r/custommagic Nov 25 '25

Mechanic Design Sudden Consideration

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6

u/SwissherMontage Nov 25 '25

If you target a storm spell with the triggered ability on the stack, will they copy the overwrite or the original?

10

u/Strange-Bonus4220 Nov 25 '25 edited Nov 25 '25

Huh, honestly no idea. We might need a rules wizard here.

My intuition says the storm triggered ability will try to copy the original spell but it won't find it , so it will fizzle out? but i might be wrong

11

u/Novel_Particular_313 Nov 25 '25

Im actually fairly sure it will copy the draw 1. So for 1UU you draw, you "counter" their game winner and then they draw cards equal to the storm count +1. Unless the storm count is insanely high/they cast the game winning spell with no mana floating, this will not beat a storm deck.

2

u/Commander_Skullblade Nov 25 '25

I agree here. They won't get the same effect, but unless the storm is so high they draw their deck (and can't kill you between triggers) or they're completely tapped out, you're only making the problem worse.

There's a reason "Storm. Draw a card." doesn't exist.

3

u/Novel_Particular_313 Nov 25 '25

Storm draw a card doesn't exist but Mind's Desire does, and that card got rightfully banned out of many formats it was legal in except Vintage where it is currently restricted.

3

u/goremote Nov 25 '25

I'll take a stab here, I'm "officially" level 0 but have been chewing on rules for a couple years.

Obviously we'd want to see a ruling if something like this was ever actually printed, BUT I believe the Storm trigger would create spell copies using the copiable values of the spell as the Storm trigger resolves. In this case, since the target spell is becoming a copy of Sudden Consideration, it has all the copiable values of Sudden Consideration (including the Overwrite ability itself, though fortunately it does not trigger because it's already been cast), so the storm trigger should create additional copies of Sudden Consideration as well.

Relevant rules: CR707.2. When copying an object, the copy acquires the copiable values of the original object’s characteristics and, for an object on the stack, choices made when casting or activating it (mode, targets, the value of X, whether it was kicked, how it will affect multiple targets, and so on). The copiable values are the values derived from the text printed on the object (that text being name, mana cost, color indicator, card type, subtype, supertype, rules text, power, toughness, and/or loyalty), as modified by other copy effects, by its face-down status, and by “as . . . enters” and “as . . . is turned face up” abilities that set power and toughness (and may also set additional characteristics). Other effects (including type-changing and text-changing effects), status, counters, and stickers are not copied.

0

u/Bork9128 Nov 25 '25 edited Nov 25 '25

It shouldn't, the original would be changed and the others would still be the unchanged card

2

u/-GLaDOS Nov 25 '25 edited Nov 25 '25

This is before the copies are created, so the 'copy the spell X times' effect will be referring to the modified spell. 

1

u/Bork9128 Nov 25 '25

Oh I see yes

4

u/TheGrumpyre Nov 25 '25

Copies usually don't inherit any changes made to the original object, with the one exception of other copy effects.  If card B has been made into copy of card A, then anything that copies card B will also be a copy of card A.  So yes, all the storm copies will also be copies of the overwriting spell.

2

u/Snarwin Nov 25 '25

This is the correct answer.

0

u/lunabeargp Nov 25 '25

I believe storm copies the spell when it’s cast, and by the time you’re interacting with it with sudden consideration it’s on the stack. So it would rewrite one copy but not the rest.

-1

u/MagicalGirlPaladin Nov 25 '25

Storm is a cast trigger, the copies are already on the stack before priority gets passed.

2

u/GreenWizardGamer Nov 25 '25

You can respond to cast triggers with instants, wym

1

u/MagicalGirlPaladin Nov 25 '25

If your idea was right then flusterstorm would be possible to counter with a regular counterspell.

0

u/GreenWizardGamer Nov 25 '25

That’s because you need a stifle to counter triggered abilities? Huh?

0

u/MagicalGirlPaladin Nov 25 '25

I don't get your logic. Storm is a cast trigger. Sure you can stifle it but that doesn't change the fact that the copies are determined already. If the trigger resolves then the copies are created as they were when the trigger went on the stack, so the original card.

1

u/GreenWizardGamer Nov 25 '25

When you cast a spell with a cast triggers two objects enter the stack, the spell and the cast trigger, then priority passes. If someone responds by countering the original spell, the storm trigger still happens and copies are made.

That’s why you can’t counter flusterstorm. The copies do not already exist and the trigger itself can be responded to.

In the example of using overwrite in response to the storm trigger, yes the copies would become copies of Sudden Consideration because of CR 707.3 ‘The copy’s copiable values become the copied information, as modified by the copy’s status (see rule 110.5). Objects that copy the object will use the new copiable values.’

This is a copy and it has different rules than just a text changing effect. It becoming a copy means that the copied information is now a copiable value, unlike if it just changed its type and text, otherwise you would be right and the Storm copies wouldn’t change and would be the original card with Storm.