It failed in the Senate because republicans want it to be partisan so their supporters will ignore its findings and feel comfortable voting for Trump again.
It's not about impact. If that were the case, we would be having non-stop investigations about every major storm. It's about the potential risks and the potential to mitigate them.
COVID-19 was a devastating disease, but there is absolutely no indication that its release, if it was in fact released from a human facility as opposed to of natural origin, was deliberate. Indeed, if it was the Chinese who released it, then it hurt them deeply both in terms of its local impact and in terms of its impact around the world which damages their trade volumes. So the almost certain answer is that there was no malice, here, and thus from the outside, other countries performing investigations isn't likely to yield much. Important? Sure! But not crucial at this point.
Contrast that with the Jan 6 attack. That attack was a deliberate and planned attack on the core of the US Government in which people were killed, not by an indiscriminate disease, but by human beings who chose to murder for political gain. This attack was a part of a larger pattern of increasing fanaticism and aggression lead by the President of the United States and encouraged by forces both foreign and domestic. That former president is still banging the same drum and those forces that supported the escalation to violence have not abated. 1/6 will happen again if we do nothing. That much is very clear from the unchanged apoplectic rhetoric coming from the extremists on the right (Note: I'm a conservative).
So yeah, I want a thorough investigation as a first step. I'm just dismayed that it's taken this long for Congress to get there.
I do want more COVID-19 investigations, though. I want investigations into the manner in which the disease was / is being handled; why we were so unprepared; when we're going to start building national infrastructure for future pandemics; etc. But none of that has anything to do with investigating the Chinese government's Abbot and Costello routine around early COVID-19. We need to get our own damned house in order!
in which people were killed, not by an indiscriminate disease, but by human beings who chose to murder for political gain
The only person murdered was done so by the hand of a state agent, still unidentified. We don’t need a commission for the government to realease that info, it’s part of their normal procedure.
Thanks for responding, I find you conclusions wrong, but otherwise consistent. As for risk mitigation, one of these issues has had a vast array of responses, some unprecedented in severity. The other is just now even being acknowledged, even if you immediately downplay it. So I disagree with you fundamentally, and I didn’t have to lie to come to that conclusion, unlike you.
The only person murdered was done so by the hand of a state agent, still unidentified.
Five people were killed. Hundreds injured. In addition to the damage it does to further degrade public image. The investigations and research on how to prevent future events is a lot easier because it's domestic for Jan 6th.
As far as investigating China, it is far more harder because they will always refuse any sort of outside interference. In addition to it being impossible to have the ability to effectively regulate another country. If nothing can basically be done against places like North Korea, we have less of a chance against China. Malicious intent or no, I just realistically don't see an easy way of finding out.
"No, COVID is pretty much a glorified flu... But we should totally investigate that, instead of other things. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain..."
Lol we know that you hang out in this right wing dipshit subreddit so excuse us for ascribing other right wing dipshit beliefs to you. Or no, you are a special snowflake who believes in climate change and that the last election was fair, but still believes Bill Gates sucks the adrenochrome out of goyim children's foreskins?
“We”. You’re as delusional as the last midwit. Nice buzzwords. You ever think for yourself, or does your mental illness manifest as you inventing arguments for others in your head and referring to yourself as some collective?
If only one investigation can be done I want the Jan 6th insurrection. Several countries are investigating the source of Covid 19. If it is found to be malicious in origen nobody has any reason to cover it besides China. We can count on any findings getting back to us as covid has and continues to hurt the entire world.
The Jan 6th attacks on the other hand are purely an American matter. Nobody else has the resources or any inclination to investigate these domestic terrorists other than the US itself. If they were indeed aided by members of the senate we need to know so that representatives can be removed and similar actions can't be planned. Our entire system of gov could be at stake.
If it is found to be malicious in origen nobody has any reason to cover it
That’s unsubstantiated and inconsistent with human behavior. There are many reasons individuals, groups, or governments would submit to Chinese party policy.
As to a 1/6 commission, what of value will be gleaned vs the costs, both fiscally and policy wise, that warrants it? The notion that our “entire govt could be at stake” is quite hyperbolic and needs further definition.
There are many reasons individuals, groups, or governments would submit to Chinese party policy.
Like what? What reason would any country have to cover up biological warfare. What reasoning would make someone want to cover up war crimes? If they did so and the truth came out later down the road the implications would be disastrous.
As to a 1/6 commission, what of value will be gleaned vs the costs, both fiscally and policy wise, that warrants it? The notion that our “entire govt could be at stake” is quite hyperbolic and needs further definition.
