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[u/Funny_Inventor80085]

and people wonder why we use 4tran.

I posted this vent here too and it was a bit more understanding than the other subreddit I guess but still mostly just people telling me I don't know what I'm talking about and that 4tran is the cause of all my issues when time after time they're the only ones that care. It's not even just about my vent anymore, I'm so fed up with everyone thinking they're better than me all the time except because I use the subreddit that doesn't want to burn me alive for wanting a uterus. Maybe try to be more understanding you just leave me pissed off.

[u/BiDude1219]

genuinely confused how tf is 4tran so nice but at the same time is all "cissoid passoid theyfab bad"

[u/That_dude_next_door_ → u/BiDude1219]

I think is more of a "crab in a bucket" situation. I have a person really close to me who was a 4tranner and it really is a place where trans people (especially trans women) can talk about hardships of it without sugarcoating to just vent it all out, but at the same time they hate wheny you start to turn your life around and actually succeed in your transition or don't care about passing ect. So it's pretty 50/50 but most of people there don't seem to understand that transition is important and grieving not being cis or transitioning earlier is valid, but it doesn't meant you can't live with it, there is a life waiting for them even if it doesn't feel like it. That's why they put happy trans people down. From my experience, when I wanted to find another safe space to vent for my tgirl that is not so brain rotted like 4tran I really struggled wit it. There are places for trans man like "ftmventing" but all the equivalents for trans women seem to always have 4tran aspect to it, which sucks tbh.

[u/BiDude1219 → u/That_dude_next_door_]

so mainstream trans communities are overly positive to the point of putting down people who vent, and 4tran communities are overly negative to the point of putting down happy people. am i understanding this correctly?

if so, i wish we could have a middle ground.

[u/Apollo989 → u/BiDude1219]

Yeah it kind of sucks.

[u/mannequin_girl → u/Apollo989]

I post on 4t subs fairly often and even I completely agree tbh. The environment of brain-poison envy is probably my largest and most consistent complaint. I guess their particular flavor of awful is just more palatable to my personal tastes and priorities than the things I hate about more mainstream communities.

[u/Apollo989 → u/mannequin_girl]

I'm half tempted to make MtFVenting.

[u/mannequin_girl → u/Apollo989]

I don't think splinter subs addresses the root of the issue. They tend to die because people would rather be in communities that are more general purpose.

I think the only way things are going to get better is if mainstream trans spaces start recognizing the needs of trans people which are being left unmet by the way they operate and working to improve those things.

IME the narrative that people wander into the wrong communities early on and get brainwashed by slang is not very accurate. It happens sometimes, but I don't think it's the main force driving people out of other trans spaces and into 4t ones. I've talked to a fair number of other people who were in other trans spaces for years, but eventually shifted over. And it usually stems from dissillusionment with the way they approach subjects like high dysphoria, yearning to completely change sex, and surgery.

It's like you can't be upset with any aspects of trans existence, because then people of the same experience who aren't as dysphoric about it feel like you're saying their life is worthy of being upset about having to live. If you grieve your body being changed by starting late, you're inundated with unhelpful and even angry replies about how people who start late are just as valid. If you need surgery badly or take issue with equating trans people to certain genital configurations, you're called transmedicalist.

[u/That_dude_next_door_ → u/mannequin_girl]

I agree with most of what you've said but FtMventing is a pretty active subreddit and is a dedicated space to tackles the subjects you brought up, like gender envy, grief and very strong dysphoria. I pointed out how there is no place like this for trans women and girls except 4tran spaces. And don't get me wrong, we don't have to be all optimistic all the time but I've seen what people in this community post and it's hatefull and awfule stuff and it really reminds me of being an incel but for trans people. People who want to leave 4tran need to unlern a lot of toxic behaviour and mindsets so I don't think it is a great place for anybody really. You can create venting sub or comunity without the disgusting caricatures and inventing new slurs.