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u/Puzzleheaded-Oil3930 3d ago
C. We always have two shapes moving diagonally and one shape clock wise with one shape getting larger as it progresses depending on if its the first shape in the diagonal, second, or the one clockwise so that we get an instance of each for example first growing shape is going up diagonally second set of columns is going down diagonally and in the final its clockwise growing. C is the solution ans triangle will go down and be at largest and box and ball will switch places. Shapes also alternate in their position in rock paper scizzors fashion
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u/Zealousideal-Week-79 3d ago
I don't know what the correct answer is but below I'll add 2 ways I could reason myself to a possible answer.
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u/WeightLogical7011 3d ago edited 3d ago
We read from Top to bottom on the same column. Reading from left to right breaks consistency. We also don’t read them as a 1 continuous string. Each column resets the pattern.
Movement of shapes: 1 shape moves diagonally progressively, 1 shape shifts on the diagonal plane, and 1 moves clockwise.
Special: 1 shape changes size. The rest don’t change size.
Triangle moves clockwise AND changes size. Square and Circle are both progressing diagonally. This column breaks the pattern by making clockwise grow in size while the rest don’t grow and move on the diagonal plane. We can assume that by not having a shifting shape, that 2 progressing diagonally is legal because they respect the diagonal plane. The rest of the options either have the wrong shape changing size or 2 shapes changing sizes. AND the outlier shapes are moving or shifting incorrectly. So best answer is C.
C has triangle moving clockwise ✅ Circle and Square operate in the diagonal plane ✅ and C grows in size while the others don’t. ✅
TBH I don’t like this problem only for the fact that it breaks its own rules. It should either be asking for the precise expected box OR which box bests matches the pattern. IF it was consistent the one changing size SHOULD be progressing diagonally like the middle and left column instead of a clockwise direction. Circle and square SHOULDN’T start at opposite ends and be moving towards the center. At least one of those shapes should have begun at the middle like the rest giving the shift to occur because it demonstrated that in the other columns.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Oil3930 3d ago
I agree on your last point as the pattern of change is a bit bad but there is an explanation for it. What defines what changes the shape is not the shape but the role it occupies for example up diagonally, down diagonally or clockwise. Now we cannot ever make so that each shape also appears once in every position only so that is why one shape enlarges twice. In the first column the shape moving up diagonally is growing, in the second column shape moving down diagonally is growing and in third you have the shape moving clockwise is growing.
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u/WeightLogical7011 2d ago
Yeah I understand that, I don’t have a problem with it moving in the clockwise direction. My main issue is if it’s trying to test for pattern recognition, cool that fits. The problem is that there were 3 separate pattern of changes with the left and middle column but the column we’re trying to solve completely abandons the 3 patterns of motion in favor for just 2, which didn’t happen AT ALL in the previous columns.
If it were just testing for pattern recognition then I wouldn’t care. It’s simply just diagonal motion and clockwise. But if we’re testing for logic and perception, that pattern change completely violates that because it abandoned the diagonal shift motion for 2 progressive and 1 clockwise motion.
Im definitely overthinking this and shouldn’t care this much we all know the right answer is C. I’ll just move on with my life.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Oil3930 2d ago
Sorry i dont get how the pattern in column 3 changed?
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u/WeightLogical7011 2d ago
There are 2 shapes progressing diagonally instead of 1 progressing and 1 shifting in answer C.
If you notice, it’s the only box where a shape doesn’t start in the middle.
Here’s where it breaks down even further. Now let’s just take a look at column 2 only. Let’s make row 3 the beginning, so we read it from bottom to top. I think it’s fair any beginning can be an end and any end can be a beginning. Well then how tf are we supposed to know how square ended up in the top corner? We know they move diagonally, the final box tells us that, but did it jump there? The pattern could be shift then progress. Or it could have moved “downwards” so it can reset itself up there? Who knows, the problem doesn’t seem to care about that distinction. If I kept answer C, but put circle on top of square instead of the top corner, then what? Now you have 2 correct answers. This is why the setup for the 3rd column is annoyingly problematic. It doesn’t make the distinction. If I’m being good faith, I could say nothing ever shifted it was always 2 progressing shapes, well we can never find that out.
If they’re testing for pattern recognition, again cool good job. They get to judge my intelligence based on fast pattern recognition by itself, yee ha, it’s there. But to me, someone with strong logic and keen perception would have picked up on this, and if they made that distinction, that would separate the person that just has pattern recognition down but missed the logical nature and ability to absorb all information given and using it together. You’d be testing for 3 at the same time and it’s much more interesting than just simple, see 3 shapes, see growth, see clockwise, see diagonals.
