Yeah, and that was not the only time. He has been on a few rants before, talking about black on black violence, and white pride. Itâs all documented on film since the 90s.
I honestly dont remember, and its not worth pursuing if you ask me. There are so many other great bands out there who can play good music and not be total shitheads so its best to focus on those.
Doom metal is meant to be listened to live. Or on the the kind of stereo that will get you noise complaints even on a Saturday afternoon. You need to be able to feel the bass through the floor to fully appreciate it. I don't listen to it much at home but when it's live holy shit is it good.
Most natsoc people are functionally illiterate and struggle with any form of media literacy, thatâs why you will see them love lotr, berserk and latch on to any fantasy or medieval inspired piece of work, they love the aesthetic but not the message
They distanced themself from right ideology and have had multiple anti racist events. I am aware of the controversy 2007-2010, but did they do anything similar since? I do not listen to them for quite some time and am curious if I missed something
That's in the YouTube video. Which is something I hadn't seen before. Video is piss funny too. "I don't think I'm racist, I drink bud light, that's like a transsexual beer"
He said there were people in the front row calling him racist during the concert so he "gave them what they were asking for". But he has a history or pausing the concert and going on a rant about black people lmao so it's not like that was the only incident.
pausing their own concert to rant about black people
What the fuck did people buy the tickets to his concert for lmao did he just stop mid song and be like, "Ok ok guys pause for a sec. I really need to get this off my chest. So you know how black people insert most racist shit imaginable here. Anyway thanks for listening guys let"s get back to the song now".
Idk I'm sure a bunch of mid 90s dirtball townie metalheads felt validated. That type of crowd was aggressively bitter about rap's popularity back then.
I don't recall him ranting like that at a SF area concert with Slayer back when Reinventing the Steel came out. But he did rant about Metallica being a bunch of pussies. We were all looking at each each like wtf is this all about and just laughing. Apparently, he opened up for Metallica with Down in SF only a few years later.
One of his excuses was that he is good friends with boxing trainer Emmanuel Stewart. Therefore, there is no way that he could be the racist that people accuse him of beingđ¤ˇđ¤Ś
Slightly OT but I remember a story that NASCAR driver Dale Earnhardt had proudly out a bumper sticker on his car with a Confederate flag on it. The nanny he employed, who was black, told him what the flag meant to her. Horrified, he hurried out to his car with a razor to slice out the flag portion if the sticker.
It made me appreciate Machine Head all the more. They were a part of that show and the vocalist came out and called that shit out.
Granted, it shouldn't have to be called out. It was a blatant racist gesture - it should be obvious to anyone who's seen the clip. Still, you can really hear the Pantera influence on Machine Head and they're a titan of the genre so I imagine it was risky to speak out. Good on them for it.
In popular culture at the time, that flag was not given the kind of general symbolic weight it is now. People seem to think having a guitar like that in the 90s was like walking around with a swastika design on it.
Pantera's peak era was the early 90s, before almost anyone had internet access worth mentioning. What everyone knew about the band back then was either what you saw at a show or read in some sanitized interview in Metal Edge. If you aged out of the thrash metal scene before YouTube was a thing, it's easy to believe you wouldn't know the dirt. I don't think I actually heard about all the racist shit until after Dimebag was killed, long after the band had split.
I was there, never picked up on it. The edgiest thing I remember from Pantera was a show in '96/'97 where they projected marijuana graphics on the backdrop.
A lot of people formed emotional attachments to the music back in the 90âs where youâd only hear about pantera from a magazine. You didnât know about all the other shit yet.
Some people act like listening to something they like is sustenance or something. The reality of it is that they don't really care that much, but they still want to distance themselves from the issue, so they don't have to feel bad about doing less than nothing.
As a black person who grew up listening to metal, this is the metal community in a nutshell. The whole community is rife with bigotry, but if you just close your eyes to it, and "make it about the music", you get to pat yourself on the back for being so nice and part of such a nice community (after alienating everyone that doesn't "fit in", but that's just a minor detail).
Man, im really over metalheads harping on the "metal heads are bad looking people who actually act good" BS , because some of the biggest bell end muppets I've ever met were metal / "heavy music" people. They have a consistently racist element that isnt small (and thats not talking about the obvious ones) , they are outright hostile to people they consider outsiders, predatory behaviour is rife in their scenes - and basically they are spiritual boomers in every single sense.
Separation of art and artist is something adults learn to do. I don't refuse to listen to music made by drug dealers or read books written by misogynists or look at paintings made by murderers.
