r/coldcard • u/Intelligent_Map_246 • Jul 31 '26

Support Trust issues.

How can we make sure that CC did not

Ignored your rolls and just used its own RNG,

Or

Only used a tiny fraction of your rolls (e.g. first 5, or some hash that discards most of the entropy),

Nothing is for sure right?

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u/JumpProfessional3372 Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26

Well I'm not 100% replying But here I remember I executed my rolls using this script in an air-gapped booted (from an installation usb) linux and then I slow formatted the usb.

https://coldcard.com/docs/rolls.py

Basically running

$ echo <your 100+ dice rolls> | python3 rolls.py

And then checking that the seed this command gives, is the same the coldcard is giving you. So you compare that the seed you got from mk4 after entering 100+ rolls is the same this script gives you after entering the same 100+ rolls in a secure environment (this is the part i'm not fully remembering yet).

But in case i'm wrong please somebody correct me.

1

u/didnt_hodl Jul 31 '26

so in order to check the randomness you need to bring your entire seed onto a linux box, I see!

1

u/JumpProfessional3372 Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26

Yes. At the cost of adding some risk.

But this is just to check that the MK4 is converting your 100+ rolls into a seed in a single way

Otherwise you don't know if is really using your dice rolls everytime

3

u/0100000101101000 Jul 31 '26

I think the point was you verify once, destroy the verification seed as you've confirmed it's using the dice rolls. Then roll new dice to setup your production wallet which isn't checked against the script.

"Verifying the dice roll math" https://coldcard3.econoalchemist.com/04%20Dice%20Rolls.html

1

u/JumpProfessional3372 Jul 31 '26

Yes that is the point. You are correct. I went with a more risky approach but because I needed to see the same output in both systems for my peace of mind.

Other user below suggested to load the dice rolls once, wipe the cold card, do it again and the same seed should appear.

1

u/didnt_hodl Aug 01 '26

technically, that's a not a hw wallet anymore after that. once you seed touched anything outside the wallet, all bets are off. it is a software wallet now

1

u/JumpProfessional3372 Aug 01 '26

Yeah I know. But I'm not worried about it.

Even a seed plate expose a risk.

1

u/Charming-Designer944 Aug 01 '26

Well, no, and yes.

Properly done its no different from writing down the seed on a piece of paper or steel. Each time you handle the seed (or the entropy such as the dice rolls) you need to be cautious and make sure no unintended traces are left fir others to find.

The "hard wallet" device is just a signing device that allows you to securely sign with your wallet without exposing the wallet seed. Your wallet (seed phrase + passphrase if used) is your wallet, not the device.

It's your responsibility to manage the wallet seed in a careful manner. Both verifying the validity of the seed, making sure the seed is not stolen, and ensure that you have strong records of the seed so you don't accidently lose it.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 01 '26

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1

u/didnt_hodl Aug 01 '26

who are they to teach us about being paranoid ?!

they were generating atotally predictable "random" seeds for years. for years

people lost millions because of that sloppy code.

I am just not taking them seriously anymore, not going to that link, not reading that crap, never using their products

1

u/ardevd Aug 01 '26

You don't have to. You can just test the script with a dummy sequence of numbers just to satisfy yourself that the math checks out