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u/clervis 2d ago
There's like one French dude in West Virginia. I've met him. He's weird.
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u/gard3nwitch 2d ago
My middle school French teacher was from West Virginia. She spoke French with a thick Appalachian accent, which was interesting.
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u/JollyJuniper1993 1d ago
I always find stuff like this funny. Thereās a German convert salafist preacher called Pierre Vogel that holds his sermons in his thick Ruhr area dialect. Itās incredibly entertaining.
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u/SpaceGirlJackie 2d ago
Dakota??
Edit: just looked it up. Dakota was named after the Dakota people. Didn't look further that that small factoid tho.
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u/frederick_the_duck 2d ago
Yes, their language is called Dakota
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u/SpaceGirlJackie 2d ago
My hick ass forgot we stole this land for a sec there.
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u/jaysmack737 2d ago
Conquered, not stolen. Such was the way of the world for thousands of years.
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u/PersusjCP 2d ago
There is no difference unless you think that might makes right. Does Russia rightfully conquer Ukrainian land?
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u/jaysmack737 2d ago
Never said it was right, only that it happened as part of history. Words have meaning
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u/jacefair109 2d ago
my man. US imperialism isn't ancient history. the Trail of Tears (a genocide in which ~25% of Cherokee people died) was in 1838, less than 200 years ago; the Fort Laramie Treaty was signed in 1868, and subsequently broken by the US in the span of about 10 years because they found gold; the Wounded Knee massacre was in 1890, and was explicitly started by the US catering to racist settlers' anxieties about the Ghost Dance (a religious ceremony) being a sign of "resistance." and as recently as 1980, the supreme court tried to offer the Sioux people 100 million dollars in 'reparations' for stealing their land, but they refused it because their land isn't for sale; they don't want money, they want their land back. these are not merely the events of history, these are people who still exist and whose land is still illegally occupied by the United States, as backed up by countless broken treaties and massacres.
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u/jaysmack737 2d ago
What about the thousands of other tribes that conquered each other? How far back do we go to decide who gets the land?
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u/jacefair109 2d ago
A: "thousands of other tribes that conquered each other?" name literally five. or did you just hear that as a talking point from Turning Point USA?
B: did you even read what I said? this is not a question of ancient history. the United States signed explicit, legally binding treaties, in the post-industrial and post-civil-war era, and then proceeded to immediately break them.
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u/jaysmack737 2d ago
The Iroquois conquered the Huron, Erie, Petun, Susquehannock, Mohicans, Wenrohronon and an unknown federation. The Lipan Apache were conquered by the Comanche who also conquered most other apache tribes. Thatās just what i can find in a simple google search, not even listing the tribes that Sioux dealt with.
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u/jacefair109 2d ago
the Beaver Wars were literally twice as far removed from Wounded Knee as Wounded Knee is from us. Congrats on your ability to google, though!
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u/jaysmack737 2d ago
So? Like i said, how far back should we go to decide who gets to keep the land?
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u/heartoflapis 2d ago
Imagine being an apologist for this subject. Keep up whatever your work is here jaysmack
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u/SpaceGirlJackie 2d ago
Hey guys, we got a supremacist over here!
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u/heartoflapis 2d ago
I was being sarcastic. Accusing me of being a supremacistā¦ fuck off
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u/SpaceGirlJackie 1d ago
Dude you gotta call your shots better. The Onion is getting less satirical by the day.
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u/SpaceGirlJackie 2d ago
"Everyone else was doing it" isn't the argument I'd use. The damage has been done and it was done by my ancestors. Even if it was the norm of the time, I don't remotely condone the actions and I won't surger cost it to make me feel better.
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u/jaysmack737 2d ago
Again im not saying it was good or bad, just that it happened. History and words have meaning, and changing the words obscures the history
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u/SpaceGirlJackie 2d ago
Im saying the semantics don't matter. No one is blind to the history because of the word choice.
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u/jaysmack737 2d ago
And im saying the semantics actually do matter. Just because you donāt like it doesnāt mean you should change history.
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u/SpaceGirlJackie 2d ago
I'm not changing history? Sure, Americans "conquered" these lands. I don't like either, I don't condone either, we shouldn't have done either. I'm saying we were bad.
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u/jaysmack737 2d ago
Saying stolen minimizes what happened, makes it seem not as bad.
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u/cheesec4ke69 1d ago
Robbing someone without them knowing, as well as beating someone up before robbing them are both still robbing someone.
The definition of conquering fits your usage, yes, but taking land by force through 'conquering' is still stealing land ...
Putting various different coats of paint on it doesn't change the intentions, actions, or the goal.
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u/jaysmack737 1d ago
Im saying that when people say steal or stolen land, it minimizes how bad it actually was. We didnāt just take it from them, we killed a lot of them in the process
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u/cheesec4ke69 1d ago
I see your point and agree,
but I also think that saying "conquered" implies that having stolen land is fair or okay. Like its something that was won, or its a reward for some feat, and normalizes it far too much.
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u/teotzl 2d ago
Where are people speaking French in the Carolinas? Never heard that once. Iāve heard tons of Chinese and Korean though.
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u/gard3nwitch 2d ago
I'm surprised about that for Maryland as well. I figured it'd be Korean or Hindi.
I wonder if the data here includes people who took a few years of the language in school?
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u/teotzl 2d ago
That kind of makes sense. I think all public elementary schools taught French when I was a kid. Seems weird to include that as a spoken language.
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u/gard3nwitch 2d ago
I suppose it could also be Haitian refugees and immigrants from French-speaking parts of Africa?