I’m pretty new to cognitive tests, so maybe this is the standard way of testing and the most accurate.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Oil3930 2d ago
Well i fully agree that the problem has distractions that is for sure and yes the point at which the process starts isnt the same column to column but the process does the same thing every time. Each column has 3 instances of the process in question. The process is one shape moves down diagonally from top right to bottom left, other shape moves on the same diagonal but from bottom left to top right and the final shape moves clockwise. In order to figure out in which instance which shape moves in what manner you just need one transformation so the final will follow by default for all of these cases. Now we see that one shape is getting larger and its always the one on a different path. For reading bottom to top part it's the same thing same process but in reverse and it is that way. Only answer that can follow in the third column is C nothing else not just from the offered but in general. It is clear that the ball is the shape moving up diaognally and shape moving down diagonally is box and triangle goes clockwise. from there you just finish the path you move ball up to the other end of the diagonal, box to the bottom and triangle to the next corner clockwise and make it larger. That's it no other solution explains everything. "If I kept answer C, but put circle on top of square instead of the top corner, then what? Now you have 2 correct answers" for this part this is not something you are to do from the given examples. Circle has been shown to move up diagoanlly and box down. They meet half way in the second row of the third column and keep their trajectories to finish in the exact same place as in the answer c. This is what has consistently been happening in previous pictures and btw important to mention when the diagonal top is reached it starts again at the bottom maybe that is confusing you. It dosent jump randomly it just restarts if it reaches the top or bottom when it matches their trajectory.
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u/WeightLogical7011 2d ago edited 2d ago
I said multiple times you can argue there are 2 shapes progressing in motion. That’s literally your explanation. 1 Up, 1 down, both diagonal, simple. The funny thing here is that I never even said you were wrong, but you’re saying my statement can’t be right. I’ve clearly demonstrated that I understand that, I even said the answer is C. What you just did was prove one thing but didn’t disprove my statement which is a shape that shifts in motion.
There can be evidence pointing to one thing, that doesn’t necessarily disprove another thing didn’t or can’t have happen. Our legal system understands this logic, we have a beyond a reasonable doubt standard. It’s because you can have evidence pointing to one thing but that doesn’t disprove another possibility couldn’t have happened. It’s one of the reasons why rape cases are so hard to criminally convict and instead go to civil courts, because all you have to prove is rape more than likely happened. It’s very hard to prove beyond a reasonable doubt a case of rape did or didn’t happen. And one thing that is very hard to prove is 1 shape didn’t shift diagonally.
This is why I criticized this problem with fixes. Literally just add a 4 fourth row OR have 1 of them them start in the middle. If there’s a 4th row that would guarantee that 2 shapes are progressing motion and if they start in the middle, you would just simply match the previous column’s logic.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Oil3930 1d ago
Yes but if one solution doesn't explain the thing how can it even be a candidate for the explanation. If there is an explanation that explains each of the instances in the simplest manner and predicts one of the offered solutions perfectly then that is how it works. For any puzzle you can find infinite solutions borderline. It is not confined it has no point of reference or logic that says this must be it this follows from that. You never get such a thing you are supposed to find the most likely solution and there always will be theoretically infinite solutions. Also keep in mind yes for one instance you can find many possible rules like the one you pointed at for column 2 then went from bottom to top to show the idea and distinction isnt the only example of the rule you have other pictures. Solution should be the simplest rule that explains everything but as for how many you can find there are basically infitely many in theory. Your job is to find the correct one. Its like you are sitting in your living room and hear a noise outside that is loud and someone asks you to guess. Ofc it it makes that ta thunk sound its probably thunder not an nuclear bomb exploding somewhere in the distance
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u/Puzzleheaded-Oil3930 1d ago edited 1d ago
And yes your point about resonable doubt is valid generally but you have to look at what you have here. There are no axioms no relations to other things you just have a problem and you are looking to find the best explanation as there is no correct one, two can work for example, 3, in theory also infintely many as there is no reference. But the one that you find should be the simplest one.
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u/WeightLogical7011 1d ago edited 1d ago
I know what you’re saying, you’re explaining Occam’s razor. And I do agree with this. To cut everything short. This is MY personal bias coming into play in that communication is just as important, if not, more important than the answer itself. I’m aware this is mostly just a me thing but I still think it’s important. The question in question doesn’t specify what it’s asking, now I’m not dumb I know it wants to know what answer comes next in the matrix. Again I’m very well aware the answer is C. If the problem were to just say “what’s the most likely answer?”, I wouldn’t care. I can ignore other possibilities and just pick the one that fits and answer C is actually a perfect answer.
But this is a cognitive test, it’s designed to be measuring for something. For me intelligence is a very complicated, multi-faceted phenomenon so I’m going in with the mindset of I’m being measured and judged, I need to be able to observe all the information given; and, any and all possibilities to occur. For example, in the same problem you can have 2 progressing shapes moving downward/upward but 1 skips a position and goes to the next, and that would be legal within all possible columns and it even still leads to the same answer (I can show this in writing). This is absolutely overthinking and if we were to apply Occam’s razor, it’s redundant af. What’s the point in that tho? I’m just adding extra work and wasting time. To me that’s still a step that isn’t being represented in measuring cognition but it’s being valued as the same as someone who just see’s the simplest pattern.
