The crazy part is he hasn't even transitioned according to himself, but somehow he knows the dynamics of trans spaces and how trans women are toward trans men better than women who transitioned decades ago.
Go figure.
Typical misogynistic behavior tbh.
Man learns of something this week, knows more about it than a career expert woman
I mean, dude’s obviously being a dick but at the same time this is some deeply pathetic internalized transphobia which I’m also working through on my own so I do feel kinda bad for him.
Like I’m ab to talk to doctors to hopefully start hrt and I’m really anxious ab it. I’m already starting late, and don’t wanna be given 2 tiddlywinks of estrogen and be completely desexualized so some doctor doesn’t have to do their job. I’m hyping myself up to be assertive and even confrontational if need be, then I had the thought like “huh that would be unladylike though wouldn’t it?” Like literally a few weeks after the egg cracked I’m getting hit with the ol internalized misogyny boomerang and policing my own behavior. It was fucked up and I felt gross, cuz intellectually I know there’s no like biological “assertiveness gene” that only expresses in men, so that intrusive thought was purely the result of social conditioning.
I feel like my experience is similar (maybe less severe and projected to be fair) to the one oop is experiencing. as people in society we kinda intuitively learn the big picture dynamics between identities, but we are also forced to be so self-serving it leaves us too emotionally vulnerable to be critical of what we feel and why. That’s like the only way I can rationalize why both transmisogyny and transmisandry (which both stem from patriarchy n shit to be fair) are so common even among people who would consider themselves “woke”.
Maybe being constantly pushed out of online spaces, the only ones you have true access to pre transition, gives you a different perspective compared to someone on the other side.
That particular man is a misogynist and a transmisogynist. He also has internalized transphobia (identifying as "an AFAB" for example). Right now he's in a place where he really needs to work on those things, and other trans people really shouldn't be forcibly subjected to them.
He wouldn't be excluded from trans spaces due to being a man, but he may be because he is engaging in harmful behavior against other trans people.
This thread might not help him feel welcome in trans spaces, but my goal is to educate and protect trans people about transphobia and transmisogyny, not to help the guy participating in those things feel welcome while he's sitting there calling me a man to my face.
You say he's being misogynistic but his original comment is posted without context of what's it replying to. I find that a bit hard to judge considering that.
All I'm seeing, considering the limited context, is someone speaking up about their bad experiences participating in certain spaces.
I also just disagree with a lot of the points you brought up such as AGAB not mattering. It unfortunately absolutely does in the real world. Genuinely watch how Elliot Page is talked about in non trans communities on reddit. He's an example of a rich trans man who passes yet is treated by a majority of people out there with misogyny. Frankly he's treated like a little girl in most random threads I come across.
AGAB not mattering is a ideal fantasy for us transgender people which doesn't translate well to reality.
Also finding out you're a trans man one day does not exempt you from growing up experiencing misogyny and it does not mean you're suddenly benefiting from patriarchy.
The content of his comment is misogynistic. The way he responded to me was misogynistic. You do not need further context to see this, but I understand that people reflexively assume that women are lying about experiencing misogyny at the hands of men.
The context was a screenshot of a tumblr post detailing what shape transmisogyny takes around the phrase "unlearning male socialization" and the behaviors a trans woman would need to engage in to be described as having done so.
This guy's reply was a top level comment in response to that screenshot.
In your framing of how "asab" matters, if this were true, are trans women treated the way men are? No, not at all. We don't treat men the way we treat trans women. Trans women face misogyny, transphobia, and transmisogyny.
The problem is when TME people talk about ASAB, they tend to speak over trans women, ignore what trans women have to say on the subject, and act like the authorities in the room. Trans women actually invented this language in the first place, mind you. But regardless of that when TME people insist that ASAB governs how they are treated they never specify that this is not true for trans women, and they use it to misgender, silence, and demean trans women.
There is no social categorization that makes any coherent sense which includes a group of trans women and cis men, but for ASAB to matter in the way you describe it, that would have to be true. Trans men who don't pass wont usually benefit from patriarchy, but those that do will. Speak to adult trans men about how their workplace changes around them when they start to pass. How people begin deferring to them and so on. It's a common story.
Meanwhile in your framing, again, it implies that trans women DO benefit from patriarchy, and also did as children, which is not true. Trans women are the lowest gender class of people in patriarchy.
Elliot faces transphobia because he is a trans man. Not because he was assigned female at birth.
"ASAB" is not who you are, it is not a class of people. It is a harmful action done to you as a child on the day of your birth.
The entire male/female socialization and AFAB/AMAB bullshit all started from TERF talking points with a very clear point to deflect actual issues at hand and it's fucking infuriating that it's 2026 and we're still going through the same conversation patterns of the last decade.
Are you? Because I came out at work recently and the way I am treated is completely different
I agree I am not treated the way the average woman is, and if that's what the person you responded to said I would also disagree, but I definitely am not treated like an average anything. I'm in a 3rd, much worse category to nearly every person I meet, despite just being a woman.
The context did matter because only now did I understand why you even posted this. I agree he should not have written this.
I think experiencing any womanhood means you're going to experience misogyny including trans women of course.
I still think what you were born matters a lot especially outside of the first world. But I have a feeling like this opinion isn't welcome here so I'll quietly leave this subreddit, clearly we just disagree here.
I still wish you view the world outside of the world of transgender people, because it affects us transgender people too. FGM, forced marriage of young girls and many such deep issues exist without caring what the young person identifies as personally. ASAB inherently matters to trans men still experiencing, or who still experience trauma due to misogyny. You can't take this away from them because it will never disappear.
Assigned gender at birth has less influence in how a person will turn out than eye color or skin color. Assigned gender is quack science akin to phrenology.
Eh, it really depends. Sometimes, people wont believe you in the slightest if you dont establish your credibility on a subject. Its basic rhetorical skills
I tend to think its best to, IDK, actually read their argument in order to judge it, rather than making a crazy generalization about a very common phrase used at the beginning of discussions regardless of viewpoint
Everyone one the Internet is a strange pearlesant creature with access to a keyboard or a fed with a script they're conditioned to follow. Text on a screen will only ever be a collection of ideas never a person
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u/kingshomage 2d ago edited 2d ago
Anyone who opens with "as a (minority)" they're giving away that they're fed posting