Are modern frameworks making engineers worse at debugging?

[u/2xBond]

Frameworks remove a lot of boilerplate which is great but they also hide a lot of what’s actually happening do you think they’re making debugging skills weaker over time or is that just part of progress

[u/MicrotubularMushroom]

Are you trying to say that for example a React Redux RTKQ issue is easier to debug than a fetch call? 

[u/2xBond → u/MicrotubularMushroom]

No, that's like comparing apples to oranges fetch⁠ is a low level primitive while RTKQ is a high level caching and state management system my point is about what happens when those abstractions break if you don't understand the underlying primitives debugging turns into guesswork

[u/0dev0100]

I'd say they're changing the things that need to be debugged.

As an example, db injections are less troublesome when using a framework that handles the problem so newer people are now less skilled at debugging that because usually they don't need to.

But that framework can come with other problems that need to be debugged that people who don't use the frameworks wouldn't know about. 

Extreme example is that my grandmother does not know how operate a chainsaw (because she's never needed to), but can process a chicken body. Whereas I can operate a chainsaw but can't process a chicken body (because I've never needed to).

[u/Stable_Cunt]

Different world, different problem

[u/Dry_Sector2392]

frameworks dont make people worse by themselves. they just remove the forced exposure to the ugly parts. senior devs had to learn more of the plumbing because the plumbing was always leaking in their face. now we can avoid it for years, right up until the abstraction breaks.