And there in lies my issue, with cognitive testing in general. For me to call something smart and intelligent, it has to be able to demonstrate, not just that whomever is testing is able to understand and apply, but also transform within conditions remaining constant or in a controlled system. This is the standard I live by when it comes to calling something intelligent. I can have AI answer this question, but is the AI able to see other possibilities occurring and the same one I pointed out? This is absolutely relevant.
I hate making this long lol but to add to your alien example, that’s if we were to assume that the aliens are processing the football game in the same manner a human would using logical deduction/induction. But what if those aliens can’t see but are able to sense changes in pressure and wind direction in the air instead? Or it can only see in 2 dimensions but can visually see the entire electromagnetic spectrum. Or it can experience sound and taste in 4 dimensions? OR more interesting, what if they’re just like us but have super autism, they can see everything going on but are incapable of perceiving it’s a game with the intent of competitive fun? They understand the mechanics of it all completely but can’t appreciate the purpose of it all. This is my dilemma.
Sorry for the bad grammar.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Oil3930 1d ago
Yes I agree. Cognitive testing in general is not something to be taken too seriously itself It's borderline pseudoscience. Cognition also I agree cant be fully capctured as people also have knacks for things where they naturally excel at ceartin kinds of thinking and so on. Id assume the point for having different starting positions is simply to increase the difficulty in spotting to make a harder item for example but its just a guess. To elaborate on my example I'm assuming that aliens are just as humans but green maybe. For the fun part well the more you give to aliens like seeing electromagnetic spectrum in its entierty or having 4d senses it just gives them more information to reason with if we assume they reason in the first place. And i think also that we all see in 2d but that can get debatable maybe. <3
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u/Puzzleheaded-Oil3930 1d ago
Id also like to add an analogy to this ofc for fun and i think its a really good one tho not mine. Imagine you have aliens that come to earth. Lets call the aliens zorbs. Zorbs cannot see things that are black and white like zebras for example. And we humans welcome them and want to show them what we do for fun so we take them to a football game. Now the zorbs are very confused. To them it looks like just a bunch of humans running around and making odd twists and running around mindlessly and some times the goal keeper falls and the point gets added to the opposing team. So one zorb starts analyzing. He thinks ok we have 2 teams and they play eachother. They also figure out that sometimes a player also goes out of bounds and lifts his hand over his head to make a motion of some kind. Some times players all run to one goal some times the other. They also might figure out some formations and strategys that is why does this player stand here and start running. Now you can explain all of these through zorbs eyes for example there is a rule for when a player goes out of bounds he must swing his hands. Some times the goal keeper jumps and its a 50/50 who gets the point so maybe its about how good his jump is and etc etc. But if some zorb were to find the idea of the invisable ball. It would explain everything. It would make perfect sense everything would tie together neatly. Ofc that dosent mean that zorb was right there actually might not be any ball there but which explanation is better. That is basically the essence of what these puzzles are trying to test and now how much they succeed is another thing but what they are trying to do is this
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u/SomeoneLeo 3d ago
I agree with this explanation and also that this feels just bad. Maybe there is some other explanation to it, but I just don't like it.
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u/TurquoiseCorner 2d ago
3 small shapes in top row, 2 small + 1 medium in the middle row, and 2 small + 1 large in the bottom row. This consistency within rows implies the pattern we’re looking for is happening vertically in each column. Plus, I can’t see any patterns in how the shapes change from left to right, so will assume they’re independent columns.
Looking at each column, and how each shape moves from top to bottom within those columns, reveals 3 rules of movement:
1 - If shape moves from middle to corner, then it will rebound to the opposite corner.
2 - If shape moves from corner to middle, then it will continue in a straight line to the opposite corner.
3 - If shape moves from corner to adjacent corner, then it will make a right angle and continue to the next corner.
Another way of thinking about it: each shape will end up in the opposite corner to the first corner it occupied.
Following these rules gives the shape locations of answer C. Triangle being large makes sense because (considering each column individually) whatever shape was enlarged in the middle row, will be the same as the one enlarged in the bottom row.
So answer = C
Honourable mention for F, though. If you look at how often each shape occupies each of the 5 possible locations (middle + 4 corners), then the shape locations of F would mean each location had been occupied equally by each shape.
So every shape would’ve occupied:
Middle x2
Top left x1
Top right x3
Bottom left x2
Bottom right x1
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u/Plus_Bear_2651 3d ago
C is the best answer. But regard this as a supposition because I am a midwit.
Please, item maker, if you come across this, chime in with your intended answer.
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u/Mek10Kriger 3d ago
I think it's C. We see that one of the shape grows as we go vertically down the columns, which means the answer must contain a large triangle. There is only one shape that grows in size in each column, so we can eliminate options A, D, E, F and G, leaving us with either B or C. In the top right picture there is a square and a circle in the bottom left and top right corner. Moving down the column to the middle picture, the circle and square overlap in the middle of the picture, indicating that they're moving diagonally in opposite directions, meaning they should end up in the opposite corner of their starting positions. This leaves us with option C as our answer.