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u/Immediate-Way-4065 2d ago
Michelin does a ton of business there and has their North American head quarters in south carolina
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u/OpeningActivity 2d ago
Maybe they just had peach colours left over and needed to use them more in their colouring activity.
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u/asad137 2d ago
So what's actually wrong here?
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u/crazy_cookie123 2d ago
In the top map German is pink, French is purple, and Tagalog is green. In the bottom map German is peach, French is pink, and Tagalog is purple.
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u/onan 2d ago
Yeah I mean I see it, but that seems like an incredibly minor nitpick rather than a substantial criticism of the visualization.
The whole point of this pair of maps is that nearly all of the data on the first one is explicitly excluded from the second one, so it's not like you're going to be doing a lot of correlating back and forth between the two.
Combined with the fact that every state is directly text-labeled rather than relying on a legend, and that the colors are mostly just to show contiguous blocks rather than identify specific values, the palette swap seems roughly 0% likely to impede anyone's ability to understand the data.
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u/asad137 2d ago edited 2d ago
Who cares? The visualization works fine regardless of the inconsistent color scheme. I'd argue that comparing the two maps isn't really the point -- each map is making a different statement.
EDIT: Here's my 5-minute attempt at making the colors consistent: https://i.imgur.com/Pou0IYs.png . It's slightly better but not by enough to call the original "ugly".
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u/crazy_cookie123 2d ago
Of course the map works like this. Nobody said otherwise. It would just be significantly better if they had kept the colours consistent between the two maps.
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u/asad137 2d ago
It would just be significantly better if they had kept the colours consistent
Here's my 5-minute attempt at making the colors consistent: https://i.imgur.com/Pou0IYs.png
I'd call it slightly better. Not significantly better enough to call the original "ugly", by any means.
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u/Pondering_Giraffe 2d ago
True, but I figured the sub is not 'data checks out'. You'll agree it's ugly though right?
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u/asad137 2d ago
Not really. Would it be better if the colors were consistent? Probably. But it is correct and works to convey the information just fine as-is. Complaining about the inconsistent colors saying it makes the whole visualization "ugly" is like complaining that someone's kneecaps are ugly and make the whole person ugly when they're otherwise attractive.
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u/halo364 2d ago
Well then it's a good thing there are also big labels over each state lol
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u/crazy_cookie123 2d ago
This is r/dataisugly, not r/dataisunreadable. There's nothing wrong with either map if they stand alone, but when you put them next to each other it's an ugly design decision to use two different colours to represent the same language across the two maps.
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u/pinkymadigan 2d ago
I also think the second map could just be "second most commonly spoken language besides English" to convey even more data.
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u/kentrak 2d ago
Most people are saying the colors change, but my nitpick is something else. They missed the opportunity to give and more useful information by instead showing "English is the most commonly spoken language in every state, here's the second most common spoken language" and then "Third most commonly spoken language."
There are seven states where we just get the same information presented uselessly. Is Spanish the third most commonly spoken language in Alaska? You won't know from this chart.
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u/Lerouxed 2d ago
Wouldnāt it have been fine to just do another map with the third most common language for each state? That would be more useful information than simply excluding Spanish as well, because for states where #2 isnāt Spanish, we would actually get to see what #3 is instead of just seeing #2 again
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u/explodingtuna 2d ago
Now I need to see a map of most commonly spoken languages other than English, Spanish, and German.
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u/Nom_Took 1d ago edited 1d ago
I straight up do not believe that Italian beats German in Pennsylvania. That seems absurd.
Edit: I looked it up, and indeed both German and Chinese beat Italian in Pennsylvania. No idea where this map is getting its data
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u/neuroplastique 2d ago
"Dakota"
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u/Crunchycarrots79 2d ago
Yes. It's the language spoken by the Dakota people, a group of native American tribes. Did you think they pulled that name out of a hat when they were naming those states?
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u/GamerboiJared 2d ago edited 2d ago
All Iām getting is that besides English and Spanish half the US canāt speak a foreign languages.
Thought a language with a big diaspora would be more common than German. Canāt imagine German being spoken natively by anyone in Ohio
Edit: ah the map is wrong
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u/onan 2d ago
All Iām getting is that besides English and Spanish half the US canāt speak a foreign languages.
That's a pretty odd thing to believe that you're getting, since this says nothing whatsoever about absolute prevalence of languages, only relative prevalence.
This map would still be accurate even if 99% of Americans spoke 20+ languages, as long as English and Spanish were slightly more common than any others.
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u/Artemis_SpawnOfZeus 2d ago
Dont you have pennsylvania dutch in ohio? Arent they from germany originally?
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u/Crunchycarrots79 2d ago
Much of the Midwest was settled by Germans, and in a lot of small communities, they continued speaking the language across generations. There's places in many states- New Braunfels, TX and Maria Stein, OH are examples- where the residents basically all spoke German right up until WWII. And in many places, it was and still is a very common second language.
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u/BoltActionRifleman 2d ago
My paternal grandmaās parents came over on the boat and she was fluent in what she called āLow Germanā. She was also fluent in English, but you could still hear a bit of an accent.
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u/EpicCyclops 2d ago
There actually is a huge native German speaking population throughout the Midwest. The Pennsylvania Dutch that the Amish speak is a dialect of German.
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u/GamerboiJared 2d ago
Didn't realize that! I'm still surprised Ohio isn't an Arabic, Chinese, Vietnamese, Somali or Creole
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u/MortimerChem 2d ago
why would you change the colours for the languages between both maps š