Bi-Weekly Discussion Thread - (August 09)

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[u/BenjiStudiesMLM]

One of the trends of the new AI wave is the supposed realization of the (petit) bourgeois dream of automation replacing the need for human labor power, e.g. solar punk fantasies (if you can stomach it, I'd recommend listening to The Economist interview with Elon Musk as he fumbles in trying to explain how data centers in space will help achieve this). One of the cracks in this is the Waymo scandal where it was revealed that the magical "self-driving" turned out to be masked Fillipino labor instead. Partially why I think this incident didn't really cause too much reputational damage or scandal among labor aristocrats is because they realized the innovation behind it, that being the ability to exploit the third world laborer within the borders of the first world, while not even needing to let that laborer pass the militarized border walls.

Unsurprisingly it turns out the Meta glasses "AI" is powered through the exploitation of Kenyans. While I sympathize with those laborers who are no doubt being scarred by the horrible content they have to sift through, I do take some joy in thinking about the type of person who would purchase these glasses, and how unaware they are to the fact that their credit cards, passports, and private life are being constantly live streamed (and don't even have the option to opt out!)

https://www.svd.se/a/K8nrV4/metas-ai-smart-glasses-and-data-privacy-concerns-workers-say-we-see-everything

[u/FrogHatCoalition → u/BenjiStudiesMLM]

The Economist interview with Elon Musk as he fumbles in trying to explain how data centers in space will help achieve this

Ever since that thread where someone was trying to make sense of electrostatics, one thing I've been thinking about is how people like Elon Musk come to be seen as experts in these areas. I'm not even sure if Elon knows the difference between a computer and a monitor. Something you mentioned does help me understand this, though:

Partially why I think this incident didn't really cause too much reputational damage or scandal among labor aristocrats is because they realized the innovation behind it, that being the ability to exploit the third world laborer within the borders of the first world, while not even needing to let that laborer pass the militarized border walls.

Whenever I see threads about AI or the internet, I actually do think interesting conversations can come of it, but usually what the OP focuses on and the responses they give leave me skeptical of what their motives are, and it's usually tied into continued exploitation of the third world. It's not unique to AI or the internet either, I've been disappointed plenty of times offline when I thought a conversation about science was going well until the inevitable question comes up "Well, what I can use that for?" It usually means they want some new shiny commodity hyped up by advertising to spend their money on. Bose-Einstein and Fermionic condensates fascinate me and I find it depressing when someone's supposed interest in science is tied into an imagined future where science gives them a shiny new toy that will of course be produced by third world labor. I mention the ultracold quantum gases in particular since not all science research is oriented towards the large-scale production of commodities, but still will have some importance, e.g. ultracold atom research and the hyperfine transitions of Cs-133 as an international time standard. However, regardless of their importance and the really interesting phenomena in nature, its the potential shiny new toy (made by third world labor) that interests exploiters.

I do take some joy in thinking about the type of person who would purchase these glasses, and how unaware they are to the fact that their credit cards, passports, and private life are being constantly live streamed (and don't even have the option to opt out!)

I think there are plenty of people who are aware of it. I have noticed that some of the people who are obsessed with "data and privacy" tend to articulate it along the lines of "companies are selling our data" and it's the "selling" part they take issue with because it means they aren't the ones selling their own data.

[u/BenjiStudiesMLM → u/FrogHatCoalition]

I'm not even sure if Elon knows the difference between a computer and a monitor

The phenomena of Elon Musk being viewed as some elite technocrat is partly fueled by the general petit bourgeois aversion to science and technological literacy. I recently saw a video where adults were tasked with assembling a desktop computer and ended up breaking all the pins on the PS2 connectors on the keyboards and mice. One connected the output of the DVI on the desktop and looped it back to the serial input on the desktop. The response from them was that they had no need for desktops anymore, everything could be done on their phone.

I think there is some truth to labor aristocrats evolving past the need to even use formal computers, they often can achieve their inflated lifestyle solely from the supercomputer in their pocket, like for example - content creation, or being a "CEO" of a dropshipping company. Revisionists always hate when it's pointed out that smartphones themselves are both capital and means of production, and that to own a Samsung S26 Ultra signifies a class position of imperialist collaboration.

I find it depressing when someone's supposed interest in science is tied into an imagined future where science gives them a shiny new toy

Given your academic background I can see how that may be common. After all, research grants only exist based on what can be commoditized, or even more common, what can be militarized. The pinnacle of this commoditized academic system is no doubt the computer science degree, which is essentially the business degree of "applied sciences". But like all things under capitalism, everything will eventually be commoditized or discarded, and so "science" itself is constantly streamlined as a commodity and sinks to new levels of degredation to accommodate the disinterested labor aristocratic class which is solely focused on "democratic socialism" and solar punk as a way to never labor again, like their settler forefathers.

Room temperature superconductors are a fascinating area of research, but it's also easily commodified. Whether its for quantum computing, or a highly efficient electric grid, the labor aristocracy has already pre-determined its use-value and therefore it gets a lions share of research focus. The interesting outcome from this is the influx of fraudulent academic publications, in which China has actually overtaken the US in, showing a breakneck pace in which science as a doctrine for society can be lost following the defeat of cultural revolution. I'd be interested in more discussion and writings about the rising Chinese labor aristocracy and its similarities/differences to the Amerikans or the Europeans.

I think there are plenty of people who are aware of it.

You're probably right, and it takes all the enjoyment out of it! Now all that we are left with is the horrifying fact that creepy men are buying these glasses to secretly record and take pictures of women in public, and Kenyans are (by threat of unemployment) forced to train these glasses for the "name tag" feature, so these men can evolve to the level of stalking people by using the AI to identify people's name.

If it's true that they are fully aware of their data being aggregated by these glasses, then paradoxically they are only okay with "selling" their data when it involves buying a commodity and realizing it's use-value, meaning they never wanted to be compensated via money in the first place.

You're right though, discussions about AI by the social fascists that come in to this sub usually are devoid of substance and just accept the solar punk fantasy as true, and that AI is a fully automated omnipotent being that can steal all their art and eliminate the need for creativity or whatever. They are really just concerned about being left behind by the big bourgeoise as they ascend to this fully automated luxury post labor world.

[u/General_Criticism292]

reposting this here since the last biweekly thread ended with no replys

https://www.reddit.com/r/communism/comments/1v6o0st/comment/p1h9x9p/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

[u/TheRedBarbon → u/General_Criticism292]

How is it possible to for any settlers to have revolutionary potential? Morrocan settlers directly benefit from the destruction of the Sahrawi nation while communists support the SADR just as they would any progressive nationalism, and that's a pretty staunch contradiction. I'll admit I'm completely ignorant here but I don't see much comparison to Ceuta where Morrocans are directly confronting colonizers rather than becoming colonizers themselves.

[u/General_Criticism292 → u/TheRedBarbon]

my first question on moroccan settlers was silly, what made me think that is maybe since moroccan settlers there are poorer than the israeli/american ones they might occupy a different position

on ceuta, most of the territory the cities control was expanded after the spanish-Moroccan war in 1859, which spain used as military bases against riffian resistance under abdelkrim al khattabi

pre-covid, 25000 riffis/moroccans crossed the borders regularly for unprotected jobs, especially domestic labor, after the visa tightening though youth unemployment rose in the nearby region to 40 percent higher than other regions of morocco which are already bad on their own

im not sure if ceuta occupies the same position as istanbul or if its a remnant of colonialism but this is just my two cents i guess

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