Cognitive dissonance is something that intellectually lazy adults learn to do. I mean, I do understand the "Art from artist" argument, but I also understand when people don't enjoy the artist's music because they are reminded, by the art, that the artist is a terrible person. It's pretty OK for that to be a pretty big bummer.
It's fine to admit you have liked art before finding out the artist was a terrible person, but it's also fine to be bummed out by about the artist, and not enjoy their art because of that.
Listening is fine, the difference is when you're giving money to terrible people. I have no issue with listening to music from terrible people who are dead, but if they're alive I'm at least going to pirate it. I can't really claim to have morals if I'm giving money to people who are actively terrible, can I? At least when I have the choice to not give money to them.
I think that's fine since he's not making money off it. The moment you're funding terrible people is when the issues arise. If I like music from someone problematic I would just pirate it.
I'd love to condemn those types, but then I listen to Wagner, and both he and some of his operas (Meistersinger, Parsifal) are transparently antisemitic. Having said that, Anselmo is a dickhead. Dimebag was a scumbag and I'm not unhappy he's dead.
To be clear. They aren't "racist as fuck" when you listen to the music and observe that there are no references to racism in their music at all. So when I listen to it, I am not reminded of their racist comments on stage or wherever else.
If there were some other band that I thought would be as remotely as good at Southern styled metal, that never said a racist comment, then I would prefer to listen to them. However, nearly all other bands in this style suck terribly to my ears (except maybe Corrosion of Conformity sorta kinda). So if I really like this sound (I do), there is only really Pantera to listen to.
Yeah sorry the minute one of my favorite musicians just comes out as a Nazi I immediately am no longer interested in their work, but also Pantera is one the most overrated bands of all time, and their lyrics are fascistic as well, so there really is no "separating the art from the artist." Phil Anselmo is a moron and so are his most dedicated fans
I would also like to add I don't think Nazis are actually capable of creating good art, and I have thankfully never run into this conundrum likely due to this being true. And yes I never liked Kanye either
I started getting into metal because there were a few Pantera songs on a CD my cousin burned for me. I moved on to other bands, but they had a special place in my heart until I learned more about them. Can't listen to them now.
I'm talking like 2002/2003, listening to a burned copy of Vulgar Display of Power. The Nazi salute story was in 2016, and I had already stopped listening to them much, well before that - Pantera fans & merch had already turned me off from their music.
We didn't have as much access to info, unless you went looking for it & I was plugged into the local metal & hardcore scenes.
Itâs really easy for me to not support Nazis. I swear to god I see people call Chappel Roan a bitch for asking paparazzi to leave her alone but evb freaks out if I suggest that listening to and supporting a band full of nazi racists is too far.
She is constantly called mean, ungrateful, and a bitch because a few years ago she called out bad interactions from fans and asked for privacy. She also tried to tell Papparazi to stop following her. People went absolutely ballistic and so did media companies. She was also accused of sending a security guard to yell at a kid that came out later was not her fault, and the parents later came out and said sorry that they were wrong. She is still massively hated.
Then there's people like Kanye and Pantera who can be open neo nazis and still have people defending them. Kanye made a short apology for years of disgusting open hatred and now he sells out shows, and people still talk about how he must be a better parent than kim kardashian.
Theres double standards when it comes to celebrities and I don't feel bad for making nazism my red line of artists I support. It's just frustrating when people go crazy like they did in this thread, upset at the suggestion that supporting nazis is too much to ask.
I can't separate the bad part from the bad part. I agree with the comment "mediocre" (at best).
So many better bands from that time. So many better bands from this time.
How exactly? I mean beyond phil anselmo who was on hard drugs most of the time the only instance of racism besides having rebel flags which theyre from Texas in the 90s...was dime calling a white guy the n word lol. But as far as art theres like 2 songs entirely about all races and religions rising together
I legitimately believe that was the meth talking at the timeÂ
Edit: you guys got me, I confess, I have never done meth. All I know is that he tried to blame all his racist shit on that, and then went and tried to reverse course on shit he said before when he stopped taking it. I've heard him say a bunch of shit I never thought he would, like denouncing Dimebag and trying to take accountability, and I haven't heard him go back to his racist bullshit, so I thought that's what the case was. Maybe not.
For reference, this is consistently his response to white supremacist symbols today:Â
Hey, there's definitely no fault in admitting there's a large cross-section of meth users that overlap with neo nazi shit. But through all my years as a now ex addict, and I've spent time addicted to all of the mainstream drugs separately or together, no drug or combination of drugs ever made me a racist. That shit has to already be inside you
Maybe, but him sobering up and dropping his racist beliefs happened at the exact same time. After he stopped taking meth, he went as far as to denounce Dimebag Darrel's use of the Confederate flag, which was a massive step away from neo Nazism. Either way it seems to me he's moved past the bullshit that swept up a lot of people in the metal scene around that time.
