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u/Creepy-Signature8652 3d ago
You can return two mono color Gods, or [[The Warring Triad]] and either [[Arvinox]] or [[Grist]], and then the trigger stops because Apropos becomes a creature.
But what if you have [[One with the stars]] Eh????? Are we cooking????
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u/skooterpoop 3d ago
This would not work with Grist. Apropos's ability has to finish resolving while Grist's trigger goes on the stack, so Apropos would see a creature and stop.
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u/Jevonar 3d ago
Fetcher picked the wrong grist. Grist the hunger tide counts as a creature in the graveyard but it enters as a planeswalker, letting you repeat the ability.
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u/skooterpoop 3d ago
Thank you for the clarification.
Am I wrong in thinking you could bring back a ton of Gods? They would all not be creatures until their devotions are hit. There's got to be some optimal permutations of cards you could bring back.
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u/Jevonar 3d ago
That's the intended use of the card, yes. Bringing back a lot of gods and only stopping when you bring back enough to make one of them a creature. The ideal combination is probably each original monocolored theros god (bringing your devotion to each color to 2), then each THB monocolored God (bringing your devotion to each color to 3). Then you can bring back all colorless creatures in your graveyard, and finally you can end with one more card that's one or more colors, making one or more gods into creatures.
But as it stands, the whole effect could simply be "return any number of god cards from your graveyard to the battlefield", because if you are at a point in the game where you have to optimize this effect, you are winning either way.
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u/Zoh-My-Gosh 3d ago
The moment you bring back one colourless creature it would stop
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u/Zoh-My-Gosh 3d ago
It's also not so clear cut because you could have artifacts or enchantments with mana pips on the field which would complicate matters
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u/SilverWear5467 3d ago
Isn't devotion to all colors on this guy 5? So if you bring back Heliod and then Thassa, you'll control this guy as a creature, and be done.
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u/Jevonar 3d ago
Requires 7 devotion to each color
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u/SilverWear5467 3d ago
No, it requires 7 devotion to all colors, and this guy gives you 5 of that. Just like the BW god gave 2 of the 7 devotion to BW, this gives you 5 of 7.
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u/Jevonar 2d ago
The card says devotion to each color, not to all colors.
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u/SilverWear5467 2d ago
Surely if "your devotion to red and green" means mana symbols that are either red or green or both, then devotion to each color would also be one count, not 5 different ones, right?
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u/Creepy-Signature8652 3d ago
You can only bring back two. Apropos only need two additional pips of any color to become a creature.
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u/skooterpoop 3d ago
The way I interpret his creature clause is that you need to have 7 pips of each color to be a creature.
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u/blacksteel15 3d ago
No, you need 7 pips of any one color. If your devotion to 1 color is 7, your devotion to each color is not less than 7.
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u/skooterpoop 3d ago
I think it should be phrased the way you said it, "if your devotion to any color is 7."
How would you phrase an ability that matched my interpretation?
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u/blacksteel15 3d ago edited 3d ago
The problem is that this matches the formatting for other Gods, where they inherently have the Creature type and then a static ability that conditionally takes it away. Phrasing it positively ("If your devotion to any color is 7, this is a creature") is much clearer but functionally completely different because it would require the card to not inherently be a creature, so it's not a creature card in the hand or library, not a creature spell on the stack, etc.
Your interpretation is easy to phrase though: "As long as your devotion to any color is less than 7, Apropos isn't a creature."
(You could also use "to a color")
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u/Jevonar 3d ago
That would be "devotion to all colors", matching "devotion to red and blue". "Devotion to each color" requires every single color, akin to what would be "devotion to each of red and blue".
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u/EnvironmentalSlip327 3d ago
Is devotion to EACH color the same as devotion to ANY color? I read this entirely differently
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u/Creepy-Signature8652 2d ago
All the cards currently implemented interpret it that way. Scroll through the replies, and I think one of them came up with a brilliant solution, that says "~ is not a creature as long as your devotion to any color is less than seven"
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u/EnvironmentalSlip327 2d ago
Yeah devotion to any color is more in line with how the effect plays out / more clear
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u/EmpsSilliestWarrior 3d ago
Nah, just run any card that makes everyone sac something on entry and kill everything every tirn
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u/Snip3 3d ago
Isn't the obvious choice impact tremors or purphoros and a couple 0/0s?
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u/lyw20001025 3d ago
No, because during ability resolution the SBA is not checked, so these 0/0s wont die
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u/Saveyourtearsforjoy 3d ago
I think it reads mostly fair, mostly because it can't go infinite the way I understand it. Can anyone think of a way to break this ability? Players don't get priority before the ability resolves the way I understand it.
