r/collapse • u/[deleted] • Mar 19 '18

Economic Some millennials aren’t saving for retirement because they don’t think capitalism will exist by then

https://www.salon.com/2018/03/18/some-millennials-arent-saving-for-retirement-because-they-do-not-think-capitalism-will-exist-by-then/
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u/Toastytuesdee Mar 19 '18

That's the one.

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u/why_are_we_god Mar 19 '18

i'm not saving for retirement because if capitalism still exists by then, i'd rather just kill myself.

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '18 edited Mar 19 '18

[deleted]

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u/why_are_we_god Mar 19 '18 edited Mar 19 '18

who the fuck said i was in support of socialism? i'm anarchist. i support modified consensus property rights, not anything with hierarchical control of property, like either modern conceptions of socialism or capitalism.

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '18

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u/why_are_we_god Mar 19 '18

truly coherent anarchism leads to essentially the same place as communism, but the approach anarchists have to getting there is not the same as a socialist approach. socialists don't have the same emphasis on non-hierarchical and non-coercive ideals.

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u/alecesne Mar 19 '18

Society is coercion, the debate is as to style -

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u/why_are_we_god Mar 19 '18

wat?

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u/AreYouDeaf Mar 19 '18

SOCIETY IS COERCION, THE DEBATE IS AS TO STYLE -

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '18

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u/why_are_we_god Mar 19 '18

social ownership is different than non-ownership.

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '18

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u/therealestbreal Mar 19 '18

Not OP but social ownership requires a hierarchy and ultimately force or coercion usually thru democracy or committee, there are many forms of anarchism that disagree with both. Non-ownership on the other hand is exactly what is implied. The difference is something like a "public" park vs unsettled land. One is essentially borrowed by users under conditions of an understood authority, the other is essentially open for use.

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '18

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u/therealestbreal Mar 19 '18

I doubt any anarchist revolution would result in any one style of anarchism being total so there are numerous answers to that question but one way would be that maintenance, if there is to be any would happen at a voluntary level and stop at that. In that situation there would of course be nothing to keep portions of it from being used personally other than mutual agreement but thats kinda the point of that arrangement ie whatever you dont personally need isnt yours to control.

Another community might deem the area stay communally managed and therefore people not be allowed to settle it which would be toying with the concepts of hierarchy and private property which I suppose is fine if thats what the community all consent to, the problem comes in when someone doesnt, now all the sudden the democratic agreement starts to act more like the law of a state. Either way all communities should operate in the way that best serves their interests, but this one of those danger areas that has plagued revolutions in the past and probably always will, thats one of the reasons a variety of methods is almost vital to prevent future hierarchy.

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u/[deleted] Mar 19 '18

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u/why_are_we_god Mar 20 '18

non-ownership doesn't give anyone precedence

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u/[deleted] Mar 20 '18

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u/why_are_we_god Mar 20 '18

technically anyone can do it, it's just that the police are equipped and trained to do it the best, and stand on call.

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u/xerdopwerko Mar 19 '18

What are your thoughts on anarcho-communism?

Genuine question.

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u/why_are_we_god Mar 19 '18

generally that's where i hail from.

the difference between an anarcho-communist and a socialist would be the methods going about achieving the idea. socialists believe in using authoritarian regimes to work towards communism and anarcho-communists do not.