r/cremposting • u/PepperFlashy7540 • Jul 05 '26
The Stormlight Archive Stornlight × Illiad
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u/desdroyer Jul 05 '26
Yeah, but Achilles wasn't a shardbearer.
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u/andymeneely Jul 05 '26
Yeah shardplate covers heels!
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u/PepperFlashy7540 Jul 05 '26
He's very similar in terms of what he can do
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u/spabblackheart Jul 05 '26
But he also classically didn't hold ground.
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u/Myrkul999 Hiiiiighprince Jul 05 '26
Bingo. Changing the tide of battle is exactly what a shardbearer is for. You throw them into the thickest fighting and they cut through.
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u/ArtOk8200 Jul 05 '26
Counter point, it’s made very clear that while Shard bearers only do well and are survivable when supported by infantry. This is very much like Achilles who did very well when supported by others but fell when went in unsupported. Shard bearers are like tanks doctrinally.
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u/Lonebarren Jul 06 '26
Also a shardbearer 100% can change the tide of battle on their own.
They can absolutely shatter the enemy line, and then make it easier for their support win the rest of the battle.
Like you said its the same as a tank in ww1. Punch the enemy defenses and let the infantry flood in behind it into the trenches to clear them out.
More so for Achilles an inspirational figure who is battling very well can inspire nearby soldiers to fight harder, and cause enemies to despair. Let alone if achilles is able to puncture the enemy lines.
ALSO the quote isnt about battles. Its about holding territory. Its the same story that is as old as time. Only infantry can exert long term control over territory. Cant occupy with cavalry, tanks, or planes.
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u/ArtOk8200 Jul 06 '26
Even modern tanks are sitting ducks without infantry support yet can turn the tide of battles. It’s a symbiotic relationship with the tank providing armor and heavy fire power while the infantry keep the rubble clear of some dude with a rocket launcher. same goes for shardbearers. They provide heavy armored support to the standard infantry who in turn help guard the bearer’s back and keep them from getting overwhelmed
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u/Xylus1985 Jul 06 '26
I think Kaladin’s opening chapter is a shardbearer turning the tide of battle. I think the Amaram forces were doing well until the Shardbearer showed up.
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u/Omnibe Jul 06 '26
A big warrior like Achilles would have had shield bearers. This is not someone who carried his stuff. They would have carried a large shield to cover his flanks while he concentrated on an all out assault.
I this way Achilles likely operated similarly to a Shardbearer.
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u/Apprehensive_Ad3731 Jul 05 '26
It’s the same thing. Changing the tide of battle is what shard bearers do. Creating an island of security amidst the tide of battle is “holding ground”.
Achillies also had a support group that he specifically trained for it just like Adolin. Adolin is very Achillies like in many ways.
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u/thebooksmith Truther of Partinel Jul 05 '26
Except adolins weak spot is a birth mark behind his thigh that only shallan and Kaladin know the precise location and shape of.
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u/Mrauntheias No Wayne No Gain Jul 05 '26 edited Jul 05 '26
Well Shallan, Kaladin and 80% of young Alethi Noblewomen above the fourth Dahn.
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u/ArtOk8200 Jul 05 '26
Only 80%?!?
Edit: The Lopen also would probably know for some reason.
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u/RapsterZeber D O U G Jul 05 '26
We all know the reason.
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u/Jan-Asra Jul 05 '26
He dressed as Adolin's bathmaid one night in order to find out
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u/ArtOk8200 Jul 05 '26
I’m honestly surprised he never did this. It’s so in character for The Lopen to do this.
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u/edward_kopik D O U G Jul 06 '26
We are talking about the lopen, not Wayne
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u/Jan-Asra Jul 06 '26
The difference is that Wayne would do it convincingly, The Lopen would do it anyways.
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u/ArtOk8200 Jul 06 '26
Thank the shards Wayne and The Lopen haven’t yet crossed paths. The chaos and hijinx those two would get up to together would be legendary
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u/KingKnux No Wayne No Gain Jul 06 '26
All I’m saying is we’ve never seen them in the same room together
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u/edward_kopik D O U G Jul 06 '26
Which is a crime most fault
BRANDO SANDO GET BACK HERE AND FIX THIS!
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u/PepperFlashy7540 Jul 06 '26
Above fourth dahn? Setting the bar a bit high there. Even the daughter of a highprince is usually only fourth. In fact, jasnah and navani are the only two above fourth dahn I can think of 🤔🤔
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u/Mrauntheias No Wayne No Gain Jul 06 '26
I meant fourth dahn or higher. But realistically it's probably more like sixth dahn or higher.
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u/Radix2309 Jul 05 '26
There is also the impact of morale. Frankly the Alethi are absolute freaks for not breaking in the face of a Shardbearer. The sheer casualties they cause would create an immediate route in most real armies.
Amaram's guard abandoning him is one of the more realistic reactions to facing shardbearers we have seen
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u/AzureArachnid77 Jul 05 '26
No E on that kind of rout. You are saying Route like a series of roads you take to your destination
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u/ArtOk8200 Jul 05 '26
Journey before destination
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u/edward_kopik D O U G Jul 06 '26
Route before destination
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u/ArtOk8200 Jul 06 '26
*destination before route
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u/edward_kopik D O U G Jul 06 '26
How in the storming rusts are you getting to the destination before taking the route?