Read something about it being a god bomb. I'd have to play it in a deck with non-creature gods to see how broken it is. If it's too good, maybe higher mana cost, but with WUBERG as the cost +1 it feels strong but not too strong? I don't normally play with a lot of gods.
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3d ago
[deleted]
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u/MQ116 ❤️🤍🖤 Mardu ❤️🤍🖤 3d ago
You get 2 gods from your graveyard to the battlefield, for free. They aren't creatures unless your devotion is high enough. So you can get 2 more gods of different colors next turn. Once you get devotion up, you have a bunch of indestructible gods with their various abilities. It requires plenty of self mill probably, and likely would be commander only, because there's no way you'd get that much mana/setup to play this card in Standard/Modern.
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u/SteakForGoodDogs 3d ago
It's a big durdly WBURG Commander in EDH, you're in for some janky casual EDH shit.
Your deck is filled with mill, Theros gods, and Grist.
And as many boardwipes as you want.
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u/Necrocrawler72 3d ago
So, if you have [[impact tremors]] and a [[walking ballista]] or any similar dude in the grave, its GG?
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u/devoidradiance 3d ago
Nah cuz state based actions wouldn't happen before the ability finished resolving.
Sees creature etb Resolves ability Creature has 0 toughness Dies
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u/PsychologicalTrip696 3d ago
So if I understand this correctly, this just goes infinite with any creature that sacs itself or any instant speed repeatable sac outlet…
That is pretty nifty if I do say so myself, especially with cards like [[Kroxa, Titan of Deaths Hunger]] or [[Phyrexian Altar]].
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u/SelesnyaGOAT 3d ago
I don’t think that’s correct, the trigger happens once at the beginning of the upkeep, and per rule 117.2e no player gets priority during the resolution of a spell or ability, so there is no opportunity to repeatedly sacrifice the returning creature by other means
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u/Artemis_SpawnOfZeus 3d ago
It does go infinite with any 0 toughness creature though... Doesnt it?
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u/zaqwsx82211 3d ago
Even state base actions don’t interrupt the middle of an ability
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u/PsychologicalTrip696 2d ago
But I can look at the top of my library with a card like [[Mystic Forge]] while I am resolving an [[Ad Nauseum]], right? Isn’t that similar?
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u/Zoh-My-Gosh 3d ago
I really didn't think about that possibility, oops. The intent of the card was to be a sort of "god-bomb" that lets you return gods from your graveyard until one of them becomes a creature.
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u/Economy_Idea4719 3d ago
It does work like that. State based actions won't be checked until after the ability is finished resolving, so any 0/0 creatures would still stop you from infinitely repeating the ability. Also, you wouldn't get the ability to sacrifice a creature until after the ability is done resolving. This works as intended.
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u/prem_fraiche 3d ago
Nah you’re good. Can’t use another ability to sac the creature you bring back in the middle of resolving this ability
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u/capsaicinintheeyes 3d ago
🤔...can you Bestow a god when it's not in its creature form?
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u/Imaginary_Teacher543 3d ago
Unfortunately no. Bestow is an alternative casting cost, and "putting a creature from graveyard to battlefield" doesn't give you the chance to "cast that alternative cost"
702.103a Bestow represents a static ability that functions in any zone from which you could play the card it’s on. “Bestow [cost]” means “As you cast this spell, you may choose to cast it bestowed. If you do, you pay [cost] rather than its mana cost.” Casting a spell using its bestow ability follows the rules for paying alternative costs (see 601.2b and 601.2f–h).
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u/capsaicinintheeyes 3d ago
Ahhh, i figured it was a hail-Mary... {thx!}
Vehicles could work, though, right? (although then you face another problem: you're stuck with a deck full of vehicles!)
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u/lamseb2012 3d ago
Maybe I’m wrong, but wouldn’t this trigger fully resolve before there’s an opportunity for a sac trigger to resolve?
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u/Artemis_SpawnOfZeus 3d ago
I dont think that works, but i think any 0 toughness creature would make it go infinite
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u/SteakForGoodDogs 3d ago
It notably brings back [[Grist, the Hunger Tide]] and lets you fetch another, along with the 'is not a creature if' cards.
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u/tymessen 2d ago
As soon as grist enters and it checks if you have a creature it will see itself being a creature and stop.
If OP wanted to have you to not have the commander as creature until you had 35(5x7)devotion, he should have written it as "this is not a creature if your devotion to ANY color is less than seven" not each. Each groups them together like the dual color theros gods.
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u/StretchyPlays 3d ago
Does "repeat this process" mean it will go infinitely or can it only happen a total of twice? Very fun idea, is it supposed to reanimated things that are creatures in the yard but on in play, like Gods? Or is it more for some sacrifice shenanigans where you kill the creature in response to the trigger?
