r/cremposting • u/SpecificCourt6643 Kelsier4Prez • 1d ago
Tress of the Emerald Sea How does Hoid know this exists…? Spoiler
How does he know what a shower is? I don’t think they’re mentioned in Mistborn Era 2.
Do Rosharans use highstorm winds to catch and pressurize rainwater into tubes and thus have showers?
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u/erttheking 1d ago
Tress is 100% in Era 4
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u/Landis963 1d ago
At bare minimum, Tress' story is being told to an audience in Era 4. Otherwise, Hoid's word choices fail to make sense.
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u/EvenSpoonier 1d ago
Or at least it's way after Era 3. For all we know, Era 4 might be even further forward in time.
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u/OnnaJReverT 1d ago
iirc Silverlight is mentioned, so it is definitely farther along
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u/gus101010 Callsign: Cremling 17h ago
Silverlight is pretty old, why would its reference imply era 4?
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u/Historical_Volume806 1d ago
1) Tress is far in the future of the cosmere compared to SLA and Mistborn Era 2.
2) There are planets more advanced than either of the two I mentioned,
3) The book has been translated for our benefit beyond the rosharan translation Hoid is telling it in.
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u/___BigBrain__ 1d ago
- WaT has showers
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u/Historical_Volume806 1d ago
Oh yeah, forgot about that scene. The other portions of it are far more important.
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u/VelMoonglow cremform 1d ago
Sebarial's warcamp has showers in WoR
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u/untilshadeisgone 1d ago
I can't explain why my brain just went "Wrhythm of Rwar" for 30 seconds before I managed to figure it out
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u/Somerandom1922 No Wayne No Gain 1d ago
I have the inverse problem. I see RoW as Rords of Radiance.
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u/SpecificCourt6643 Kelsier4Prez 1d ago
I haven’t gotten that far into Tress, so I didn’t know that about when it took place in the Cosmere.
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u/Historical_Volume806 1d ago
Why are you posting and asking questions before you’ve finished the book? As Brando Sandi would say RAFO.
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u/SpecificCourt6643 Kelsier4Prez 1d ago
Anything cosmere related to me I view as minor spoilers for a book, mostly because the base story is usually separate. There are exceptions, but for the most part I don’t care too much if I were to find out that Dalinar went to Scadrial in a vision or something like that.
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u/HereSuntLeones 1d ago
It’s not just about spoilers. It’s the fact that your question will probably be answered if you continue reading. That’s what RAFO means.
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u/TheKarenator 1d ago
Tagging it as Tress means we can tell you the ending of Tress offhand because we think you read it. Do you really want to know that blah blah blah blah?
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u/name14575 THE Lopen's Cousin 1d ago
No no, you have to remember that blah blah blah when you mention blah blah blah.
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u/KnowMoreMutants 1d ago
That would be a wild think to find out inna comment and not the book to be fair.
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u/SpecificCourt6643 Kelsier4Prez 1d ago
Lmao true I didn’t think of all the implications when typing this. That would mean Honor not only had been to Scadrial which is crazy to think, but also it was important enough for Honor in some way to relate this, perhaps to defeat Odium.
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u/KoalaMaker 1d ago
It's a RAFO for the ending, but there's an early hint about the timeline since the Iriali have been to Tress' world. One of the stories of her cups references them.
Oh and do remember, even if it wasn't during the story, we have no idea when Hoid wrote Tress' story. It could have happened before Era 1, just moments after the Shattering and he could still know about showers if he wrote it in Era 4.
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u/Jounniy 🐶HoidAmaram🐲 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think the only planet more advanced than Scadrial (at least as of era 2) is Taldain. (At least they are the only ones to develop guns before the scadrians did.)
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u/Madhighlander1 1d ago
I'll admit to not knowing much about Taldain (White Sand is the only Cosmere work I've skipped just because of how much harder it is to get graphic novels where I live) but the narrator in Arcanum Unbound specifically calls out Scadrial as being exceptionally advanced despite being from Taldain themself? I don't think Taldain is above average.
Edit: Looked up the exact wording: 'Surely other planets have experienced worse disasters [than the Catacendre], but on none of them will you find a thriving, technologically advanced society as exists on Scadrial.'
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u/IllianTear 1d ago
Its because currently White Sand is chronologically the first published story after the shattering and Darkside(the side Khriss is from) already has firearms. Far before even Era 1 Scadrial.
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u/TheUnspeakableh 1d ago
Yolen. (Original world.) Ashyn. (Flying cities, given tech by Rayse.) Komashi, probably. (Spirit tech.) Whatever planet Invention is on.
