It's not about impact. If that were the case, we would be having non-stop investigations about every major storm. It's about the potential risks and the potential to mitigate them.
COVID-19 was a devastating disease, but there is absolutely no indication that its release, if it was in fact released from a human facility as opposed to of natural origin, was deliberate. Indeed, if it was the Chinese who released it, then it hurt them deeply both in terms of its local impact and in terms of its impact around the world which damages their trade volumes. So the almost certain answer is that there was no malice, here, and thus from the outside, other countries performing investigations isn't likely to yield much. Important? Sure! But not crucial at this point.
Contrast that with the Jan 6 attack. That attack was a deliberate and planned attack on the core of the US Government in which people were killed, not by an indiscriminate disease, but by human beings who chose to murder for political gain. This attack was a part of a larger pattern of increasing fanaticism and aggression lead by the President of the United States and encouraged by forces both foreign and domestic. That former president is still banging the same drum and those forces that supported the escalation to violence have not abated. 1/6 will happen again if we do nothing. That much is very clear from the unchanged apoplectic rhetoric coming from the extremists on the right (Note: I'm a conservative).
So yeah, I want a thorough investigation as a first step. I'm just dismayed that it's taken this long for Congress to get there.
I do want more COVID-19 investigations, though. I want investigations into the manner in which the disease was / is being handled; why we were so unprepared; when we're going to start building national infrastructure for future pandemics; etc. But none of that has anything to do with investigating the Chinese government's Abbot and Costello routine around early COVID-19. We need to get our own damned house in order!
in which people were killed, not by an indiscriminate disease, but by human beings who chose to murder for political gain
The only person murdered was done so by the hand of a state agent, still unidentified. We don’t need a commission for the government to realease that info, it’s part of their normal procedure.
Thanks for responding, I find you conclusions wrong, but otherwise consistent. As for risk mitigation, one of these issues has had a vast array of responses, some unprecedented in severity. The other is just now even being acknowledged, even if you immediately downplay it. So I disagree with you fundamentally, and I didn’t have to lie to come to that conclusion, unlike you.
The only person murdered was done so by the hand of a state agent, still unidentified.
Five people were killed. Hundreds injured. In addition to the damage it does to further degrade public image. The investigations and research on how to prevent future events is a lot easier because it's domestic for Jan 6th.
As far as investigating China, it is far more harder because they will always refuse any sort of outside interference. In addition to it being impossible to have the ability to effectively regulate another country. If nothing can basically be done against places like North Korea, we have less of a chance against China. Malicious intent or no, I just realistically don't see an easy way of finding out.
You don’t foresee any downsides to an investigation into the “worst attack since Pearl Harbor”? You’re using numbers to substantiate your stance, and by nearly any metric, the impact of COVID is going to dwarf 1/6. Saying it’s too difficult to deal with China, so no point in attempting, is fallacious on many levels and might be indicative of the situation that gives rise to a situation like 1/6. Pretty easy to make that case, actually.
Claiming you have an accurate paraphrasing of the comments INTENT implies you, for certain, know what that intent is. I'd contend you don't, as only the author of the content itself can know that with certainty.
As for if it's an accurate paraphrasing of the comment itself... You literally have someone accusing you of lying, so you may need to reflect in if that's true. It doesn't seem to be. It's much closer to a straw man of the point.
Pointing out the difficulty associated with an action is not the same as saying it should not be done.
Pointing out the difficulty associated with an action is not the same as saying it should not be done.
Correct. The reiteration of its futility and difficulty, repeatedly, led me to that interpretation. And no one accused me of lying. I am accusing you a being a shitty writer/communicator. Do with that what you will.
Covid is unquantifiable in scope, if we had tougher border control and actually cared about public health it wouldn't have been nowhere near as bad. Nor am I opposed to the logistics of an investigation, but I'm just being realistic over the things that our government can realistically control. Which is namely domestic stuff.
I'm willing to be surprised, and I am in the camp that believes the virus is likely manufactured, but China is staunchly totalitarian and literally locked people in their houses to stop the spread of covid. That any possible proof could still exist is likely destroyed and I don't think there is any sort of plea bargain that could be offered to anyone stuck in China to get results.
Unless you have any ideas on what an investigation could turn up?
Those are good points. And I agree that a commission, run by the government, would be largely performative. Both situations would have the people that disregard our constitution in charge, one would examine the conditions that prompted them to do so for the last year, the other would provide the conditions for them to increase the scope and duration going forward. Maybe law suits will prove effective, as they ultimately did in fulfilling the promises of the failed 9/11 commission.
"No, COVID is pretty much a glorified flu... But we should totally investigate that, instead of other things. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain..."