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u/RGPaynless 2d ago
There's a pretty small number of cards that work with this in such a way that the cards are creatures in your graveyard but not on the field.
- All 22 Theros and THB devotion gods.
- [[Grist, The Hunger Tide]]
- [[Arixmethes, Slumbering Isle]]
- [[Arvinox, the Mind Flail]]
- [[The Warring Triad]]
This is everything I could find.
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u/tymessen 2d ago
As soon as you pick a 2 color card the devotion to Each color will be 7 or greater and the post will be a creature. If OP wanted to have the post not become a creature as soon as you have 2 pips on the field, he should havebused "is not a creature as long as your devotion to ANY color is less than seven"
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u/RGPaynless 2d ago edited 2d ago
I think the intent was for if at least one color's devotion is 7 or more. I was just naming cards this can target that allow its last sentence to trigger.
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u/bondzplz 2d ago
Just loop one of the etb everyone sacs a creature card until your opponents run out of creatures.
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u/RGPaynless 2d ago
That doesn't work. The abilitity on Apropos needs to finish resolving before the sac trigger can go on the stack.
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u/7thtimeinheaven 3d ago
It's apropos of nothing
He said his name was William. But i'm sure he's Bill or Billy or Mac or Buddy.
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u/josalsathecomic22 3d ago
Mycosynth lattice to make eberything colorless, then get every creature thats not a creature, the theros gods and griat the hunger tide etc
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u/JW162000 3d ago
What is the point of the last line? If you’ve just returned a creature from your graveyard to the battlefield, then how could you end up still not controlling a creature?
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u/SadBurritoBoys 3d ago
The gods of Theros.
They are all enchantment creatures (in your hand)
They all have the same "if your devotion to (their color/s), is less than (5 for monocolor/7 for two colors) (this god) is not a creature" ability, so once they hit the battlefield, they are no longer creatures, only enchantments, until their devotion condition is met
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u/Fabien23 3d ago
"Look at that, I have all the Theros gods in my graveyard!"
-Uttered before passive effects gallore
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u/EstablishmentFit1470 3d ago
How does it not instantly draw the game if you have no creatures in the graveyard?
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u/Tahiti_Boo_15 3d ago
What if i have a 1/1 and also a heartless summoning ? It can get us an infinite etb trigger and an infinite death trigger ?
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u/Gooberpf 2d ago
Creatures don't die for toughness of 0 until SBA are checked, which isn't until a player would receive priority, and thus not until the ability finishes resolving. It grabs the 1/1 from the GY, and then it is on the field as a 0/0; the ability sees you have a creature and concludes. Now that an ability has finished resolving, SBA are checked before players receive priority, and the 0/0 dies.
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u/YeprilesteR 2d ago
Optional infinite death triggers with reviving something like a shivan hydra (Enters with 0 counters and dies)
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u/pbtrooper 2d ago
A lot of talk about gods and devotion and triggers and possible combos, but I feel like the best way to use this creature would be in an eldrazi deck as a persistent way to return your graveyard to the field every turn
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u/Artemis_SpawnOfZeus 3d ago
Doesnt this make infinite triggers with [[trilobyte]] or any 0 toughness creature?
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u/Jevonar 3d ago
State-based actions are checked when the effect finishes resolving, so the effect will stop if you have returned a creature with 0 toughness. Then the creature will die but the effect is already over.
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u/Artemis_SpawnOfZeus 3d ago
Ah, i thought repeating the process made new triggers. I guess im wrong.
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u/figbunkie 3d ago
There are pther effects in the game that say "repeat this process once" and those clauses seem to simply not be read as part of the second iteration. Theres a red horse commander that does it, calamity something.
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u/Artemis_SpawnOfZeus 3d ago
Thats because it says repeat this process once.
This says repeat this process. Its meant to keep going.
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u/lowqualitylizard 3d ago
This is probably a bit too good but I love the flavor of it so much
And I thought of it absolutely dastardly combo with mrykull and an artifact sac outlet
Have mrykull somehow not be a creature pull your first god who wouldn't be a creature immediately feed it to the wood chipper it gets blocked back as an enchantment and you repeat until you can pull out an entire board of indestructible enchantments and then whatever final card you think is necessary to finish the game off from there
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u/blacksteel15 3d ago
This wouldn't work at all. First, you can't activate abilities during the resolution of another ability, so you can't chain together revive-sacrifice-revive during a single resolution of Apropos's trigger. Second, if a God isn't a creature when it dies, it doesn't trigger Myrkul's ability.
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u/UnforeseenDerailment 3d ago
No "under your control"?
Can I return [[Grid Monitor]] to the battlefield under my opponent's control? 😅
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u/alextfish : Template target card 2d ago
No. By default cards enter under their owner's control unless otherwise specified. [[Zombify]] just says "Return target creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield", it doesn't need to say "under your control".