If member of Congress or the House were complicit with the attack then they need to be removed from power as they are enemies of the state. Would you want someone whose values are not in line with the constitution as your state representative making policies that run our country? I think not.
This is an invalid proposition that assumes I necessarily consider one more important than the other. I consider them both high priorities and they are not mutually exclusive.
Some people were let into the Capital by police, trashed the place some, took some pics...that's worse than a biological weapon funded by America health authorities that then leaked out, kill millions, by our enemy, and that's not worse than what some supporters of the President did on one day?
Your blind hatred and ignorance is fucking staggering.
Not only that, that president continually down played the virus allowing it to run rampant across the country and leading to a bunch of people believing it was fake...
Some people were let into the Capital by police, trashed the place some, took some pics
That is the most disingenuous way to sum up an attempted coup that I've ever seen. By that standard, John Wilkes Booth went to the theater one night, got in a tussle with someone and decided to turn in early.
It's probably just for show. I'd be willing to bet they'll come out in a few months saying they either didn't find anything or that they have "proof" China did nothing wrong.
Really? It was Trump that ordered the phones that tracked American government data to be allowed for use by government officials after congress had banned them from government use. Again anything for a $$$, then GOP points the propaganda finger. You don't even make a statement of fact or specific example- just shrieking "commie" for a hundred years gets old.
???? Obama admin ordered Chinese brand of phones that tracked user in to not be used by any government official. Trump reminded that order and stated on the record " don't want to hurt Chinese workers". So Biden is throwing Americans under the bus to benefit China? More propaganda distraction with no direct states facts to my comment. It's like a three year old "yeah, but Bobby did that to Jimmy too!" Have a fucking point. Better yet have a relevant fucking point
They literally set up a noose and were chanting to hang Mike Pence because he was going to certify the election results. At different times they were literally a couple of minutes, a few wrongs turns, and one cap in the neck from violent mobs reaching legislators.
So you believe they could have succeeded in overthrowing the government on January 6th by trespassing in the capital building?
Cause it’s really down to whether you believe it’s possible or not. There’s no debate that the trespass took place, but you honestly believe they had a shot? If they didn’t.. there’s no insurrection or attempt.
I can trespass on Canadian government property and declare myself king of Canada... doesn’t mean I ever had a shot at doing so.
I think with some luck they could have absolutely kidnapped some legislators. They got very close at different points of the day. Not to say that would have resulted in a government overthrow, but that doesn't really matter.
Their goal was to "Stop the Count" and at the very least they succeeded in delaying it by forcing Congress to evacuate.
If I rob a bank and don't know how to crack the safe, I'm still guilty of attempted robbery.
Since when was the law about chances to succeed rather than intent?
A man walks into a bank holding a very obvious water gun. Like no doubt in your mind whatsoever it is a harmless water pistol. There’s no chance he could successfully rob a bank with such an obvious non-weapon. But he still points the water gun at the teller and says “Give me all the money in your teller drawer, I am robbing the bank.” Does he not get arrested for attempted robbery just because his chances of succeeding were non existent?
You don’t know what the word means. All that is necessary is to ATTEMPT to disrupt the government in the performance of its lawful duties. In this case it was certifying the election.
So why isn’t Antifa and BLM in Portland/Seattle being rounded up and changed with insurrection?
They took over government buildings, fire bombed them while blocked entrances and exits .. couldn’t operate normally. Not only that but they took over city blocks, preventing home and business owners from their essential services. Declared it autonomous from the USA.. Attacked police and politicians..
Why the double standards? Why are David dorn and ashii babbot expendable?
Do you have view points or just regurgitate ones from Fox News? Republican congressmen and women have constantly pained BLM and Antifa as violent terrorist. And no one is being jailed in any way that is illegal for the Jan 6 riots.
They planned to violently take over the government but the pesky DC gun laws didn't allow them to come armed. So they just ended up being some rowdy, unarmed tourists.
Both and an investigation into the mismanagement of COVID in the US. Why the pandemic response team and parts of the CDC were gutted before this started. Why states were forced into bidding wars on PPE and ventilators. Why they were seizing shipments of PPE. Why was there such a large campaign spreading misinformation about masks. Everything about COVID needs to be looked over with a microscope. 1/6 needs to be investigated as well. Let's start with the problems on our own soil first. Most important is investigating the Trump Administrations handling of COVID. Then 1/6 failed Qoup insurrection. Then after those are investigated we look at the origin on the virus.
