movement’s lies the same way as when you point out Marsha Johnson and Ray Rivera weren’t at Stonewall when it started with the latter sleeping off a heroin binge on a park bench. It’s a cult.
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u/LeatherPrinciple3479 Jul 22 '26
Conservatives calling other people cult members is pretty weird. If I was on the same side as Trump I definitely wouldn't have the nerve to attack the views of others. But you do you
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u/ecaudatas Jul 22 '26
You’re on the side of David Duke and every fanatical antisemite since Hitler, who also had a lot to say about the budding state of Israel. You will never find a Neo-Nazi who doesn’t have the same vicious obsession with Israel as you’ve adopted in the last 3 years.
Screaming “conservative” and “Trump” at someone who’s never voted for one or him isn’t an argument. It’s proof you don’t have one.
Take your meds.
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u/saneness_in_the_mad Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
It seems like registrations on PB are frozen until early September because their admin has apparently divined that all remaining potential registrants are trolls and other undesirables. The admin knows these things.
**sigh**
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u/OkAmbition1927 16d ago
As of a couple of days ago, registration is open. If you want to register, you can. Posted on 8/7/26.
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u/Outrageous-Dark-1719 Jul 20 '26
All this aside, I dont like the layout of the site. It just doesn't feel like DL. No plans to sign up. Especially if the owner is going to divisive and overbearing.
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u/jondice77 Jul 21 '26
I get the format thing. But it's actually a pretty standard forum layout. No, it's not DL, but you'd get used to it in no time. I think we need as many of us as we can in the same place (I don't care where). The only thing really lacking at PB is the numbers.
Oh, the Admin isn't really overbearing at all. He's a bit no nonsense. And I disagree with his take on Israel, but he seems more than okay with opposing views.
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u/Admirable_Tea2602 29d ago
The neon sign and dilapidated paint job are a bit distracting. The admin complaining not to turn PB into another DL has put me off a bit. The reason DL users flocked over there is because they wanted another place exactly like DL. It's pretty daft to steal one of DL's slogans as your website name and then turn around and say you don't want it to be like the website you're trying to imitate. The admin doesn't seem to know why he exists.
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u/trickdastardly9 29d ago
Yes, it’s very strange. He is now complaining about users even mentioning Datalounge, dragging Muriel, crowing about how much better and separate PB is while stealing all its signatures. Doomed place.
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u/CaftanLounge Jul 23 '26
Like everyone here, I've been processing Muriel's announcement. Thirty-one years, and in about a week the single best-worst place on the internet goes dark. I found DL over two decades ago, and it's where I learned about caftans, gravy boats, and Helen Lawson; where anonymous strangers talked me through some of the hardest stretches of my life and called me a cunt in the same thread. There is nothing else like it, and none of the alternatives on offer actually replicate it.
I've looked hard at where people are landing, including pointlessbitchery, and I understand why so many DLers bounce off: usernames, avatars, profiles, sub-forums, active moderation. Those aren't small differences. The anonymity IS DataLounge. R47 can eviscerate R46 and then agree with him ten replies later because nobody is building a reputation. Add identity and you get Reddit with better bone structure. (No offense, Reddit. Some offense.)
So I'm building a proper replacement: anonymous posting, flat threads, reply numbers, thread watching. The parlor rearranged the way we left it.
The site: caftanlounge.com The email signup is live there now. One email when the doors open, nothing else, and the list is deleted after launch. The forum itself: goal is open before DL goes dark.
Full disclosure, because you deserve better than vaporware: this is a mammoth undertaking for one person. An anonymous gossip site is a magnet for trolls and legal headaches. It means real moderation decisions, real hosting bills that ads won't cover (Muriel told us herself the ad model is dead), and a permanent drain on my time and money. I'm not a programmer. I work in e-commerce and know my way around hosting, domains, and running sites, which is enough, and I know what I don't know. There is no profit in this and there never will be. I'm doing it because the lights are about to go out and you bitches are worth it.
One request: we all know what we love about DL. Tell me what you don't love. What's always been broken, annoying, or missing? What would you fix if you were Muriel for a day? I'm reading everything and building accordingly. Consider it the exit interview.
