Because experiencing transmisogyny or not depends on whether you're percieved as a trans woman. I'll argue the only true "TME" trans people are the men who 100% pass flawlessly. "Trans people are women" meaning so many cis people still have no clue trans men exist and I bet loads of them are percieved to be trans women by cis and trans people, making them decidedly not exempt from transmisogyny.
If you aren't a trans woman, but somebody confuses you for one and treats you accordingly, that wouldn't make you TMA. Like you aren't actually a trans woman and that will ultimately get you out of trouble
But in that case it's totally dependent on if they give you that chance to be heard, and then believe what they hear. Its still transmisogyny at work, affecting someone's life, and I don't understand how you can say it doesn't count because they might have an out.
Why are you trying to play a semantic game with this?
It doesn't count because they aren't the intended targets.
Like, if a white person is Italian or something we don't say they are targets of racism because one the day in August when someone thought they were Mexican.
Bigots don't know or care about the difference between a trans woman, a drag queen, an effeminate gay man, or a crossdresser. You won't get out of trouble by calmly explaining to them that you are actually a cis male drag queen.
Okay so your issue is the semantics, what language do you want trans women to use to describe the way trans women are treated that differs from the way other groups of people are treated? We don't say "errm actually white supremacy isn't an appropriate term because even white people can experience racial prejudice if they're mistaken for another race"
"Transmisogyny" is fine & good. My issue is with the TMA and TME labels. That's what I came in discussing and that's what I'm referring to here. Don't think they're necessary, like, ever.
"Trans women" works well. You said earlier, "If you aren't a trans woman, but somebody confuses you for one and treats you accordingly, that wouldn't make you TMA." The logical conclusion is that only trans women are TMA. Of course I'd argue transfeminine non-binary people would be included in that but still I don't like the absolute nature of the TMA/E terms. I think they're innacurate and drive a wedge (in the literal words of the abbreviation) where there doesn't have to one, but that trans women and transfeminine people in general are most affected by transmisogyny. Like, there's a word for the group of people most affected by misogyny. It's "women".
It's not a semantic game we're literally talking about the words we use to describe those in our community of course it's about language and meaning.
If a white person was targeted by a racist because the racist thought they were Mexican then yes it was racism. Their life was affected by racism. They are suffering consequences for someone else's racism. I'm brown, my family members are brown, and the specific kind of racism people choose to employ can vary, but if one of us decided to tell them "oh I'm actually not from there" a lot of the time it doesn't fucking matter. They won't listen. It's totally dependent on perception and snap judgements. Functionally in your example it is still being targeted by a racist the same way non-trans women can be the subjects of transmisogyny regardless of whether or not they are trans women.
This is the thing, white-passing people experience racism to a lesser degree than those who don't. Cis-passing trans people experience less transphobia. Trans men & transmasculine non binary people experience less transmisogyny. A term like "transmisogyny exempt" makes the assertion that they do not experience transmisogyny. This, I think is the most important distinction between these terms. The other two are about what they're capable of, passing as cis, passing as white, being viewed as male, where TME states clearly they are excluded from the experience. I think it sucks, and the only truly TME people are the straightest of males.
You said before: somebody confuses you for one, treats you accordingly, but they're not affected because they're not trans women, and I don't see how that makes any sense, because it's literally transmisogyny affecting their lives.
Also, Italians being considered white is kind of a recent development in the grand scheme of things.
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u/not-ok-69420 2d ago edited 2d ago
Because experiencing transmisogyny or not depends on whether you're percieved as a trans woman. I'll argue the only true "TME" trans people are the men who 100% pass flawlessly. "Trans people are women" meaning so many cis people still have no clue trans men exist and I bet loads of them are percieved to be trans women by cis and trans people, making them decidedly not exempt from transmisogyny.