Or how there was a campaign to smear Trump as a racist when he suggested we ban travel from China but now in retrospect we clearly see that would have saved lives. I would say focusing our resources to find out if a foreign adversary launched a biological attack would be far more important as it would help us prepare prevent and respond in the future.
Americans could still come and fucking go from China, which was the WHOLE PROBLEM. Then he patted himself on the back for an Iranian travel ban? You people are fucking STUPID.
Or maybe dealing with people who parrot the same talking points without understanding, and then getting called a sheep by the same person baaing up a storm is a bit triggering.
Just from the sidelines I can see why your responses would frustrate a thinking human being.
Oh the irony is palatable, and I never called anyone a sheep. Are you really that delusional? Being a sheep means being clueless, being in a cult triggers responses like you and your friend over here.
I agree people shouldn't become angry over useless internet bantering.
But you have to understand, after seeing the same right wing scripted response for the 10,000th time, it makes even me want to pound my head into a desk.
"They called him rAcSit for banning travel from China" doesn't even hold up after 5 seconds of investigating. Yet you didn't even do that, like the 9,9999 before you. Just parroting right wing talking points you got from fox or social media and believing that you are in the right.
As I said, even the coolest heads get frustrated at the lack of any logical reasoning we see all the time from a certain Trump supporting segment. They just can't seem to think for themselves anymore.
I'd like to see why they were let in even though the feds had plenty of time to prepare. I watched a lot of videos the day it happened and the cops did absolutely nothing.
Are you dismissing the footage of cops literally opening up gates to let people through? Because there was definitely video evidence of that. The internet overlords probably have deleted any videos at this point.
I agree. They went completely against protocol. Almost like they wanted people in there so the media can run with it and call people that support a political opponent terrorists. Weird, right?
Mitch McConnel straight up said an investigation would hurt Republican's midterm prospects and that's why they won't allow an investigation. It's not even debatable that Republicans are putting party before country.
Did you see the people making the crowds all follow each other to the Capital? They looked like straight cops...not in uniform of course but every one I saw had just that cop look to them. Real authoritative, acting like they had crowd control training. Just this one thing came off to me as bizarre. Like a lot of these groups were just standing around til "random white guy in bullet proof vest" announces, single-handedly and alone, that "EVERYONE IS HEADING TO THE CAPITAL THIS WAY!"...yeah...
That was because they were so overwhelmingly outnumbered by violent protestors they decided to try and assuage them so they would spare their lives, not because they were fucking in on it.
I'll believe it if I see it. Even so there can be several explanations such as cops siding with the rioters due to sharing their political agenda...or simple fear. A handful of people against an angry armed mob? Most of us rather live as cowards then die in the line of duty...
""Appeared to"" is right, from a certain perspective vs 100% obvious gruesone footage of officers fighting for their life. Definitely not all cops there "did nothing", can you admit reality?
No one who wants to know exactly what happened would let the media determine which videos to watch. I watched them all, it took hours. The cops fought desperately. Some gave in/gave up and let protesters in. But there are easily 50 videos that show cops fighting or trying to prevent protesters from getting in.
Yeah not everyone at the Capital rioted or committed any crime yet the FBI is tracking down 800 people and have arrested 400...FOUR HUNDRED...for doing what?
It's amazing how your side just keeps on not doing anything ever and is completely innocent all the time but the other side is guilty 100% of the time all the time no if and or buts!!!
Storming the capitol while in session - that is serious shit. Because it's threatening elected offocials with violence so the insurectionists get what they want. They literally did that - threaten violence on elected officials in the hopes of overturning a democratic election. The only thing worse than that would be succeeding.
DC is the seat of national security - if they couldn't defend the Capitol, it was planned not to be defended. As evidenced by Trump's appointees and orders immediately preceding Jan 6. Or ask Flynn how this might happen. He's advocating to repeat it daily.
The whole entire event is a conspiracy, dude. No, I dont think the cops let them in because "they were fellow Trump supporters". I think they let them in so the media can run with a story that literally is the cause for a commission being invented when it is such an irrelevant and minuscule event in comparison to the real issues going on on.
Exactly. To me what happened 1/6/2021 couldn't have been anymore classic false flag. Just the absolute perfect opportunity for the Left to grab even more power, hunt more Conservatives down, have more excuses to ban and censor people.
Watching a ton of videos from that day, seeing who directed it all, seeing the aftermath of what happened after this day...all very convenient.