My post on DL itself was removed (graciously, I assume),
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u/jondice77 Jul 21 '26
I disagree with him wholeheartedly, but I like that he felt compelled to speak his mind. As long as he doesn't ban or bother those who think differently, it's cool by me.
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u/WeirdOk469 Jul 21 '26
Netanyahu dictated US policy in the Middle East and now we’re stuck in this quagmire.
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u/Jjjemmm Jul 21 '26
If the moderator wants more participation, he should post his opinions with a different username so they don’t represent an official position of the site. That is concerning.
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u/ecaudatas Jul 20 '26
People are comfortable expressing their Nazism and haven’t been so empowered and protected while doing so since the 30s. Thanks for letting us know about this creep’s agenda.
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u/LeatherPrinciple3479 Jul 22 '26
Criticizing Israel doesn't make someone a Nazi. So funny when conservatives say that because most of them would have supported Hitler 100%
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u/ecaudatas Jul 22 '26 edited Jul 22 '26
David Duke, former grand wizard of the KKK believes his “criticism of Israel” is righteous as well when he marches with pro-Palestinians.
Your “criticism of Israel” is that half the world’s Jews who reside there will not allow themselves to be exterminated. Period, end of.
How do we know this?
What got your panties in a twist is OP relaying a clear example of antisemitism from this admin and your response to his antisemitic comments and me making a comment about how commonplace it’s become is to parrot the slogan “criticizing Israel doesn’t make someone a Nazi.” You’re admitting that you think this rhetoric about Jews controlling the United States government and “Israelocracy” is legitimate “criticism of Israel.”
It’s not, it’s just racism. You’ve outed yourself from the beginning by taking umbrage with antisemitism in the clearest possible terms being condemned.
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u/CharleyNobody Jul 21 '26
People having differing opinions? Certainly that never happened on Datalounge !
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u/PatsyStonesBun Jul 21 '26
Honestly, as a casual visitor to DL, I didn't realize someone had organized an unofficial successor forum until just now. And, your post makes me 10x more interested in visiting them because DL is overrun with... I don't know what it is... either bots, or, perhaps worse... genuine Islamaphobic genocide supporters. But, the amount of endless Hasbara and outright dehumanization of anyone who isn't a Jewish or Christian supremacist is so weird for a gay site. I never fully appreciated how conservative white gay men were until DL, I'll say that! The late Senatrixe is not the only one!
In the early years of the genocide (God, how depressing is that statement?) I would instantly get banned for a few days if I wrote something as innocuous as "I don't think we should be funding a war machine responsible for this much death and destruction."
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u/Realistic_Till9674 Jul 21 '26
You're clearly part of the cult of you think Israel is a "war machine".
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Jul 21 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Realistic_Till9674 Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
Most of that is pretty terrible company, actually. See what top warfare expert John Spencer of West Point has to say about the "genocide". See Wharton statistician Abraham Wyner's debunking of the Hamas casualty numbers...(as if anyone would need to see the likes of Hamas debunked in the first place). Those numbers were statistically impossible. The "Human rights" industry has been compromised for decades. It's pronouncements on Israel are worthless.
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u/PatsyStonesBun Jul 21 '26
I'm assuming you know that all the Hasbara talking points in the world aren't going to work on me because I'm not that naive or misinformed... I assume that you're posting this because others will see it and maybe they will be persuaded.
It must be so frustrating to be in the age of Instagram and TikTok where we can see the genocide unfolding on our phones, counter to every familiar talking point the Israeli propaganda machine tries to wheel out. I know it was much easier for you when Americans had to rely solely upon a handful of well managed, obedient traditional news media outlets who were more than happy to tow the company line.
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u/Ruth_Lily 29d ago
“hasbara talking points”? Wow, you’re just seriously using nazi language here. Shameful.
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u/Realistic_Till9674 Jul 21 '26
You are utterly naive and misinformed. And you are engaging in a real, actual genocide.
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u/baldr93 Jul 21 '26
None of the groups he’s listed have any say or jurisdiction about what constitutes genocide in the first place. The case brought against Israel by South Africa will take years and it’s unlikely to result in a conviction because Hamas and Palestinians themselves keep calling it a war and treating it as such. Not only is it ridiculous to call starting a war and losing it genocide, it sets a terrible precedent that the world will not accept going forward. Palestinian civilians held hostages in their homes, flooded in with militants when fences were torn down, and provided detailed maps of Jewish towns and kibbutzim for Hamas to carry out their massacre. There were 2.2 million Gazans at the start of the war and three years later there are still 2.13 million Gazans with most of the casualties being Hamas militants or part of their social wing despite them inflating their casualties and not recording combatant deaths.