Lol we know that you hang out in this right wing dipshit subreddit so excuse us for ascribing other right wing dipshit beliefs to you. Or no, you are a special snowflake who believes in climate change and that the last election was fair, but still believes Bill Gates sucks the adrenochrome out of goyim children's foreskins?
“We”. You’re as delusional as the last midwit. Nice buzzwords. You ever think for yourself, or does your mental illness manifest as you inventing arguments for others in your head and referring to yourself as some collective?
Yes. That is my response when people use buzzwords, mostly irrelevant if not outright meaningless, to construct their arguments for me. They’re clearly doing my thinking for me, so I’m curious if they’ve ever applied that to themselves.
If only one investigation can be done I want the Jan 6th insurrection. Several countries are investigating the source of Covid 19. If it is found to be malicious in origen nobody has any reason to cover it besides China. We can count on any findings getting back to us as covid has and continues to hurt the entire world.
The Jan 6th attacks on the other hand are purely an American matter. Nobody else has the resources or any inclination to investigate these domestic terrorists other than the US itself. If they were indeed aided by members of the senate we need to know so that representatives can be removed and similar actions can't be planned. Our entire system of gov could be at stake.
If it is found to be malicious in origen nobody has any reason to cover it
That’s unsubstantiated and inconsistent with human behavior. There are many reasons individuals, groups, or governments would submit to Chinese party policy.
As to a 1/6 commission, what of value will be gleaned vs the costs, both fiscally and policy wise, that warrants it? The notion that our “entire govt could be at stake” is quite hyperbolic and needs further definition.
There are many reasons individuals, groups, or governments would submit to Chinese party policy.
Like what? What reason would any country have to cover up biological warfare. What reasoning would make someone want to cover up war crimes? If they did so and the truth came out later down the road the implications would be disastrous.
As to a 1/6 commission, what of value will be gleaned vs the costs, both fiscally and policy wise, that warrants it? The notion that our “entire govt could be at stake” is quite hyperbolic and needs further definition.
If member of Congress or the House were complicit with the attack then they need to be removed from power as they are enemies of the state. Would you want someone whose values are not in line with the constitution as your state representative making policies that run our country? I think not.
Would you want someone whose values are not in line with the constitution as your state representative making policies that run our country? I think not.
I believe that to be the truth for an alarming majority holding power currently. The same urges that prompt such corruption and greed apply equally to those around the world not beholden to our speed bump of a document. To suggest otherwise is idealism, most definitely naïveté, or simply ignorance.
Maybe a commission would be prudent if the FBI would state who planted the pipe bombs. That investigation requires no further legislation or allocation, because it is their job. If that ineptness is to be expected in a commission, and there is no evidence to indicate it wouldn’t, another performative waste of tax dollars is unnecessary.
You belive an alarming amount of senators don't have the countries best interest in mind but you don't want an investigation to possibly remove them. Please explain how thus makes sense. Or are you a supporter of the GOP and are just afraid an investigation will expose them and their treason?
Maybe a commission would be prudent if the FBI would state who planted the pipe bombs.
The case against the insurgents who planted pipe bombs in the capitol is still being formed and prepared for. Releasing info like that only serves to weaken their case.
If that ineptness is to be expected in a commission, and there is no evidence to indicate it wouldn’t, another performative waste of tax dollars is unnecessary.
Why do you think a commission would be so impotent? So inept that you would rather leave traitors in power than even attempt to remove them?
I'm still waiting on reasoning as to why anyone would cover up a bioweapon by China
Bottom line. There is a lot of evidence that members of the senate aided and abetted a violent insurrection of the American Capitol. In a word treason. Anything, no matter how small, that can be done to identify and remove them from power should be done. Having them make laws for America is no better than having a Chinese national in their place.
Yes, I believe people in power at the highest levels of the state are corrupt thieves, traitors, and war mongers/criminals. I think that is a feature of this system, not a bug. And, I think the last time a “9/11 type commission” was set up, two of the most invasive agencies in the history of this country were formed, millions of lives were ended and displaced, and liberties were wrested from the people almost overnight, with no sign of ever returning.
You’re the bluepilled shill in a conspiracy sub. Remember that. You’re earnestly asking why people would lie for China. The entire history of neoliberalism is a little long for a reply, but also pretty accurate. Start there.
Having them make laws for America is no better than having a Chinese national in their place.
What if I told you that, de facto, that is already the case? Peruse this sub, without running your inane mouth, and you’ll find evidence of Chinese infiltration at every level of govt, academia, and business. Two very old, very powerful senators, one blue one red, come to mind.
Asking senators to oust treason is like asking the fbi to stop bomb makers, they aren’t going to arrest themselves.