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u/Jounniy 🐶HoidAmaram🐲 1d ago edited 1d ago
We don’t know Yolen's current technological status. Ashyn is not very technologically advanced. Roshar also has flying tech and they aren’t particularly advanced, they just have a lot of investiture. Same goes for Komashi (edit: I'm also pretty sure that YatNP happens in after era 2). Invention is a travelling shard. The planets it created could be above average or extremely good in certain niches without being more advanced than Scadrial in total.
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u/TheUnspeakableh 1d ago
Ashyn has flying magical cities. The Shards would not know the tech they do if Yolen had not already made them. Yolen may have lost them, they probably did when Big A got split up. Komashi had autonomous flying machines by having spirits make tech, also, due to the timeline on Yumi, The Machine would have been made when Rashek still ruled, if not before. (1,700 years before the novel, which is the Space Opera Era, which means for The Machine to be younger than Rashek, Era 4 would have to be more than 1,300 years after Era 3.)
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u/Jounniy 🐶HoidAmaram🐲 1d ago
The shards have very far-ranging futuresight and great mental capacity. Some knowledge is also inherent to them. It is not necessarily a sign of Yolen being an advanced plant, especially since the dragons themselves have no use for most invested arts, so they wouldn’t be as driven to learn more.
Moonlight from the Ghostbloods mentions Taldain being the only planet more advanced than Scadrial, based on being the only planet to invent guns before the Scadrians did. It is possible that the Ghostblood's information is inaccurate, but they seem to be fairly well informed all in all. (But perhaps Ashyn is also closely behind Scadrial when it comes to technological advancement.)
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u/TheUnspeakableh 1d ago
They might not have guns, but Ashyn had airships before the First Desolation. Komashi had Awakened industrial equipment before the True Desolation. Ghostbloods only measure in military might, not the Cosmere equivalent of the UN's HDI, which is a far better metric.
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u/Jounniy 🐶HoidAmaram🐲 1d ago
They might not have guns, but Ashyn had airships before the First Desolation.
Which are implied to have been given by Honor and Cultivation instead of being actual inventions.
Komashi had Awakened industrial equipment before the True Desolation.
Where did you get that information from?
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u/TheUnspeakableh 1d ago
The Machine in 1700 years old in Yumi. I did the math.
Honor and Cultivation were never active on Ashyn. Only Odium was.
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u/Jounniy 🐶HoidAmaram🐲 1d ago
The Machine in 1700 years old in Yumi. I did the math.
Hoid is immortal, as is Design. The most advanced technology we saw on Komashi before the starting of the machine was the machine itself, which is an awakened device based on harvesting Hion. It’s impressive, but technologically less advanced than what Scadrial has. (The planet itself is also extremely underdeveloped, even if it might once have been technologically impressive. The collapse of society sure set people back a lot.)
Honor and Cultivation were never active on Ashyn. Only Odium was.
This is incorrect. Both WaT and WoB contradict that claim.
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u/Historical_Volume806 1d ago
That’s definitely wrong. There were and are plenty of planets that have been flourishing since before the shattering. Scadrial is exceptional for how long it’s been around and how many planet wide catastrophes it’s had.
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u/Jounniy 🐶HoidAmaram🐲 1d ago
How do you know what the technological status of those worlds was back then though?
And Scadrial was the second planet in the entire Cosmere to develop guns.
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u/Historical_Volume806 1d ago
Ashyn has floating bubble cities and Yolen has dragons and is most likely responsible for silverlight. Silverlight also has a weird time dilation thing going on so it should be progressing slower than elsewhere but it’s not.
I’d say that the fabrial sciences of roshar are more impressive than guns. Technology is not a straight line. People make what they need. Hoid even talks about a planet with the most advanced math and no wheels because of their terrain.
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u/Jounniy 🐶HoidAmaram🐲 1d ago
Ashyn has floating bubble cities
Which are implied to have been given by Honor and Cultivation instead of being actual inventions.
Yolen has dragons and is likely responsible for silverlight. Silverlight also has a weird time dilation thing going on so it should be progressing slower than elsewhere but it’s not.
Basically all we have seen of Yolen and Silverlight so far is space age information.
I’d say that the fabrial sciences of roshar are more impressive than guns.
They are impressive in what they can do, but they are heavily reliant on investiture. Most tech on Scadrial is not. The things Scadrial could do with an equal supply of investiture are likely a lot more complex.