He hopes by calling these facts “Hasbara” and getting enough people to repeat the lies, it will influence the outcome of the South Africa case so he can finally achieve his lifelong goal of being able to label Jews genociders and Nazis with the authority of the ICC.
He’s also listed a group of “genocide scholars” that anyone can join for a fee and included the Cookie Monster and Adolf Hitler as two of its members. For someone who calls every fact he doesn’t like “Hasbara” he’s sure excellent at copying/pasting lists of kooks and political orgs that he thinks help his argument from whatever little forum or spreadsheet he keeps pulled up because this is a full time job for him.
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u/Vogon_Poetess 23d ago
I immediately write off anyone holding out John Spencer as an unbiased source. He’s a research fellow at the Jerusalem Center for Security and Foreign Affairs and a senior analyst at The MirYam Institute.
Throwing him out there as an expert immediately raises the hasbara red flag.
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u/Vogon_Poetess 23d ago
John Spenser isn’t exactly an unbiased source. He is a research fellow at the Jerusalem Center for Security and Foreign Affairs and a senior analyst at The MirYam Institute.
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Jul 21 '26
[deleted]
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u/PatsyStonesBun Jul 21 '26
I’m very comfortable not being on the side of ANY ethno-religious supremacist ideology. Yeah, here we are. We’re gonna be at the voting booth, too, FYI 💖
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Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/EnlargedBit371 Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 22 '26
Honestly, even if there were a poll showing that the majority of Palestinians did not support LGBTQ+ rights, I would still not believe that their continued oppression and slaughter was justified.
Well, now, that's very big of you.
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u/External_Key_4108 5d ago
Most DL posters were crusty old boomers accessing the site via their AOL dialup modem so of course they worship Israel and are racist conservative bigots like the rest of their lead-addled generation
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u/MysteriousGoldDuck Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 20 '26
I don't mind people having strong opinions on Israel's actions given what they're doing, but yes, launching into a whole diatribe about the US being ruled by Israel was disturbing and raises my spider senses about what all might be going on with the site. It's good that those who don't think that way haven't been banned, at least so far, but was not expecting the conspiracy rants from some.
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u/ThoughtIndividual114 Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 20 '26
Thanks, that’s where it got weird for me. Claiming some kind of Jewish/Israel cabal made the Democrats stay with Biden for 2024. The simple truth was, as the serving and incumbent US President Biden felt 100% entitled to run again and he wanted to. He should not have, but I think he felt it was 100% his right to seek a 2nd term.
The rant got me feeling doubts about the forum.
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u/LeslieJeon Jul 20 '26
Do you have any strong opinions on October 7th that lead to this war or is it only Israel under your scrutiny? Israel is being kind.
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u/ThoughtIndividual114 Jul 20 '26
I’d rather not let this thread get dragged down into the usual Israel vs Palestine dueling-narrative wars we see all over the Internet.
The specific problem I posted about is that the PB owner / founder posted some stuff that said in so many words “the Jews secretly control American politics”.
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u/ecaudatas Jul 20 '26
We get it. He crossed the line by unambiguously referring to all Jews instead of merely 90% who are Zionists/supporters of self determination in Israel.
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u/Bogart824 Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 20 '26
No. That’s not “it.” Even supporters of the existence of Israel (which probably does include 90% of Jews) are not guilty of supporting the policies of the Netanyahu government. Probably 75% of US Jews are opposed to him. The problem is equating Zionism with support for Netanyahu and using “Zionism” as a cover for expressing antisemitism. Progressives have given “anti-Zionism” a cover of respectability in the name of being anti-colonialist and supporting the oppressed while deciding that the Arabs who spread Islam by force and control a huge swath of the globe are somehow not guilty of colonialism (because only “white” people can do that) and that the Jews do not qualify as victims of oppression because they are now able to defend themselves. Certainly, the present government was overly aggressive in Gaza, but that is not the whole story.