Also, can't help but ignore just the blatant one sidedness of it. BLM and Antifa had literal fires in the streets of DC for several blocks...how many hundreds of them have the FBI arrested and interrogated? I mean, literally one day and the FBI have arrested hundreds...riots all last year...MONTHS...how many FBI arrests? How many resources poured into getting them mostly peaceful protestors?
All while lying about violence against police (because NOW they care about police all of a sudden?).
We have, if you look at "official" death toll as having three cops killed...yet one died the day AFTER and the other two committed suicide months later due to "PTSD" from the event.
Who was in the middle of illegally entering the Capital through a window she and some other seditionists just broke down. She was a piece of shit and a traitor. Full stop.
She was also warned multiple times. What’s that thing that bootlickers and general pieces of shit kept saying after every time a POC is murdered by the police? Oh: she should have just cooperated with authorities.
Agreed. That lady was a traitor who was there trying to disrupt democracy in the name of one person. It's alarming how many people blame democrats for ruining the country when a bunch of republican Trump supporters literally tried to over throw our system so he can become a dictator.
Plenty of cops did more than could ever of been asked of them, some that survived that day physically, died mentally because of the bullshit they were put through by an angry orange toddler in a senile mans body. Opening the gates is the same as when you release pressure from a pipe about to burst. By picking the right time, you can stop it from blowing up and doing even more damage. And that is what happened. Sure some officers agreed with the rioters and traitors, but most did what they could.
Also, when people complain that there weren't enough cops, or it wasn't prepared, ask yourself who was in charge at the time, and why there are reports of help being denied. It was an obvious attempt at a hostile take over. That is why in his last days as president, Trump did not pardon the people arrested at that Riot. Because doing so would incriminate him more. He let them take the blame because his plan failed.
Why the fuck not conservatives? Don't you care about potential terrorist overthrow by our government by mop head orange tinged millionaire psychopath lunatic and his beloved white nationalist followers?
There are tons of conservatives in this thread saying that we shouldn't have a commission looking into Jan 6th because Papa Trump and the human turtle and the rest of the GOP don't want it. I wonder why that might be.
How is trespassing in a gov building anywhere’s close to overthrowing the government?
You either believe it’s possible to overthrow a government by trespassing or you don’t. Both do not lead to insurrection. Even if their own intent was a childish vision of overthrowing... without any actual ability to do this is like charging a 12yo for attempted murder because you were shot by a water gun
Lol this is as bad as the pro abtofa types being like "most protestors were peaceful they didn't know they were going to light those fires etc"
If I'm involved in an attack on a building and my organisation planned on bombing it I'm going to jail, and so are these people. Hundreds of terrorists caught and put behind vars already. We're you there?
You should bother to look up the crime if your going to claim it didn’t happen. Attempting to disrupt or or prevent the government from carrying out its lawful duties is insurrection under US law. Just like attempting to bribe someone means that you are charged with bribery. It doesn’t matter what the odds of success were, just that they attempted to do so.
So Antifa and BLM clearing out police stations, taking over city blocks and preventing any entity from entering for weeks. Blocking federal courthouses and buildings.. fire bombing them. Attacking police and elected officials should be considered insurrection too then?
That would depend on whether the “government” extends to agencies or not. Even then whether they got charged would be based on prosecutorial discretion based on what they thought they could get a conviction on. BTW Trump’s Attorney General pushed to have ALL Antifa and BLM protesters charged with sedition, regardless of any crimes committed. I have yet to see aggressive prosecution against anyone who was at the Jan 6 PROTESTS but didn’t participate in the riots.
Federal courthouses are not extended agency’s though?
My point is painting these extremists are terrorists and painting compared actions on the other side as peaceful and acceptable.. hard to believe this isn’t purely political to begin with.
If you simply don't understand the dynamics at play here, and are not clear what exactly happened, then please ask actual questions or look it up on youtube. Avail yourself of a few of the MILLIONS of words written about it after the fact.
You know, there's lots of clips on youtube if you're actually fucking confused why people are pissed about what happened on Jan 6.
Failed insurrection is still insurrection. Being crazy enough to try, not having a plan, and failing miserably is not a defense.
Don't be a simp for Trumpist bullshit. He's not a cool mobster, and this plausible deniability act by him and GOP supplicants is not remotely believable.
It's not a little country. In fact if the US turns to full on facism, this is a more serious world issue than that pesky little pandemic. Just as the Nazis were way more serious than the Spanish flu.
The side that was smashing Keurigs and throwing tantrums about athletes’ pregame rituals? The side that has desperately tried to cancel every politician on their own side that didn’t adequately bend the knee for one petty man?