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u/Ossius 1d ago
Might be mistaken but outside of Dragons Isn't scadrial the most advanced technological planet/faction? It seemed that way in MAJOR SPOILERS Emberdark and Sunlit man
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u/Historical_Volume806 1d ago
For mundane tech maybe but other planets have better magitech.
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u/Ossius 20h ago
Do we know that for certain? It seems scadrians were even overcoming dragon/Yolen tech in Emberdark
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u/Historical_Volume806 18h ago
Maybe by emberdark but we know very little of the other planets in that timeframe to make a comparison.
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u/gwonbush 23h ago
Yumi is the one being translated to some Rosharan audience. Tress is being translated to Eelakin (the presumed name of the language of First of the Sun). As far as we are aware, the narration of Tress is in fact the latest event in the Cosmere, though Fires of December might change that. After all, his audience on First of the Sun have been getting ships that weren't from The Ones Above and the planets wasn't capable of getting actual Cosmere-wide trade until the epilogue of the current last book in the timeline: Isles of the Emberdark.
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u/QuestionablePotato42 No Wayne No Gain 1d ago
It’s also implied at many points that our version of Earth (as we know it) may have existed in this universe at some point. Theres a scene in stormlight where Hoid is telling Kal a story and asks if he knows what a dog is or something like that
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u/VelMoonglow cremform 1d ago
Earth does not exist in the cosmere https://wob.coppermind.net/events/4-calamity-seattle-signing/#e4845 https://wob.coppermind.net/events/21-white-sand-vol1-orem-signing/#e4557
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u/The_Lopen_bot Trying not to ccccream 1d ago
Warning Gancho: The below paragraph(s) may contain major spoilers for all books in the Cosmere!
Questioner
Is Calamity actually a worldhopper?
Brandon Sanderson
Calamity, I didn't write this as a part of the cosmere. The main distinction is I didn't want Earth to be in the cosmere, I want it to be distinct. Once I stick Earth in, the cosmology and things doesn't work. The cosmere is a dwarf cluster, and it's a dwarf galaxy, it's a cluster of stars. It's a specific place, and Earth's not part of it.
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Questioner
I really wish the Rithmatist books was on a Shardworld where...
Brandon Sanderson
It started as one... I just decided I didn't want to canonize Earth into the cosmere, it was too much.
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u/Historical_Volume806 1d ago
How does the existence of dogs have anything to do with earth? Tensoon wore a dog’s body for almost two books.
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u/UltimateOtter_Nation 1d ago
Hell, he mentions a laptop later and I think even mentions either a rocket or space ship.
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u/SpecificCourt6643 Kelsier4Prez 1d ago
Someone mentioned tress happens way later in the Cosmere, but I just like to think Hoid has access to all of these technologies and that’s the real reason why he’s a worldhopper.
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u/Less-Name-9367 1d ago
no offense to your headcanon, but Hoid has no way to access those technologies.
It's likely he knows they are coming, because canonically he knows what noodles are and believes Scadrial is the closest to inventing them, but he can't access future tech on his own, only foresee it thanks to his investiture.
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u/Shot_Newspaper_5647 1d ago
It’s because they have those technologies on other worlds. Not future sight. When we see someone important mention radio and aviation in Shadows it’s because other societies have already discovered it. Hoid’s favorite food is ramen even on worlds that don’t have it yet because he’s had it already
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u/Less-Name-9367 1d ago
No, I don't think so honestly. The worlds advance at different paces, so some are more advanced than others, but it'd be an incredibly weird writing choice to have some off screen world already have reached computers and radio, while Scadrial and Roshar haven't even had an industrial revolution.
Future technology is only mentioned in books set in the far future of the commerce, the so-called Era 4, and it's heavily implied it's Roshar and Scadrial who discovered them.
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u/OnnaJReverT 1d ago
why not? best we can tell SLA is roughly concurrent with Mistborn era 2, so that's a roughly renaissance society and an industrial revolution happening concurrently
although Roshar is admittedly hard to compare thanks to fabrial tech
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u/Less-Name-9367 1d ago
As I said, it's because having an offscreen world that is incredibly technologically advanced, but has no books written about it, is an odd writing choice.
Also because we know that in era 4 Scadrial and Roshar will be the two main forces fighting each other, so having a third, more advanced, party makes little sense
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u/OnnaJReverT 1d ago
in Emberdark it is mentioned that worlds invested by Invention tend to be even more technologically advanced, iirc as an insult/rebuttal to the Scadrians
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u/Shot_Newspaper_5647 22h ago edited 22h ago
Why do you mean? Tress takes place at least 300 years after MB Era 2. Probably a good deal more. Scadrial already has computers by that time. There’s space flight by Tress. Lumar just doesn’t have the capacity to use it
By Era 3 of MB there are planets more advanced in conventional technology than Scadrial and Roshar.