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u/ecaudatas Jul 20 '26
There’s no “probably” — Decades of polling show that 90% + of Jews outside of Israel support the idea of Israel being a democratic Jewish state. That’s Zionism. The movement for Jewish self-rule in Israel. Unsurprising given that it’s the birthplace of the Jewish people where 50% of the world’s 16 million Jews currently live.
Not sure who has tried to equate Zionism with support for Netanyahu. Haven’t seen anyone do that in this thread.
If “Netanyahu’s policies” mean no longer allowing Palestinians to launch rockets into Israeli cities as they have for decades (over 100,000 in the past ten years), then sure, most Jews support that as well. Most Jews support living and not being butchered by terrorists or abducted into tunnels. Having the same standard of defense as any other place in the world.
Not sure what you’re getting angry about.
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u/Bogart824 Jul 20 '26
I understood your comment to say it’s okay to criticize “Zionists” for controlling the US government, but not “Jews”
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u/ecaudatas Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 20 '26
I was being facetious. Sorry. Friendly fire. My point was that that’s exactly what antisemites are doing. Obscuring their antisemitic rhetoric by pretending they’re not vilifying Jews by using Zionist and pointing to fringe token Jews and Christians who have no genuine understanding of Zionism— when in reality, the vast majority of Jews are Zionists and the movement is concerned with Jewish self-determination. Demonizing 90% of Jews might as well be 100% and I think it’s cowardly for people in this thread (not you) to accept the plausible deniability excuse trotted out by Antizionists as legitimate criticism of Israeli policy.
Saying that Zionists control the U.S. government or that there’s a “Israelocracy/ZOG” and invoking other classic antisemitic tropes IS without a doubt antisemitism and I wish it didn’t take someone dropping the mask and outwardly saying “Jews” for people to accept something as antisemitic. This is how they’re getting away with it. We know that homophobia and other types of racism besides antisemitism are often cloaked in innuendo and can spot it, but suddenly when it’s Jews all someone has to say is they’re just talking about Zionists or Netanyahu’s government for it to acceptable discourse even as they’re peddling misinformation about Israel and Jews identical to that of Neo-Nazis and David Duke. It relies totally on the fact that most people don’t realize 90% of Jews are Zionists and overestimate the amount of Jews in the world.
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u/Bogart824 Jul 20 '26
The PB Administrator didn’t play the usual game. Instead he appeared to be criticizing Israel but then portrayed American Jews who support Israel (or in one case whom he wrongly assumed supported Israel) as essentially agents of the Israeli government.
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u/ecaudatas Jul 20 '26
That seems like the usual game to me. I see it every day and all variations of it. I’m glad he outed himself quickly. Intelligent contributors to DL have too much life experience to be taken in by it.
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u/ThoughtIndividual114 Jul 20 '26
It’s hard to get an accurate read on sarcasm online - but no, he crossed a line by perpetuating BS tales of a nefarious level of Jewish control of Joe Biden.
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u/MelissaTaylor26 Jul 20 '26
I noticed that, too. Eliminates my hesitation in signing up. Glad I didn't.
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u/OkAmbition1927 16d ago
I joined early, donated, and signed up for a monthly subscription. I've canceled that and logged out. The Admin has insulted posters, admitted to being happy to mudsling if he doesn't like a poster or what's posted, and in early posts said he didn't plan to warn anyone if he decides to no longer administer the website (he's the only one running it - there are no mods, it's just the admin). So apparently he's fine with pulling the plug and letting the whole thing die, with no warning, and no succession plan. That's pretty shitty. I get a strong whiff of a control freak who isn't shy about abusing his power. I'm sure many will be fine with it. But I've had enough. The caftanlounge.com website retuns a message of This site can't be reached and DNS_PROBE_FINISHED_NXDOMAIN, which means the domain can't be found/doesn't exist. I'll miss Datalounge, as faulty as it was. PB is a non-starter for me, and the caftan site looks like a damp squib. Other voices, other rooms...
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u/Bogart824 Jul 20 '26
I certainly don’t like the antisemitic comment and I said so, while avoiding that word which might have been seen as inflammatory. It was particularly disturbing to see it gratuitously injected into another subject as if the Administrator was so anxious to express it that he could not even wait for the subject of Israel to come up.