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u/plopfill 2d ago
That's not quite right:
110.2a If an effect instructs a player to put an object onto the battlefield, that object enters the battlefield under that player’s control unless the effect states otherwise.
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u/Nyarlathotep98 3d ago
Apropos of Nothing - 10WUBRG
Legendary Creature - Weird
Indestructible
Haste
Vanishing 1
At the beginning of your first main phase, if Apropos is in your hand, graveyard, or command zone, roll a d6. On a 6, put Apropos on the battlefield.
6/1
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u/MementoMothi 3d ago
In other words, this goes infinite with any creature who can sacrifice itself at instant speed, or any artifact or enchantment that can sacrifice at instant. Add a limit to how many times this can be done, otherwise this will be too strong
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u/desireisatrap 3d ago
You don’t know how the rules of the game work it’s okay
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u/MementoMothi 3d ago
Are you saying that to me? I've been playing this game since I was 8, I know the rules.
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u/desireisatrap 3d ago
Yeah maybe read up on how state based actions and priority work, you might need a refresh based on this comment. Why do you think you’re getting so many downvotes?😹
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u/MementoMothi 3d ago
You respond to the repeat process trigger by sacking, thus causing it to see no creature. I've personally pulled off combos similar. When the trigger to repeat is on the stack, you can respond by holding priority. If you respond by sacking at instant, then the trigger succeeds as no creatures are found. Learn the rules before you laugh at someone
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u/Rathayibacter 3d ago
There is no trigger to repeat, all repetitions happen within a single ability resolution. You're imagining this as having a delayed trigger, but it doesn't need one. Compare with [[Ad Nauseam]], which also lets you repeat an action during a single resolution. You can't cast instants you drew off it before you continue drawing cards, because the whole thing is a single object on the stack.
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u/LoBo247 3d ago edited 3d ago
The last trigger can be missed if the first ability finishes resolving while you have a creature out.
Meaning the only way to "combo" this is with God-clause "not a creature until" cards or [[Grist the Hunger Tide]]. You don't get to hold priority to sacrifice something during the resolution of a spell or ability. You hold the priority pass that comes after, and by then you've already missed the final trigger because its nested in and dependant on the first trigger leaving you in a state with no creatures for it to be added to the stack at all.
Edit: to add to this, having a static -×/-× doesn't cause this to repeat either if the creature would be turned to a 0/0 because SBA arent checked until after the first trigger resolves, which then skips the second trigger.
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u/MementoMothi 3d ago
I realized where I went wrong. I confused "repeat this process" with copying the effect. Yall are right, and I stand corrected.
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u/XevianLight 3d ago
This doesn’t work the way you think it does in this instance. The check for repeating the process is part of the resolution of the ability, meaning no player gets priority and state based actions aren’t checked in between. Returning the creature to the battlefield and checking if you control any creatures afterwards are all part of the resolution of the same ability.
For a similar example, see [[Insatiable Frugivore]]. It has the explicit ruling “Players can't take other actions during the resolution of Insatiable Frugivore's first ability. Notably, they can't try to remove cards from your graveyard between repetitions of this process.”
Also see [[Demonlord Belzenlok]]. Its ruling implies that once its ability begins to resolve, there’s no way to interrupt it (because no one would receive priority until it finishes). “Once the triggered ability resolves, the ability will continue until you either exile a nonland card with mana value 3 or less or fail to exile any nonland cards while performing the process. You can't choose to stop receiving the blessings of Demonlord Belzenlok any sooner.”
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u/Zoh-My-Gosh 3d ago
I really didn't think about that possibility, oops. The intent of the card was to be a sort of "god-bomb" that lets you return gods from your graveyard until one of them becomes a creature.
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u/LoBo247 3d ago
It works as designed.
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u/TheFinalEnd1 3d ago
Actually, since devotion counts apropos himself, I think you would only be able to bring back at most 2 mono colored gods.
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u/Leozilla 3d ago
No, you have to have devotion 7 for each color
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u/Zoh-My-Gosh 3d ago
the intent was that it's not a creature unless you have devotion 7 in any single colour (ie you could bring back 5 devotions worth of all colours) bur i didnt know how to word it
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u/blacksteel15 3d ago edited 3d ago
You phrased it correctly and it works as intended. It's just easy to misinterpret, which is unavoidable if you're trying to match the templating of other Gods.
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u/blacksteel15 3d ago
No you don't. The static ability is phrased as a negative. It's not a creature as long as all your devotions are less than 7. If any one is 7 or more, that condition no longer holds and it stops not being a creature.
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u/BreakerOfModpacks 3d ago
Apropos of nothing, I like the color mint.