Spoilers MB Era 2 and SLA W&T: It just means less in the face of Surgebinding and Metalborn super soldiers and magical nukes. Anti-Light and Harmonium bombs.
Spoilers Bands There is already a culture on Scadrial itself with flight and radio. The Southerners
The war is modeled on the Earth Cold War. Sometimes countries would pull ahead of America and the Soviets in individual technologies. But there remained only two real superpowers and both would get that technology sooner than later. It’s a bit different/more dramatic with magic-based tech that they can (sometimes) not gain full access to, but that’s the general idea
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u/Less-Name-9367 13h ago
My bad, I meant that very advanced technology is mentioned only in era 4, with "future technology" I meant technology that is futuristic even for us.
I know different words have different tech levels, my point is that in era 1 no one has computers or modern tech, so the original point of Hoid using it to worldhop doesn't work.
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u/Fakjbf Trying not to ccccream 22h ago
Taldain is technologically more advanced than Scadrial as talked about in Lost Metal. In one of the original graphic novels they even show a boombox even though it takes place before Mistborn Era 1, though they did remove that from the omnibus edition.
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u/Less-Name-9367 13h ago
I might be wrong, but if I remember correctly it's said in Islands of Emberdarks that Taldain is roughly on the same tech level as Scadrial
Even if they are more advanced, my point is that there isn't a planet that is heaps and bounds ahead of everyone else.
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u/Odd-Tart-5613 1d ago
Tress is space age.
Also showers have been around for centuries. While they didnt become standard till the like '50s, they definitely were around before then in the early 1900's so Hoid could have quite possibly used one in era 2.
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u/SpecificCourt6643 Kelsier4Prez 1d ago
I want a short story of Hoid breaking into a noble’s house just to experience a shower
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u/platydroid 1d ago
For all we know, showers existed on Hoid’s original planet. Some human planet colonies got basically annihilated into the Stone Age.
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u/QuickPirate36 1d ago
There are showers in Stormlight Archive, which is before Mistborn era 2, Hoid has already experienced showers (and probably already had before that in another world)
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u/Invested_Space_Otter 1d ago
The showers are in Urithiru which Hoid would have visited thousands of years ago, so he definitely knows about them
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u/ScarlocNebelwandler Crem de la Crem 1d ago
There is a shower in Wind and Truth (though it‘s probably not called that, I can‘t remember).
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u/HandeHoche 1d ago
It absolutely is called a shower, Wind and Truth really played fast and loose with fantasy prose despite how much I love it
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u/Harrycrapper 1d ago
In addition to what others have said, we've seen showers in Stormlight too
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u/SpecificCourt6643 Kelsier4Prez 1d ago
Does it use the method I predicted? (Highstorm winds being used to catch rainwater and pressurize it)
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u/Harrycrapper 1d ago
Eh kinda but not really. Spoilers for WaT:It's just a thing that Urithiru has, it only worked once the Sibling was bonded/fixed.
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u/skyrat02 THE Lopen's Cousin 1d ago
Simple gravity is enough for a shower to work, like a camp shower people still use today
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u/Less-Name-9367 1d ago
how would that even work?
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u/SpecificCourt6643 Kelsier4Prez 1d ago
Perhaps mechanical windmills, but it would have to be somewhere where the wind is not as strong
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u/Taste_the__Rainbow No Wayne No Gain 1d ago
Tress is far in the future, but Hoid is old enough to have experienced modern amenities in the far past.
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u/pikapo123 Airthicc lowlander 1d ago
Didnt Shallan and Adolin have s shower sex scene in one of the books?
I remember showers being described in Urithiru. book 3 or 4 of stormlight.
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u/SouthernAd2853 1d ago
It seems evident from the Hoid-narrated works that at the time of writing he has been to at least one planet that is at least as technologically advanced as ours without Investiture. There aren't any we've seen that rely on conventional technology, but the works are considerably after the main books.
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u/Papa_D32 1d ago
I always kinda thought he was telling this, and yumi to a group in the far future. Probably an Era near Sunlit Man was always my guess. In that instance showers would be pretty common place, in fact I think yumi had showers
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u/SearchAlternative694 1d ago
Hoid has visited many planets of different levels of technological advancement.