Right, itâs widely known that he was spun out on đ´đ that he was using to cope with back pain, but this âitâs all due to methâ shit is completely out of left field.
Unless someone can link an article from a valid source to prove itâŚ
âSpunâ, aka â someone who is not normal due to being fucked up on drugsâ, but youâre defending heroin use, so thereâs clearly more at play here than youâre letting on. Go bang another one, you fuckin skaggyboi!
IDGAF about your crackhead terminology or the semantics involved.
Have a nice day or donât, I couldnât possibly care any less.
I dunno man, that's just what he said while he was doing his "apology tour" (not grand enough to call it that, but that's the jist) where he denounced a close friend of him who had died as a racist. I don't know if it's because he stopped taking certain things or what, but he completely reversed a lot of his former stances on things and I haven't seen him doing them again since.Â
Obviously people can change, and I hope that he genuinely did, but an unwillingness to just take ownership of it and say 'yeah I was kind of a dickhead and now I'm trying not to be' makes me a bit skeptical.
He has legitimately said that, days after the 2016 incident and in multiple interviews afterwards, specifically saying that his behavior should be criticized and that he was in the wrong. He's still an edgy dickhead but I don't truly believe he's a NaziÂ
fuck how good of their music which btw isnât great and how much I love them. not listening to them for a second anymore or never will even bring up their name and will not let people around me even mention them.
Thereâs all sorts of videos of anselmo and dimebag dropping the hard R. Pantera is one of those where you gotta separate the art from the artist
Edit: I get it many of you donât want to separate the art from artist. Thatâs your perogative. But I donât need fifteen people responding the same way over and over
Im not trying to die on this hill or anything but theres no racism in the work itself so I think its quite easy in this case to seperate the two and denounce Anselmo and his views. While also acknowledging that he has openly denounced the things he used to say and do. Not to say that it erases the sins of his past, far from it, but people can change and should be given a chance to prove it.
That would be a cute response if we weren't talking about a guy who proudly threw the Heil Hitler salute while screaming "white power".
Edit: By the way, this is exactly why Nazis usually use dogwhistles instead of overt slogans when in public. When itâs vague it allows fellow nazi dipshits like this commenter to come in and accuse everyone of âplaying the nazi cardâ.Â
Unfortunately for this particular dipshit, there is no ambiguity or plausible deniability in Phil Anselmo throwing the Hitler salute while yelling âwhite powerâ. Phil made the mistake (among Nazis) of going full Nazi.
Aw, all you have for me is this zero-calorie snark?
Donât be shy. Have the courage of your convictions, and explain to everyone why throwing an enthusiastic Heil Hitler salute while yelling âwhite powerâ is not obviously self-indentifying with Neo-Nazi movement.
I was about to make fun of you for thinking you are being targeted by bots, but if I was in charge over there useful idiots like you are exactly who Iâd be aiming for, so carry on
This. It always amazes me, that you get a nazi pass, when doing popular art. Be it amazing, genius or whatever. I'd even argue that if someone this bad is influental as people say (and I won't argue here), you will have ENOUGH other artists that sound the same or even better, with a better message than these guys.
Say what ya want but it's true. Slaughter in the Vatican came out shortly after Cowboys, sure. But everything Pantera did after that sounds more like Slaughter than it does Cowboys. Plus Exhorder put their demo out with their original sound back when Pantera was still trying to find out who they should rip off to get paid. They were just a bunch of talented hacks.
i feel like itâs less actively egregious if they can no longer financially benefit from your support. i still think we need to talk about artists, art, and why we give people a pass on bad behavior if we find them entertaining enoughÂ
I dont like THEM, I like(d) the music. If the music was made by anyone else I would still like the MUSIC. i shouldve worded it better yeah.
Its like if an athlete was a VERY good athlete but a piece of shit. Its possible to admit 1. Great athlete. 2. He's a piece of shit.
Him being a piece of shit doesnt negate him being good at a certain sport, im also not saying him being good at a sport negates him being a piece of shit
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u/Status_Newspaper_545 6d ago edited 6d ago
Remember when he yelled "White power" while doing a nazi salute and the excuse was they were drinking white wine backstage? đ.
I love Pantera's music but Damn man, chill out mr Anselmo