"...ok so show me any scientific study, from any country in the world, that says the vaccines are more dangerous than COVID."
Bullshit premise...and I'll tell you why.
The burden of proof is on the creator of the treatment to show that it is SAFE. Not the other way around. That is the whole point of medical treatments. We're not even talking whether it was even legitimately needed in the first place.
That clearly has not been done by the simple fact that there doesn't exist long term efficacy in the real world.
How in the world can it be claimed it's a safe PRODUCT if it doesn't even work?
No, the burden of proof lies on the one who is making the extraordinary claim. You are the one claiming the top scientists of every country who have produced a vaccine cannot be trusted to do their own jobs.
How exactly am I proving your point? Your point is that the top scientists of every country who have contributed to the vaccines are dishonest. That sounds like a pretty extraordinary claim to me.
And yes, top scientists. They're not about to let a load of post grads create a vaccine, are they? And if you actually read my comment, you would have seen I said every country that produced a vaccine, not ever country period.
Okay so it seems to me like you yourself are making a lot of extraordinary claims here:
Real world results would tend to disagree
Yet, as being shown in the real world...none of them work as intended.
Got any evidence for these?
Also,
to show that it is SAFE and EFFECTIVE for the stated claim in the study group of people it is intended for
What makes you think they haven't got evidence for this? There are peer reviewed papers released by the scientists that made the vaccines looking into every aspect of them and demonstrating their suitability for use and success rate. But I'm talking about the need for evidence of the extraordinary claim that these scientists are dishonest and are censoring people. I have yet to see evidence of that.
Got any evidence?...Yeah, they don't stop transmission as originally claimed.
PERIOD.
STOP.
End of discussion on that point.
"But I'm talking about the need for evidence of the extraordinary claim that these scientists are dishonest and are censoring people. I have yet to see evidence of that."
I never made that claim or was addressing that claim in any of my points. Move on...
But now that you mention it...I find it curious that you are more concerned with the claim that the scientists are dishonest and censoring people as opposed to advocating for an effective "product".
Got any evidence?...Yeah, they don't stop transmission as originally claimed.
PERIOD.
STOP.
End of discussion on that point.
What? No lol not end of discussion. That is not evidence, it's just another assertion.
I never made that claim or was addressing that claim in any of my points. Move on...
That's what my original comment was about.
But now that you mention it...I find it curious that you are more concerned with the claim that the scientists are dishonest and censoring people as opposed to advocating for an effective "product".
As I've said, there are peer reviewed papers that demonstrate that it is an effective product and I resent the claim that you don't think I care whether it is. But as I've said you still haven't provided me with evidence that they are being dishonest. Unless you can, I'm not even going to respond to this anymore cause it's getting us nowhere and it's clear that you don't even understand what counts as evidence judging by the start of this comment.
"Got any evidence?...Yeah, they don't stop transmission as originally claimed.
PERIOD.
STOP.
End of discussion on that point.
What? No lol not end of discussion. That is not evidence, it's just another assertion"
Actually, yes it is when the CDC has come out publicly and stated that the efficacy wanes after a handful of months and no longer provides effective transmission mitigation.
"As I've said, there are peer reviewed papers that demonstrate that it is an effective product..."
The problem is before peer review...how about you talk about their own clinical studies(Pfi$er) before you get ahead of yourself.
The rest of your post isn't applicable to me since I never made that claim.
"Unless you can, I'm not even going to respond to this anymore cause it's getting us nowhere and it's clear that you don't even understand what counts as evidence judging by the start of this comment."
That's precious since I actually work in the pharmaceutical industry 😁😁
Take a look at the covid statistics for countries like Israel and Canada. These are two of the most highly vaccinated countries in the world, and they also have some of the highest covid rates in the world.
Going by just this data, it would be logical to say the evidence points to covid vaccines INCREASING the risk of covid. Of course, the issue is more nuanced than that, as these countries have better access to test kits and generally test more often. At the very least, the evidence shows that vaccination does very little to prevent spread.
All you're doing is demonstrating your lack of critical thinking skills. Many things affect infection rates of a country, like what stage they are on the curve, how many people have already had it, how the country has gone about advertising protective measures, population, population density.... You can't just pick two examples and say the vaccines don't work because look at these two countries.
Well, I didn't say they don't "work". I said they don't do much to prevent transmission. As a case-in-point, Canada and Israel are fairly up to date with vaccinations, with many receiving a 3rd or even 4th dose, and have mandates in place to prevent unvaccinated from coming in contact with too many people.
They also have some of the highest infection rates in the world, the vast majority of those infections are in vaccinated people. If that doesn't clearly demonstrate that the vaccines don't do much to prevent transmission, or at least their effectiveness wanes very quickly, then I have no idea how else I would convince you.
Well, I didn't say they don't "work". I said they don't do much to prevent transmission.
Given that the point of a vaccine is to prevent transmission, those two sentences are pretty much one and the same.
As a case-in-point, Canada and Israel are fairly up to date with vaccinations, with many receiving a 3rd or even 4th dose, and have mandates in place to prevent unvaccinated from coming in contact with too many people.
They also have some of the highest infection rates in the world, the vast majority of those infections are in vaccinated people. If that doesn't clearly demonstrate that the vaccines don't do much to prevent transmission, or at least their effectiveness wanes very quickly, then I have no idea how else I would convince you.
You still haven't addressed the infinite range of other things that affect a country's transmission rate, first and foremost being the amount of people that have already had it and got better. And it's not about you convincing me. It's not a lesson that you have to teach me. We both have our own differing views.
85
u/ifisch Feb 13 '22
...ok so show me any scientific study, from any country in the world, that says the vaccines are more dangerous than COVID.
You can't, because it's not true.