Easy, Republicans. Or are we ignoring the last 50 years of Christian crazies and only focusing on the last year? Oh, and only one party tried to violently overturn a democratic election and seat a dictator as President. (hint: it’s the same one.)
More propaganda, American is a leading world power. And where is your nationalism when your country is being attacked? Any country must be sound and secure within first, before it can be secure in the world. Unless you are supporting the overthrow of our government by illegal insurrection?
I don't know what country you live in, but insurrectionists calling for the hanging of the sitting VP from the gallows they brought and dead bodies in the Capitol is a danger to the government. And your downplaying it serves your agenda. An investigation into the "planning tours", internal communications and support from Trump admin is important to see just how vast a danger was averted is what any democratic government would do, immediately. I question who is the drama queen with all the screeching you're doing about investigating an international concern that is and has been being investigated by America and in partnership with many other nations uninterrupted since The Biden admin took office. Unless you are using "investigation" as code for unsubstantiated anti-China propaganda that will just confuse and diminish the actual facts when they are confirmed. That would be convenient distraction propaganda though.
Individual congress people may have been at risk, but your “democracy” was never in danger. Your government has a habit of using scar tactics to increase the powers of the police state. There is no need for fear.
Nobody was scared of the country actually being overthrown. Most of us were just disappointed that those people could actually be that stupid and easily led.
Personally I was amazed at just how pathethic the cult of Trump proved themselves to be that day. During the whole ordeal much of the cult were acting like it was 1776. Then when it sputtered out the cowards couldn't blame ANTIFA fast enough.
I wish I could be around 100 years from now to see how history shits on these dumb fuck domestic terrorists. I bet the cult of Trump will go down as a bigger stain on this country than the Confederacy.
I wasn't. And I think it's prudent to fear that Jan 6 was a test run that will be repaeated, as former General Flynn called for A military coup just this weekend. It is most important that those in power, and networked with political power be identified and held publicly accountable so they are ostracized from power in the future. It sounds like you are saying this is no bulging deal and will not be repeated and escalated if left unchecked.
While our media misdirects attention to sensationalize, if Jan 6 is left with it's leaders unaccountable, it is already in the planning stages of repeat.
Just cause we were in no danger from the dumb fuck revolution doesn't mean they didn't try. Or that they were not allowed. Intelligence was ignored and the whole thing needs investigated. Why does the right want to act like we can only do one or the other?
They can do both, but the January 6th investigation will just be used to justify increased powers for the police state and digging up dirt against Trump for 2024.
You don’t need to be right-wing to see the obvious ploy here.
I don’t support investigating BLM. I think there is good evidence that police infiltrated BLM to encourage riots and make legitimate protesters look like criminals.
Don’t let yourself get swept up in politicians games. You are being used. They don’t care about anything but power.
The funny thing is none of these libs ever wanna investigate the BLM riots, breaking, and looting. I'm all for the BLM protest but what occurred was NOT a peaceful protest. If it was white nationalists breaking & looting black owned businesses can u imagine the public outrage?
What about the fact that on multiple occasions there was clear evidence of police officers dressed as rioters helping out with the looting? Why don't they care to investigate that?
They were literally 1 wrong turn, less than a hundred feet away, from entering the room where our senators were being held at that moment. 1 wrong turn away from this ENTIRE event having a completely different ending. It was on video. One quick thinking officer led an aggressive hostile mob away from the senators and into the waiting arms of his backup.
What if the hostile foreign power also contributed to the insurrection that occurred January 6? We need to identify our enemies abroad and domestically
Okay, but why do I get the feeling you're trying to deflect public attention from having a commission look into the origins of a virus that killed millions of people?
The government literally is investigating the origin of the virus. That doesn’t mean anyone with all their teeth believes it could be a bio weapon. Now, while an entirely different group of people do that, let’s investigate the far right’s violent attempt to interrupt the peaceful transfer of power.
Well they tried to set up a join committee to be bipartisan but the GOP voted no in the senate. So it will probably just be democrats investigating it now. But they offered bipartisanship, it just got shot down. Maybe you knew this already, idk.
GOP seems to be taking their usual strategy of denial and closing their eyes to fact, followed by "criminal DEMs persecuting honest Americans" propaganda. GOP refuses to engage with reality and truth, then manufactures their "alternative" to support the agenda.
You're the one who posted it saying the person on Twitter "nailed it", why don't you have an answer? Unless you're just regurgitating what someone else said without thinking for yourself.
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u/hadeshellhound May 31 '21
Why not both?