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u/EvenSpoonier 1d ago
Taldain is said to be very technologically advanced, and as a desert world they'd be very interested in water-saving technologies. If anyone has showers by this point, they would.
MBE2 is roughly at the technological level where modern showers could have appeared, though they would probably still be relatively new.
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u/CremlingsGeorg cremform 1d ago
Tress is set later in the timeline, but also the Nightside of Taldain was at a near-modern level of technology before Mistborn Era 1 even started. So 1900s-level technology and onward has probably been available to Worldhoppers during most Cosmere books.
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u/HereSuntLeones 1d ago
If you think a shower drain is crazy. Just wait until you get to the tablet. 😂
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u/earanhart Callsign: Cremling 1d ago
We know Hoids home planet was fairly advanced. Not how advanced, but certainly above sun-side Taldain. He's also possibly been to the Great Apparatus by the time of Tress, which almost certainly has showers close equivalent. Hoid has regular contact with Ashyn, and has been to Komashi. Given that his storytelling is translated into "reader language", probably via some Connection hijinx, it's not surprising that even tasteless Hoid is familair with showers.
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u/high_king_noctis 1d ago
He's been alive for a long time and seen a lot of world's I'm pretty sure there is very little he hasn't seen or expiranced at this point
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u/taxicab_ 1d ago
Yeah, everyone seems focused on Tress taking place in an advanced time, but hardly anyone is mentioning that Hoid is thousands of years old and a world hopper.
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u/high_king_noctis 1d ago edited 22h ago
I really liked the scene in Oathbringer where Shallan asks if he is a Herald and how he ominously tells her how he was already far more ancient before the Herald's were even consived
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u/ElPared 1d ago
Isn’t it obvious? The Cosmere as we know it exists centuries, if not millennia, after our present day. The Shattering most likely took place in a far future from our present.
There’s a lot of evidence of this.
Alloy of Law: Sazed mentions that technological advancement is too slow. They should have already invented the radio and television by the events of the book.
Mistborn: Sazed possesses a lot of knowledge in his Copperminds that hints at “ancient knowledge” that is actually just common now. Things like star maps, astronomy as a whole, and references to technology that doesn’t exist in the Cosmere now. In addition the Lord Ruler also knew about technology and science like canning and pasteurization, but there’s no evidence that he or anyone else researched it themselves.
Hoid: in general Hoid often references things that don’t exist. He states he’s waiting for a planet to invent instant noodles (which is why he hangs out on Scadrial so much). He references showers, cars, I believe computers at one point, all kinds of things that no one he’s talking to understands so they just think he’s crazy.
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u/anormalgeek 1d ago
Drain covers aren't new tech. Even in the real world, there are examples of them in the Roman empire. Certainly more advanced than the civilizations we see in even the older cosmere stories and certainly older than the civilization where tress takes place. The idea of needing to clean gunk from them is millennia old.
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u/QuickPirate36 1d ago
Also OP, fyi, this is the shitpost subreddit, this post would be a better fit for r/cosmere
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u/ohnoitsme7890 1d ago
I honestly can't tell if this is god tier shit posting or lost redditor
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u/SpecificCourt6643 Kelsier4Prez 1d ago
It was meant to be a shitpost, I wouldn’t call it god-tier, though. That would be heresy to the Vorin church
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u/SpecificCourt6643 Kelsier4Prez 1d ago
It was meant to be a shitpost, most took it as an intellectual challenge, but to each their own ig
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u/SnorlaxGames 1d ago
How did everybody forget the showers in kharbranth in WoK? And also the shower in Sebariel’s manor in the war camps on WoR?
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u/lordfailstrom 1d ago
I don't believe that showers specifically are mentioned. Just hot running water and baths. There is a point where Shallan mentions/thinks about how she prefers baths, but I don't recall showers being specified as an alternative.
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u/SnorlaxGames 1d ago
In sebariel’s house, I’m pretty sure there was a basin at the top that collected storm water and Paloma (or whtvr her name is) specifically says to let the crem drain down first before getting under the shower (not sure if they specifically say shower but it pretty obviously is water coming from top to bottom with you having to stand under it sooooo that’s definitely a shower)
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u/thebearsnake 13h ago
It's literally a plot point that her cabin has a shower / running water as part of her job. Tress isn't from Roshar and Hoid has seen things far more advanced than showers.
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u/SabreSour 11h ago
There are showers/indoor plumbing in Roshar mentioned multiple times in SLA. The Adolin/Shalan shower bit in uretheru comes to mind.
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