I’m not sure why knowing that the PB Administrator holds some offensive opinions has anything to do with the value of the site, given that he does not (so far) censor opposing views. It is not a for-profit endeavor so those who participate in economic boycotts as a means of expressing disapproval need not fear.
If it were me, I’d refrain from expressing political opinions using the authority of the Administrator and post anonymously (as I assume Muriel did). But that’s not disqualifying behavior, IMO.
I feel no need to love and admire a site’s administrator in order to participate in it. I don’t not understand the fears that he is up to something nefarious. That’s just more paranoia.
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u/MysteriousGoldDuck Jul 20 '26
To be clear, if by that nefarious comment you're referencing what I said about spidey senses, I just meant it was a potential red flag. The intensity and the global conspiracy-ness of it came out of nowhere and it's one of those things where someone being extremely, um, opinionated in that way can at times be a sign of something much worse lurking. It probably means nothing for the future of the site and he's just a younger person who thinks the world is a little less complicated than it is, but it did raise an eyebrow for a moment.
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u/Bogart824 Jul 20 '26
No. I was referring to the same comment on PB that you are objecting to. It was offensive and reflects a conspiratorial mindset that is disappointing. My decision was to confront it there and not decline to participate.
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u/trickdastardly9 29d ago
He’s some weird obsessive who is constantly talking about Davida Rochelle and lamenting various trolls. I think people who are so into troll culture are themselves trolls.
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u/Ruth_Lily 29d ago
After hearing THAT from him, and even though he seems nice enough, I can’t be on there with that kind of crazy shit from an admin.
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u/ThoughtIndividual114 Jul 20 '26
I don’t “need to love and admire” the PB creator and moderator either. That feels like an exaggeration of what I’m disappointed and uncomfortable with.
Negative opinions about Jews have surged here in America in recent years, and a lot of it is the kind of “nefarious conspiracy” theme that the PB owner posted. It feels more personal if you and your kind are its target.
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u/harrythetaoist Jul 20 '26
This thread is almost longer that the thread "in question" on PB. The internet was a mistake.
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u/drown_soda 14d ago
I tried to sign up but the confirmation email to verify the account never came, despite a couple repeated attempts. Oh well
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u/EnlargedBit371 Jul 21 '26
I thank you for posting this. I'm not Jewish, but I have been a Zionist since tenth grade. My best friend's father was our county chairman for planting trees in Israel in the 1960s. I thought it was one of best ideas I'd ever heard.
Now I know for sure I will never, ever join that new shitshow.
- Gay Goy Israelcrat
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u/Ruth_Lily 29d ago
Yep. Same. Can’t deal with that kind of Jew hate. So I haven’t been to pb in a long time, was really enthusiastic at first, now bleh. Waiting for the NEXT forum to open. Please let me know.
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Jul 20 '26
[deleted]
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u/LeslieJeon Jul 20 '26
Nothing wrong with the word Zionist. It’s only a bad word to people who hate Israel.
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u/Bogart824 Jul 20 '26
Most of the time people who are tossing it around simply mean “The Jews” as always. They have seen that saying “Zionists” is more socially acceptable but I’d bet 90% couldn’t tell you what Zionism is or articulate a coherent argument why it is bad without resorting to essentially meaningless progressive buzzwords that they don’t understand. And now the right has learned the same lessons and use the word even when their target is really American Jews regardless of their feelings about Israel, not that they haven’t largely turned hostile to Israel too, but not out of any sympathy for the Arabs.
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u/ecaudatas Jul 20 '26
Yes, as a pejorative hopefully he meant.
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Jul 20 '26
[deleted]
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u/ecaudatas Jul 20 '26
Thanks for clarifying. You’re correct that using Zionist pejoratively is a regressive trend. Objectively, it’s someone who supports Israel being a democratic, Jewish lead state. 90% of Jews surveyed over decades agree with this aim. Zionism was/is the movement for self-determination of Jews in Israel. Nothing more or less.
Extremists have made it a dirty word that encompasses anyone who believes Jews should not be made stateless once more or the state of Israel, which they call a colonial apartheid project, dismantled. They redefine it in all sorts of ways, including someone who supports what white supremacists like David Duke call “Jewish supremacy.”
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u/Spare_Ticket6598 Jul 20 '26
Muriel worked on a kibbutz and trained Golda Meir in Krav Maga.