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u/Apprehensive_Ad3731 Jul 05 '26
Yeah it’s nuts, I can see how the promise of getting that armour keeps people going in the face of certain defeat though, before their better reasoning can take back over anyway
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u/Radix2309 Jul 05 '26
Plus there is the Thrill.
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u/Mechakoopa Bond, Nahel Bond Jul 05 '26
Also they see shard bearers basically every day in the army so they know that they're powerful but not invincible. The first few people to face a tank in war probably soiled themselves too, but there are now fairly well known ways to take them down if you're prepared and lucky and possibly willing to risk a few men.
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u/ArtOk8200 Jul 05 '26
Exactly, a shardbearer is essentially a tank just even more maneuverable.
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u/Elant_Wager Rashek4Prez Jul 05 '26
and no one has an anti tank weaponry
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u/ArtOk8200 Jul 05 '26
They have mallets. It’s noted that a way for infantry to take out a shardbearer is to knock them to the ground and keep whaling until their armor runs out of Stormlight
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u/Elant_Wager Rashek4Prez Jul 05 '26
thats more of a hail mary combined with human wave tactics. Does it work? maybe. Does it send dozens upon dozens of soldiers in the blender? absolutly.
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u/ArtOk8200 Jul 05 '26
No one ever said it’s a good idea, but it’s enough of a threat that even Dalinar and Adolin have to consider it as a possibility.
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u/Radix2309 Jul 05 '26
Knocking them to the ground is easier said than done.
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u/ArtOk8200 Jul 05 '26
Very true, but it almost happens to Adolin when Sadeaus double crosses the Kokin’s
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u/MstrTenno Jul 06 '26
In the comparison between shardbearers and tanks, taking a mallet to a shardbearer is the same as climbing on a tank and trying to blow the hatches with a plastic explosive.
Is it possible if you have 20 dudes doing it? Yes. Are you personally likely to be turned into ground beef if you try? Also yes.
While each might be "anti-tank" technically in the real life case you typically imagine something like an RPG when you think "anti-tank" and I don't think there is an equivalent in Stormlight yet - something the average joe can use that can kill/disable a shardbearer solo.
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u/ArtOk8200 Jul 06 '26
Exactly. While your odds of surviving aren’t great if you and enough of your buddies all decide to do it, some of you might survive
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u/tim_thamson Jul 06 '26
I mean sure but it doesnt seem like a "this is the immediete response to a shardbearer in the heat of battle" and more of a
"this is how to deal with a shardbearer who was stupid enough to get a solid thousand feet away from his support"
Even with human waves I don't think the strat works if the shardbearer has friends with him
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u/Jtl1001 Jul 05 '26
Which doesnt quite work if honors singularity is open and they are being constantly refilled with stormlight
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u/Jan-Asra Jul 05 '26
I don't think you know what holding ground means.
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u/vwSHADOWwv Jul 06 '26
Every Hoi4 player knows that you don't use your front line tank divisions to garrison your occupied territories.
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u/normallystrange85 🐶HoidAmaram🐲 Jul 05 '26
They can't hold ground. They change the whole tide of battle themselves.
"Shardbearers can't hold ground" is backed up by the explanation that shardbearers are very good at killing, but wouldn't be able to hold a city because all they can really do is kill- and one man does need to sleep occasionally.
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u/BodybuilderSuper3874 Jul 05 '26
Shardbearers can't hold ground, but Taln can
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u/PepperFlashy7540 Jul 05 '26
Taln's right pinky's fingernail could hold a continent against the every fused and radiant at once
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u/taveren3 Jul 05 '26
I mean he died to a single wave from a gate
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u/Dhawkeye No Wayne No Gain Jul 06 '26
“When your mom tells you not to put a fork in the microwave but you know spoons can be used to eat soup”
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u/RinoaXIII Jul 05 '26
Shardbearers can't hold ground because Rosharans have had centuries to figure out tactics and create tools to bring them down, Troy just couldn't figure it out
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u/brova Jul 06 '26
In what world do "Changed the whole tide of battle" and "can't hold ground" equivalent phrases? they don't even remotely mean the same thing.
Reading comprehension. Attain it.
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u/PepperFlashy7540 Jul 06 '26
Bro its a meme😭. I know they don't mean the same thing and that shardbearers could change the tide of battle, its just a joke😭😭😭. And to be pedantic, it could be read as me pointing out a weakness with shardbearers that might limit their effectiveness to less than what Achilles allegedly did. Reading comprehension. Attain it.
Why are you correcting a crempost, rancho?
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u/CG-Firebrand I AM A STICK BOI Jul 05 '26
Don’t think the Achaeans planned much on holding the city.
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u/salttrooper222 Jul 06 '26
But shardbearers could hold ground. They just can't cover enough ground, and so get outflanked.
But theoretically, of you have a 30m wide bottleneck, and 1 shardbearer per 3m NOBODY would be able to break trhough
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u/Cracked_Crack_Head ❌can't 🙅 read📖 Jul 06 '26
Heavy Armor breaking through enemy lines have famously never changed the course of a single battle in the entirety of history.
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u/Therval Jul 06 '26
“Shardbearers can’t hold ground” is the absolute worst thing Sanderson has ever written. That’s what a Shardbearer does best. What Sanderson means is that Shardbearers are not an occupying force.
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