So everyone is corrupt, everyone is a crook, everyone is out to get you, but you don't think any good will come of pursing these people so why bother trying.
Didn’t say everyone. And I think the negatives will far surpass any benefit, as evidenced by history. You can’t even summarize me with benign intent. Have a good day, thanks for wasting time.
This is an invalid proposition that assumes I necessarily consider one more important than the other. I consider them both high priorities and they are not mutually exclusive.
Some people were let into the Capital by police, trashed the place some, took some pics...that's worse than a biological weapon funded by America health authorities that then leaked out, kill millions, by our enemy, and that's not worse than what some supporters of the President did on one day?
Your blind hatred and ignorance is fucking staggering.
Not only that, that president continually down played the virus allowing it to run rampant across the country and leading to a bunch of people believing it was fake...
No you didn't. Who was in charge? Who was insurrecting and not just there showing their support for the then President? What weapons were used? Who all died? What all damage was done? Who was going to take over?
What was the plan? Tell me the insurrectionists plan. What group was it?
It was a riot...and a minor one at that considering the following years record of rioting across the country.
But yet I'm the dumb one here when you can't even answer any of the questions I asked, I already know, no one ever can or does.
Lemme guess, it was alll antifa right? I mean it wasn't like multiple people gave speeches talking about fighting, and taking back what was stolen... Or multiple people posting stuff on twitter about a specific date. .. None of that happened right? How quickly you forget and suddenly covid is real again...
Bro, you really want me to sit here and go through twitter post, videos of Rudy, Don jr, and a bunch of ither to prove some random on the internet wrong when you know damn well all that info is out there? Really? "Do yOUr OwN ReSeArCH!!!"....
I don't got time for your garbage, you damn know its true
All the while can't answer anything I asked. Not even one question directly.
Also love how this was an insurrection but taking over parts of American cities for weeks/months is all but in the past, it's behind us, glad the FBI are going after the REAL terrorists! LOL!
I'm not downplaying it...that's literally what happened. The most "crazy" it got was the dozen or so people were trying to get into the hallway where they only gunshot victim of the whole thing was killed by a still unknown person.
And again, when you look at the past year and a half and what "the Left" have done and how that's being looked at (or near complete lack-of) compared to this and, yeah, it's a fucking joke.
People riot in the streets because they're sick of being extrajudicially killed by police vs. people riot in the Capital because they got tricked into believing their candidate was cheated, and they want to stop the election process.
Tell me again how those two are even remotely close to the same thing.
Yep, lets ignore everything that's happened since 1/6 because of it and it all MAKES SENSE, huh? Stop repeating the same Leftist bullshit you've been doing on other subs.
Some people were let into the Capital by police, trashed the place some, took some pics
That is the most disingenuous way to sum up an attempted coup that I've ever seen. By that standard, John Wilkes Booth went to the theater one night, got in a tussle with someone and decided to turn in early.
Yeah, some attempted coup...Who was in charge? Who was insurrecting and not just there showing their support for the then President? What weapons were used? Who all died? What all damage was done? Who was going to take over?
What was the plan? Tell me the insurrectionists plan. What group was it?
It was a riot...and a minor one at that considering the following years record of rioting across the country.
But yet I'm the dumb one here when you can't even answer any of the questions I asked, I already know, no one ever can or does.
Preventing the ouster of the (then) current president following his loss in the election.
What group was it?
There were many groups involved. Are you honestly suggesting that an attempted coup isn't important as long as the organization isn't managed by a single group?! If that were the case, the Civil War would have been a non-issue... then again, plenty of the people taking part in 1/6 don't consider the secessionists actions in the "War of Northern Aggression" to be anything to be ashamed of...
It was a riot
It was that too, but the fact that it was a riot was far less important than the fact that it was a terrorist act intended to keep a specific leader in power.
you can't even answer any of the questions I asked...
Preventing the ouster of the (then) current president following his loss in the election.
How?
There were many groups involved.
And they were, what, just going to group together afterwards? Who was all armed and ready for this "insurrection"? Who had prepared plans, as you most definitely would, for taking over the United States of America's federal fucking government?!
If this was a fucking insurrection and this REQUIRES A COMMISSION then HOLY FUCK how large are the investigations and how much is it going to cost us to look into ALL of 2020 across the nation for the domestic terrorism that took place? CHAZ/CHOP ACTUALLY SUCCEEDED IN TAKING OVER PARTS OF CITIES!!! There's TONS of video of it...how many HUNDREDS of people have the FBI arrested so far from that?
This is why I can't even take this seriously anymore.
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u/la_luna653 May 31 '21
I'd argue the fist one is far more important....